Many thanks for your donations and for your support!
Here are the news for this month.
Romeo
Debian releases (which Mint and Ubuntu are based on) are named after toys from the movie Toy Story. In this movie there’s a child who breaks toys. His name is Sid. Debian named its unstable release after him. Sid breaks toys, Sid breaks Debian, this is where the unstable software goes.
Mint releases are given a girl name. Each release has her Romeo which can potentially break her heart. Romeo is where the unstable software goes.
Unstable Mint releases are not available to the public until they reach BETA. For instance right now you can’t download Mint 21.3. It doesn’t even have a name yet. To push unstable software and make it available to alpha-testers we don’t use a release, we use a repository component.
In the Mint repositories, for any release, you’ll find stable components (main, upstream, import, backport), and the unstable component: romeo.
You can enable this component in the Software Sources. Of course it’s not recommended unless you want to help us test unstable software, at the risk of experiencing regressions and possible package conflicts.
In the past Romeo was used by the development team to quickly test packages. Unstable packages were put there for just a few hours, sometimes even just a few minutes.
Going forward we’ll use Romeo to push new features and the changes we’re working on in preparation for the next release. This will allow alpha-testers to run unstable versions of Cinnamon, Xapp, Mint tools etc.. without having to compile anything. It will also replace our unstable PPA.
Hypnotix
New features were added to Hypnotix, the TV viewer application, in preparation for the Linux Mint 21.3 release this Christmas.
Channels will be able to be saved as favorites.
Your favorite channels will be independent of their provider. This will allow you to have all your favorites in one place, even if they come from multiple TV providers.
Another important change was made. Under the hood, Hypnotix uses libmpv which itself relies on yt-dlp to stream Youtube channels. Although the upstream yt-dlp project is quick to react to Youtube changes when they break compatibility, the yt-dlp system package (whether it’s in Debian or Ubuntu) isn’t updated as often.
To ensure Youtube channels continue to work when the yt-dlp package is outdated we added the ability for Hypnotix to download and update its own local version of yt-dlp.
Note that for security reasons updates are triggered manually and the local version of yt-dlp only gets used by Hypnotix (it does not replace the system version for other applications).
Wayland
The work started on Wayland. As mentioned earlier this year, this was identified as one of the major challenges our project had to tackle in the mid to long term. Priority had been given to ISO tools and Secureboot over new features for 21.3 already, we felt it was time to invest some resources into Wayland as well.
Here’s Cinnamon running in Wayland:
We don’t expect it to replace Xorg as default any time soon, not in 21.3, not in 22.x, but we want to be ready all the same.
Cinnamon 6.0, planned for Mint 21.3 this year, will feature experimental Wayland support. You’ll be able to select between Cinnamon (the default session, running on Xorg) and Cinnamon on Wayland from the login screen.
The Wayland session won’t be as stable as the default one. It will lack features and it will come with its own limitations. We won’t recommend it but you’ll be able to give it a shot if you want to and it’ll be there for interested people if they want to give us feedback.
A board was set up to keep track of Wayland development. It’s available at https://trello.com/b/HHs01Pab/cinnamon-wayland.
As you can see on the board many things are missing or broken but we’ve got a functional session with window, applications and workspace management. We’re able to log in, run most apps, manipulate windows, workspaces, nemo, the panel etc..
We wanted to have a clear picture of the work involved, so we wanted to start now. In terms of timing we don’t think we need Wayland support to be fully ready (i.e. to be a better Cinnamon option for most people) before 2026 (Mint 23.x). That leaves us 2 years to identify and to fix all the issues. It’s something we’ll continue to work on. Whenever it happens, assuming it does, we’ll consider switching defaults. We’ll use the best tools to do the job and provide the best experience. Today that means Xorg. Tomorrow it might mean Wayland. We’ll be ready and compatible with both.
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It’s nice to hear those updates on the unstable Romeo and the Wayland integration, keep up with the good work!
Hmm. Maybe should keep Xwayland installed for backward compatibility for maintaining old program running X11 only. 🤔
Excellent news, looking forward to December already. I guess the talk of Wayland (in the future) will surprise more than a few 🙂
I’m actually relieved to see the Mint dev team officially working on it. I knew this distro would move later than others and that’s expected and fine, but for a while the seeming silence about it was unnerving.
I hope they keep this reasonably high in their work priorities until it’s done, because god knows when Ubuntu will wake up and say they won’t offer x.org anymore, or some other upstream move like that which will throw Mint into the lioncs den packaging and maintaining huge things in their own.
That plus Wayland IS the future, security-wise x.org is very problematic as it is, etc, etc
Y’all are the best. This project is just a never-ending series of good decisions.
Hi Mint team,
Congratulations to everyone on the team, the Linux Mint project is very important to me and to all users in the world!
I’m very happy with each new release of Linux Mint, I’m really rooting for the project’s success!!!
Linux Mint is the champion (^o^)//
Thank you for all the hard work! When Mint 21.3 rolls out, I intend to test Wayland and report bugs.
This is amazing! Thank you Mint Team for all the hard work that goes into making a system so good! And unlike others, you care about the users!
Is there a timeline for Wayland on Mate?
I don’t think so. Mate development has been pretty slow lately, atleast the public development. Hence Mate develompent is done by the Mate Desktop crew, which os more or less the same as Ubuntu MATE, it’s better to reach out to them directly.
https://github.com/mate-desktop
https://mate-desktop.org/
Or to the project lead https://fosstodon.org/@wimpy
Mate Desktop Wayland desktop roadmap is available here, there is no ETA but it’s only mate-control-center that’s left for Wayland support.
https://wiki.mate-desktop.org/developers-corner/wayland-meson/
Well no. You really want to talk with Wolfgang (raveit65) for current leadership.
Also when it comes to Wayland what matters here is mate-panel, mate-settings-daemon, mate-session and the WM (adapting marco, writing a new one from scratch, or communicating with a compositor like sway or other). This timeline doesn’t show an almost-ready, it shows that they didn’t start yet.
I didn’t mention this because I didn’t want to start a controversy but I need to make something clear: I no longer co-own the MATE project.
I said something Wolfgang Ulbrich disagreed with on September 12th. He removed me from the team that day. The next day he took away my ownership of the project on github.com (we were both trusted as co-owners along with Martin Wimpress and Stefano Karapetsas). We didn’t talk, he just did it. I took screenshots and saved logs of his actions and I moved on.
He probably thinks it’s OK to break trust and steal ownership based on merit and effort. It’s definitely justifiable. If it’s his point of view I can understand it. I haven’t been active in MATE for years now. I co-founded it, I worked a lot on it (and Vlad too), we were the first to distribute it and make an edition around it and eventually it just worked. And it didn’t just work, the consensus, even before the arrival and this takeover from Wolfgang, has often/always been that MATE should remain the same and change as little as possible, which is fair.
Sorry to hear that Clem – it does seem to be an extreme reaction to a difference of opinion. I’m assuming that your lack of access etc has no impact on MATE being in future releases of Linux Mint.
Hi Oswald,
No, it has no impact on the MATE edition. That would be childish. We wear different hats (upstream in Cinnamon, upstream cross-DE in XApp, downstream in Mint) with different audiences and distinct roles in mind. We’re well used to that.
When it comes to MATE itself, we don’t need to be involved in its development or even to have a good relationship with Raveit65. It would certainly help but it’s not a showstopper. If MATE has a bug we want to see fixed, we’ll just fix it ourselves in a patch. We’re already doing that here and there, we’ll just fix XDG desktop portal support going forward, it’s not a big deal.
What would impact MATE in future releases of Linux Mint would be a low adoption or a high cost. Its development/maintenance cost is very low and continues to goes down for us, which is a good thing. Its adoption is significantly lower than Cinnamon but we don’t have any real data on this at the moment other than torrent and server stats. This is not something we’d look at in the middle of a release series anyway. Also, some upstream developments could impact our choice of editions (Ubuntu moving towards Snap, Wayland set as a potential alternative to Xorg, GTK4/libAdwaita making it complicated to support theming etc..) so the timing isn’t right to make any this kind of decisions right now.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/matede/
this page gives you the option to Subscribe to the Mailing List for Mate Desktop Development… click on the “get updates” button and fill out the form.
Expect a Dozen or more emails Daily.
Very Active… and YOU will have the opportunity to comment on flaws you perceive and/or make Feature Requests.
It’s a friendly group.
It is always a pleasure to speak with raveit65 🙂
https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-media/issues/72
@clem: Dont worry. Just move on.
Where there is light, there is shadow. The bigger the light, the bigger the shadow. Linux Mint Project is going up and so the shadow rises and people who are unfavorable. Its with everything like this. Dont let it bother you. You are one a good way. We are standing with you.
Linux Mint as well as Cinnamon are great project. Godbless.
A spike of +30% of pateron in one month. From being pretty stable for years aroung 600 paterions with a slow growth then a sudden spike.What’s behind that?
I don’t know. It’s only on patreon also, we don’t see this bump in donations. It could be Patreon itself getting bigger.
Excellent news regarding Wayland and it is good to know that you are slowly looking to move forward (and even more now that the new base of Ubuntu 24.04 has been released, regarding Hypnotix it is also good to know that you are putting many options on par with other programs (I tested an early IPTV subscription I had and it worked better than other apps on Android), I also have other questions, if I may:
* Regarding Wayland, is there anything that need to be done on the Python code (or probably other languages) that you can guide in case that someone wants to develop something on GTK3 (or GTK4 in case the version 3 doesn’t support it at all) that need to be used on Wayland that may differ from Xorg?
* It may be too early to ask, but do you also have any plan regarding libadwaita and GNOME apps? Since many of them are being tied up even more to GNOME and not GTK, I’m guessing that it would be hard to not keep it in mind since the more we move on, more apps will become tied up to GNOME (which means less apps and features that you currently have that might have to be removed, or forked if you consider that you have enough manpower for that)
Hi Santiago,
Both GTK3 and GTK4 support Wayland. The only thing app developers need to worry about is to not rely on Xorg directly (Xlib calls, libraries..). Unless you’re dealing with input methods, window management or the display itself the app should just work.
Regarding libAdwaita and more generally “GNOME” apps (i.e. apps which goal isn’t to work or to integrate outside of GNOME) we need to make a decision. Either we persist in supporting theming (which is discouraged more and more by GNOME and by extension by GTK), either we react and take action. This can be a set of patches, additional forks or a different selection of apps. It’s not something we’re rushing into but it’s definitely on the agenda for Mint 22.
This is definitely a delicate subject… just how bad will those apps look on Mint if no further theming is possible?
What are the alternatives if Gnome apps are out of the picture due to this? Expanding the X-apps selection seems like an option, but not really for the full scope of gnome apps that exist…Is maintaining a fork of LibAdwaita feasible? Is QT back on the table (Mint KDE is dearly missed…)? Did you have a look into COSMIC (PopOS’s new thing)?
.. anything is feasible, it really depends on the cost and the ambition. So far we’ve been extremely strict with our default app selection. I.e. everything we ship by default needs to be well translated, to integrate well and to theme properly. When it comes to apps from the repositories or flatpaks, we try to support them as best as possible but if they lack translations or integrate poorly that’s not our responsibility.
Cosmic looks nice but developing on top of GNOME Shell is a maintenance nightmare. We did that with MGSE already. The latest version of Cinnamon can be shipped in any distribution. For us downstream this means shipping the same Cinnamon in LMDE and Mint. For us upstream this means welcoming contributions and feedback from a multitude of developers and users of other distributions. If we were to develop for a particular GNOME Shell version we’d lose all cross-distro compatibility and we’d be forced to adapt to new versions of Shell everytime we move base releases in Ubuntu/Debian.
Is the Wayland thing the reason for seeing Xwayland in LMDE6 for my nvidia card?
inxi -G
Graphics:
Device-1: NVIDIA GP108 [GeForce GT 1030] driver: nouveau v: kernel
Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.9 driver: X:
loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: nouveau gpu: nouveau
resolution: 1920×1080~60Hz
API: OpenGL v: 4.3 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: NV138
It doesn’t seem to make any difference over good old X
Hi Jeremy,
No, I think that’s just some additional info added to inxi. You’re running Xorg itself there (no XWayland).
“sorry for my English, I use a translator”, as always, this is great news, I am very excited about the present and the future of “mint”, I am very grateful to the entire team for their great work, thank you very much and I will continue to support you with donations.
P.S. I think “Hypnotix” is super cool, it’s going to have the favorites option available.
I am a Cinnamon only user, who wants to express my deepest appreciation for all the hard work that is going on to provide us users an Extremely Stable and easy to use DE. I joined up as a Patreon supporter some time ago, to enable making monthly donations easier. I don’t need my “personal name” attached, I just use a link to Patreon in my Signature in the hopes it will encourage more users to sign up with Patreon.
Thanks ever so much for your hard work, John in OkieLand
Thank you John.
Thanks Clem!
We all appreciate yours and your teams work!
Head up for these guys!
A little thing about Hypnotix: Mouse hiding when in full screen mode would be nice. I use Hypnotix a lot and love it.
Hi Clem, some time ago I tried to verify the performance of the apps that LinuxMint comes with under a Wayland session. The only thing I could do was to install Gnome (42.5) and test. The apps that didn’t start were: mintsources, mintupdate, mintwelcome, touchegg, onboard and redshift. Maybe they should put them under review in the cinnamon-wayland roadmap (for onboard and redshift in the future we should look for replacements). The other apps ran under xwayland or natively, and apart from some problems with the icons everything worked fine.
Thanks for the effort to keep improving LM!
An Onboard replacement could be ‘Maliit Keyboard’, in the same way Redshift could be replaced by ‘Chinstrap gammastep’. Both softwares are present in the Debian repositories and work for xorg and wayland.
Thanks Seba,
Our Wayland session will include XWayland. I’m sure the Mint tools will be able to get full Wayland support really easily. For touchegg/onboard/redshift it might be more complicated, but we’ll see. It’s not urgent, but we’ll review everything we ship with eventually anyway.
Clem, wouldn’t it be useful to update the github issues templates to indicate if the bugs occur in wayland or x11 sessions?
P.S. 1 BTW perhaps a future replacement for touchegg could be ‘fusuma’.
P.S. 2 Mint 21.3 doesn’t have a name yet? How about something like Violette/Virginia/Vivian.
A few of the default settings are still broken in Compiz. Would love to help sort that out before December.
Love the update about hypnotix! Underrated app that I use a bit. <3
Hello Clem,
All this talk about Wayland & its future development. However, on a very basic practical level what will I notice if my system was using Wayland & not Xorg, Would I even notice the difference?, would the resolution be any different. I don’t understand all the technical differences here & perhaps I don’t even need to know that level of detail. How does using Wayland make things different or better from the end users perspective?
some info here:
https://linuxhint.com/xorg-vs-wayland/
then you can see some practical opinions of users such as here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/10yfvx7/the_differences_between_xorg_and_wayland/
the gaming part, however, is the most delicate one, for use outside of that the situation is better
Re: “How does using Wayland make things different or better from the end users perspective?”
Good question, Cyteck! I hope Clem responds to your comment.
Please make Enable or Disable Automatic Login in LM like Ubuntu: a button on/off! It’s definitely not complicated and doesn’t require knowledge and great resources that can’t be solved in December with the release of the new edition.
Doesn’t look like Clem IS going to respond.
Ideally, you should not notice any difference when using Xorg or Wayland once Cinnamon’s incorporation/integration with Wayland is complete.
Although the article is about KDE Plasma, this is a good explanation of the switch to Wayland – https://pointieststick.com/2023/09/17/so-lets-talk-about-this-wayland-thing/
A very helpful and thorough blog posting about Wayland from Nate Graham. Thanks, oswald_c, for the link!
Thanks oswald_c for the link to the Wayland article, appreciated.
It’s exactly as Oswald said.
In 21.3 you’ll see a lot of differences, because it won’t be “ready”. It’ll be there as an experimental feature. You’ll see many cons compared to Xorg and maybe a few pros.
On the long term, eventually and ideally, when our work is done, you shouldn’t be able to tell much difference. That’s the moment when your question will be the most relevant. When both options work really well and the choice between boils down to small technical details, performance or limitations. But we’re not there yet.
The most important aspect of Wayland support right now is future compatibility. It’s a stepping stone. It means we’re able to continue to work with upstream projects which are embracing it, whether we’re talking about distributions, toolkits, libraries, drivers or applications.
@clem:You probably know that I love you and your team more than probably anyone here after all the years.
but the bug with the recurring “connection” windows (see upper right corner in pictures below), even though you click them away or “do not show again” is still not fixed. every time i establish a connection, the window appears no matter how often i click the window away. reinstalled now 3x . same problem. same problem with or without VPN.
pic 1: https://ibb.co/dMMvV3y
pic 2: https://ibb.co/n05NZc6
greetings. godbless.
I think that’s a network-manager issue. You can try the following to verify this:
– In Cinnamon, remove the network applet and restart the session. This will show the underlying (normally hidden) network-manager nm-applet in the system tray. See if it still happens.
– Try to reproduce it with a different desktop environment altogether, this will definitely confirm whether it’s something to do with Cinnamon or not.
yes will try later at home. i dont have this problem under LMDE 5.
@clem
I cant find the bug. i am to noob and unskilled for this.
I think ill just go back to LMDE 5 where i hadnt this problem. and hope it will be fixed until support for LMDE 5 runs out or ill switch to LM 21.3 later. idk.
godbless clem and thanks for all your work.
@LMDE Enjojer: I had the same problem as you. With every boot up this notification window showed up and every time I clicked on “do not show again” but in vain. Finally I gave up (mainly I am also to noob to figure this out), but I noticed that I had only this issue on a fresh install of LMDE 6. On my other computer I did an upgrade from LMDE 5 to LMDE 6 and there is still no problem with this notification whatsoever (as you said LMDE 5 does have this problem and it seems LMDE 6 is just taking over this setting).
So I did the following:
1) Fresh install op LMDE 5. Than make sure that this notification windows is not popping up anymore on boot up (on LMDE 5 it works)
2) Install all latest updates ol LMDE 5 so that is completely updated.
3) Straight after that upgrade to LMDE6 with mintupgrade. Problem solved: still no notification window popping up on boot up.
I now it is not a very elegant solution to the problem but at least you get rid of this annoying notification window with every boot up. So I hope this info will help you somewhat. Greetings
@clem
I installed now LM 21.2 (EDGE). Dont have the problem there. Also installed LMDE 5 to test again. No problem there. Also installed Debian 12. Problem yes. So it might be a Debian 12 Problem in general which also appears in LMDE 6.
I dont know how to solve it. I put notifications off now for a moment.
I believe I have found a solution for this issue.
First install dconf-editor from the repository.
Then open it and go to the submap /org/gnome/nm-applet:
there you will see the item ‘disable-connected-notifications’ which will be turned off. Toggle it to turn it on and then click on Reload. That’s it.
Greetings
Hi Clem,
It maybe offtopic but FYI there is a MATE weather report panel applet bug caused by 3rd party URL change by 16 October. https://github.com/linuxmint/linuxmint/issues/614
The bug has been fixed upstream by 19 October but both Ubuntu and LM repositories haven’t backported the fix as of 9 November.
I have the same problem as “LMDE enjojer” and I had to turn off notifications. I didn’t have that problem on the LMDE 5 version.
yes i think it will be with us all the time, because they probably can’t reconstruct it or don’t have the time to do so because they are currently working on the new LM and wayland.
Dear MINT team,
I see that the next version of Cinnamon is the 6th one. I see also, that you are working on improvements for some applications and Wayland development. Excellent.
However, I think there is one area of Cinnamon that still needs to be polished, updated, and above all revised.
I’m talking about “Cinnamon Spices”. The idea of offering “add-ons” is for some users very attractive and for many, especially amusing. But there is a bit of everything there.
From add-ons that don’t work, some repeated ones that do work, to those that crash Cinnamon or give it a special touch and work perfectly.
Compared to other desktops, Cinnamon Spices is an area of development that has, in my opinion, a lot of potential.
But if with XOrg there are add-ons that are simply a disaster, what will happen with Wayland? Is there any concrete idea about the development of this area for future versions of Cinnamon? and far from looking for conflicts, I wonder if Cinnamon will be able to offer, for example, the effects that are available in MATE through Compiz?
I’m curious to know if there is interest in offering more variety of effects (without compromising stability, clearly) than what is available today.
I look forward to reading your comments. Thank you.
An unconditional LM-Cinnamon user.
Hey guys!
Once again, I’d like to get some of the defaults for Compiz fixed in the latest MATE release. Here’s my pastebin from the bugreport I filed upstream to Debian directly:
https://pastebin.com/fY7bQJAG
Let me know if there’s a better way to submit these kinds of fixes.
Cheers,
rhY
I notice that Cinnamon is often crashing (3 computers – LM 21.2). No work is being lost, just clicking ok and one can continue to work. I can’t reproduce the bug, so I can’t file one. It’s mostly happening when another app is opening a dialog that pops up in the window of the app. From time to time, it is also happening when copying text from a website into a LO-document or into a note. How can I provide more debug-info? I didn’t have these crashes with the former LM – Cinnamon.
yes i’ve had that happen a few times now. especially when i had teamspeak running or discord and my vpn. the whole cinnamon crashed and went into emergency mode. i thought first someone hacked me but it was cinnamon who crashed.
I have the same problem. For me it crashes and falls back into a ‘minimum’ (or something like this) mode once a month when just browsing with Firefox. I have to restart Cinnamon as it is offered by the system. (Linuxmint 21.2)
I have the same problem. I experience the same thing when opening the find window of Poedit.
I have installed LMDE 6 on a Dell latittude 5490. It is working as expected.
Only one point there is an integrated finger print reader, its installation is not supported in LMDE 6 .
According instructions on internet il seams possible but complicated.
We are firmly into December.
Why is the blog dated October?
Blogs come out a the beginning of the month for the preceding month (saying what has happened in the preceding month), so I expect Clem will be issuing the November blog (for what has happened in November) in the next few days
@clem wake up. its december. november news are expected.
godbless
Clem is probably wide awake, and working hard with his team on developing Mint. A good job should not be rushed, and Clem always does a good job keeping all Mint users informed, so that we know exactly what is happening with our favourite Linux flavour. Perhaps there has been a late development which is important enough to warrant a slight delay until all the facts are known.
Yes. Let’s go Wayland!
just wondering, why are people pushing for Wayland. what is the difference to the end user.
How does it make any difference.
Just wondering
what is Wayland?
FYI: I don’t have a dog in this fight.
https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
https://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/news-singular-or-plural.htm
Just joking!
But see the second sentence of this blog – and then forgive me for being a compulsive proofreader!