Poll: Desktop environments


The initial poll had to be closed as its results were unfortunately manipulated. By clearing his/her browser’s cookies a voter could express his opinion multiple times. One of the poll options was clearly corrupted and we observed a bump from 14% to 32% in less than an hour. We weren’t able to assess whether other options had been corrupted as well.

Prior to this, the results were showing 5 DEs with high popularity scores: Cinnamon at about 42%, Gnome Shell and MATE at about 20% each, and KDE and Xfce at around 15%.

New poll:

A new poll was organized, this time, on our forums. If you’re registered on the forums, you can access the new poll at the following address:


We’re aware that restricting the poll to our forums members will slightly change the results and represent only the more involved and active portion of users within our user base. After the first poll had been manipulated and reviewing the options we had, we didn’t feel it was appropriate for us to spend time or resources in developing or purchasing a secure polling solution, so we decided to rely on our forums instead.

Thank you for your patience and sorry about this inconvenience. Although this didn’t exactly go according to plan, we already gathered precious feedback and we look forward to seeing even more with this second poll.


  1. The poll is very good idea and i have a suggestion, way you don’t include and openbox or to change Fluxbox on *box, or something like that?

  2. The Gnome 3 environment is OK but my PC can’t handle it.
    Who can afford to buy a new graphics card or a newer computer in these
    harsh economic times? (by the way, my on-board graphics card is not replaceable).
    So I am a Mint 11 user. It’s the best edition of Mint so far.

  3. I’ve just voted, I ‘ve chosen the desktop I am currently using in Linux MInt, and the desktop enviroment I am using in another distro

  4. I have been using KDE for the present until the Gnome desktop is sorted and fully functional. I like Cinnamon. Your KDE version is pretty good. Clem your are doing a great job taking us to the next level.

  5. In my opinion Cinnamon is the best desktop, gnome 3 is too much oriented for mobile interface, smartphones and it’s not convenient/usable for desktop computers.

  6. im using cinnamon but considering switching to mate because of the fixed window placement feature in compiz. on my large monitor its just stupid to have a bunch of applications overlapping eachother when theres plenty room elsewhere on my screen. so if that was implemented in cinnamon id certainly stick with it

  7. I’m still using Julia and will move to Maya once it is released. Cinnamon looks like a good option, far better than GNOME shell, IMO.

  8. Thanks Clem and team for asking I love the Cinnamon desktop when will it be listen on Linux Mint look or Gnome look? I mean its so much better than gnome shell thats done listed on gnome look really thanks for asking Cinnamon & Mate I like both.

  9. let me say some thing in this I like linuxmint but I am more of a ubuntu person/unity myself but I do think linuxmint has gone far as a distro and I like it the why it use to be at gnome 2 but now it gnome shell and now I am not so keen on it now so yea I say Cinnamon has it because it my have some key features that linuxmint needs to be my distro again

  10. I usually go with Gnome unless it’s an old machine, then it’s LXDE. I’m experiencing the same fragmentation mentally as the Gnome community, so I’m using MATE for now, but tentatively trying out the others. The top bar and infinity symbol are a bit new to me, but might increase productivity when I get used to them.

    Thanks to Clem and the rest of the Mint teams for listening to the community and guiding us through these technological and philosophical developments with understanding and intelligence 🙂

  11. MATE, of course.

    Cinnamon needs a bit more love. For me requirements, currently it isn’t yet ready to dialy use.
    Xfce & LXDE need more features to be a competitive desktop environment.

  12. i am a longtime kde/mint user and so i do now (mint 12 ‘lisa’ kde) on my main machine . on my laptop i am using lmde with mate. would be grate to have a kde distro in the future too, linux mint of couse.


    Edit by Clem: Just a brief answer (because that’s off-topic). We’re still not happy with Plymouth in terms of splash artwork. It looks great on some machines and horrible on others. With a black splash, we don’t achieve as much eye candy of course but at least we get a decent looking boot sequence for everybody. For this reason Mint 13 is likely to boot in black. With that said, we’ll consider putting a Mint splash in the repository for people to install.

  14. Until now I always went back to Linux Mint 10 (Gnome 2) after trying out newer releases. I like the UI and configurability of Gnome 2, and I like the Mint Menu.
    But I’m not sure if I will use MATE in the future. I’ve read that MATE is based on old libraries, which may be outdatet. But I am not shure what that means.
    Clem, it would be great if you could explain what disadvantages we have to expect by using MATE in the next 2 years, in comparison with Cinnamon.
    Thanks for asking us for feedback!

    Edit by Clem: That’s a very interesting question and it’s hard to predict where both MATE and Cinnamon will be in 2 years. MATE has two huge advantages over Cinnamon: It doesn’t rely on Gnome, and it uses a stable version of the GTK (version 2 rather than 3). You can see the ongoing trend and the way Gnome Shell is moving towards touch-screen and mobile interfaces. This doesn’t only affect Shell, it affects Mutter, Gnome underneath and to a lesser extent Clutter and GTK3 themselves. If tomorrow these technologies get dumbed down (and there’s a probability they will) and become useless for the usage we have of them (you can see this with the printer config tool already and the gnome center in Mint 12, and you might see this in Mint 13 with Mutter and some GTK apps maximizing themselves by default and hiding their title and menu bars…) we’ll have to replace or fork them. MATE won’t have that problem because it relies on technologies which are mature and which don’t risk changing going forward. Of course Cinnamon, in terms of codebase, is much more flexible than MATE, so we can make it evolve much more rapidly as well. You’ll see new features florish in Cinnamon faster than in MATE, but we’ll probably have to adapt it and protect it against regressions more often than MATE. I hope that answers your question a bit.. it’s a really complicated topic and it’s hard to give a brief answer.. there are a lot of pros and cons associated with both environments, and underneath the cover there are a huge amount of pros and cons associated with GTK2 vs GTK3 and the many libs these desktops are using.

  15. I prefer LMDE with Cinnamon. I dabble in the Gnome Shell, but it really interferes with my productivity. Cinnamon stays out of the way, the way it should, while looking good, the way it should.

  16. Unity (2D) is the best, Cinnamon is a good idea, I would like to use it on LMDE but still we have the problem with acceleration 3D, so your best desktop is Xfce


  18. XFCE & KDE is well….but kde has some problems in my laptop, so I choice XFCE.
    but I can’t find time-out plugin in the software center, then I try to compile it from the sources, but fail, it’s important for me and a WORK people…
    I just need someone tell me — It’s time to have a cup of tea….

  19. Why is Gnome 2 not on the list?

    This poll is biased by making that omission…

    Mate is nice but I will have to stick with Gnome 2 until it matures to the point that it does not slow down my work flow.

    Why is Gnome 2 not on the list? doesn’t anybody know the difference?

    Edit by Clem: Gnome 2 won’t be an option for people in the future. We already know Gnome 2 is the number #1 Linux desktop, what we want to do is predict the popularity of DEs going forward. About MATE vs Gnome 2, well the main difference is the name itself.. MATE is basically Gnome 2.3 renamed with a different name. There are also further differences as MATE is a relatively new project and some things don’t work as well as they did under Gnome 2 (sharing files, bluetooth, the sound recorder… and a few others..). As the MATE project tackles the bugs though, MATE is getting closer and closer to being exactly the same as Gnome 2.

  20. Tried out GNOME3 Classic in the latest Ubuntu 12.04 and it seems alright actually. If not that, then I would say Cinnamon.

  21. Right now i’m using Razor-qt (with openbox) because cinnamon does not really perform on my old pc. I’m going to switch to Linux Mint LXDE. If i had a newer / better performing pc i definitely would use cinnamon.

  22. Gnome shell has grown on me since using Mint 12. Cinnamon is nice but I have really developed a working, productive relationship with Gnome Shell. Even though you are abandoning your work on the MGSE, I’m not abandoning Gnome.

  23. Been using Cinnamon on Ubuntu 11.10 for awhile, took the plunge the plunge this morning and installed LMDE using Cinnamon and can not believe how fast it is!

  24. I’m using Mint Lisa 64bit right now with Cinnamon on 1 of 2 desktops. I’m dual-booted with LMDE with Mate (I think it’s mate anyway). I like Cinnamon, I know it’s new and all..so in time Cinnamon can only evolve to become better. I have Mint Isadora 32bit running on my ibm thinkpad for work (computer technician). I like Isadora due to compiz. Compiz does not seem to work with Cinnamon. Only issue with Cinnamon, at least for me and my hardware (tho not sure if there is a way) I can not click on the application windows when they are on the task bar. When I need to switch application or windows within the same workspace..I use Alt+Tab. I wish the ring switcher from compiz could be ported to Cinnamon..I have that on Isadora..when I show some clients that..they are surprised. I drifted away from KDE after 3.5. I might virtualbox kde version of mint to see what it is like. I use Cinnamon on my 1 desktop daily. Great job Clem & team with Cinnamon.

  25. Actually, could you have two more categories? “Undecided” and “Do not know”? Or “Havn’t tried anything but…”

    This means that more people (like myself) who have only used Gnome 2 up until now can still participate. I.e. I know that Cinnamon looks cool, but that’s all I know… What I do not know is whether it will still work with my Internet bank (requires Java to log in in Norway) or if I can still view videos from nrk.no

    Edit by Clem: Hi Jarl. If we modify the polll it will reset the votes. It doesn’t really have to be accurate and I understand many people don’t know yet about the various options they have. That’s ok. In regards to Java and the videos, the DE you choose won’t have any impact on that. Going forward we’ll replace Sun Java with OpenJDK. If your bank doesn’t work with that, you’ll still be able to install Oracle Java from the Oracle website. For the videos, if they work now, they’ll continue to work. Either way, these two aspects won’t be affected by your choice of desktop environment. These have to do with Java and the codecs themselves.

  26. I quite like the design of gnome shell, but would prefer to use a mint maintained desktop, so I am using cinnamon.

    However, I have been quite disappointed with its performance. Whenever my laptop is under some load, the whole interface gets all jerky and horrible. I have a core 2 duo, 4Gb ram and a Intel G45 graphics chip. This sort of thing didn’t happen with gnome 2 and compiz. I haven’t been able to compare it with gnome shell properly.

    So I am now being forced to consider xfce/lxde with compiz or enlightenment.

  27. @Clem, About splash screen, as you said you would consider putting a Mint splash in the repository. If you could do that, that will be great, I don’t really like the black screen. Putting a splash in repo will let people decide whether to go for it or not. Please, consider this…….Thanks again 🙂

  28. What Clem interjected in #23 I found very interesting. The idea that gtk3 may become damaged over time I had not immediately considered myself. I do know however there are some very similar concerns being raised in Xfce, and they are similarly rethinking about gtk3 migration as a result. My own preference would be to promote Xfce development over Mate, but clearly both would benefit in having actively maintained gtk2 forks of common things like the NetworkManager gui, for example. Presently I use wicd rather than nm for this reason.

  29. Cinnamon is deceptively ‘simple’ and ‘sleek’ but still ‘complex’ enough for modification to suite most everyday users’ needs. Even my semi ‘troglodyte’ brother is a Cinnamon fan.

    Long live Cinnamon!

  30. Cinnamon looks great but its running too slow on my machine (dual AMD 3800). So I changed to Xfce which is much faster and after puzzling around with some settings Xfce looks good too. So I am happy now with Xfce.

  31. Clem, thank you very much for the quick reply to my question. I find the topic and your answer very interesting and would like to read more about the possible future development of MATE and Cinnamon.
    I’m not a software developer and have limited understanding of GTK and other underlying technologies of both MATE/Gnome 2 and Cinammon/Gnome Shell.
    Nonetheless I would like to read more about both. If you can provide a link or write something yourself and publish that in a blog or in a Linux related magazine, I would be very thankful. All I have read until today does only scratch the surface.
    I think you are THE MAN with all the understanding and the ability to explain difficult topics in a clear and simple way to understand for every low-end geek.
    Keep going!

  32. Of course it has to be Mate.

    Only Mate is a real continuation of Linux Mint 11 Katya.

    Now just fix the theming bugs I pointed out in LMDE and Mate will be perfect!

  33. I switched over to Cinnamon recently as I think it might be used as the default in Mint 13 LTS and so wanted to try it out first. I have been very impressed with everything so far. I like the menu style (as good as the old gnome 2.x) and find that the panel is unobtrusive (the icons and font size are small and so blend into the background). I would also like to see the weather applet included in the standard applets in 13. I also like the hint of transparency in the menu. Keep up the great work as you have a fantastic distro. By the way, I intend to stay with Cinnamon.

  34. Mint is my favorite Linux distro and I use it on a variety of desktop and laptop hardware.

    My main laptop is a SONY VAIO with intel i7 quad core and 6 gigs of ram. I’m running Mint 12 KDE from a 16 gig thumb drive and love it – it’s Windows 7 done right!

    I have a small collection of Junkensteins, elderly desktops I rescued and rebuilt which are used mostly by our church youth. I’m going to migrate them from Mint 10 Gnome to Mint 12 LXDE when another one of them breaks.

    I like to experiment with other Mint DEs but don’t really use the Gnome 2 replacements enough to have a strong opinion yet.

  35. I am using Windows XP and in process of transition to LMDE MATE.
    In terms of user-experience, MATE and Cinnamon looks similar to me, but MATE is much responsive.

  36. I used to use Gnome 2.
    There is no better environment as it!

    – Mate is not mature and not well supported
    – Gnome 3 in “classic” mode is not better
    – Cinnamon is a variant of Gnome 3 classic.
    – XFCE is a little bit poor

  37. I’m happy with gnome 3.2 and mate right now. I think Cinnamon has potential but it is too “green” right now. I would like to be able to alter things like the panel without having to go in and alter code, can’t it just be easily configurable?

  38. I have been using Cinnamon on 12 since trying out MATE and XFCE a few months back. When 13 is out I plan on trying MATE again, especially after reading Clem’s comments above. I’m quite happy with Cinnamon. XFCE was a pleasant experience and I’m not all that sure why I’m not running it now – I do have all of the desktops installed!
    Choices Choices ….
    Right now changing to LMDE would be an upheaval I’m not ready to undertake but I am tempted!

  39. I like Cinnamon, it’s enjoyable to use. Out of the annoying GNOME 3 / ATI issue, that is.
    So for now i stick with the Fallback mode, but i will go back to Cinnamon as soon as this issue is fixed.

  40. I despise Gnome 3. Still using Katya, and will stay there for quite a while. After that I’ll try Cinnamon, or go to Xfce.

  41. I choose Cinnamon & Mate because that is what I have installed of the 2 I prefer Mate as it’s pretty close to Gnome2 which I like the look and feel of. I can’t get use to Cinnamon but to be honest haven’t used it enough to really get a feel for it. Have tried a few of the others but can’t really say that i have used them.

    Thanks Clem & Mint Team for all the work you do to make Mint 1st Class.

  42. I heard a rumor this AM that Mint 13 will have a MATE version all of its own. If so, I’m excited. I have been using MATE on a U-12.04 mini iso install. The mini iso installs a base system only. No desktop environment or gui related apps at all. It’s cool to install and run MATE on but it’s also easy to break if you don’t know exactly what you’re doing, what you install or how/what apps you choose to set it up. I’ve broke it a number of times. It will be great to have a MATE only distribution put together by pros.

  43. Never liked KDE so far, so sticking with Gnome. I hope Gnome Shell will mature like KDE 4 did but it is not the one i would use for now. So here are my choices :

    Cinnamon (with “Applications / Places/ System” menu bar)
    MATE for low graphic power machines
    other : Pantheon (Gnome Shell fork from Elementary OS)

  44. I tend to install at least 3 desktops and switch around often, if I’m using an OS more than a couple of weeks. Having said that, I do prefer KDE and Cinnamon, while Xfce and LXDE are perfectly fine as secondary choices. I’ve only just started trying Unity so I can’t really speak about it yet. Gnome Shell doesn’t irritate me, but Cinnamon just seems to be an improvement.

  45. @Sergio, Mate has improved a lot. Try Mate 1.2 in LMDE. Mate is the true continuation of Gnome2 Mint and I will replace Katya with the Mate edition of Maya.

  46. Oh well. Now I’m in a plight what to vote for. Both desktop environments which I use on (a) Ubuntu and (b) Linux Mint have been taken off the list, because they have been abandoned:
    + Gnome 2
    + Gnome Shell with MGSE
    It is more likely than not that in the end my favourite will be Cinnamon. It might be Mate. It might even be XFCE.
    From my current perspective, it is unlikely it will be any of the “touchpads-preferred” environments on my desktop machines.
    For the moment I’ll tick the choices
    [x] Cinnamon
    [x] Mate
    because they look most promising to me.

  47. @Rüssel, since you are using Mint 10, then the libraries Mate are based on are the same version as the Gnome you are using, not older. Both are Gnome 2.32. Mate is really a continuation of Gnome 2.

  48. I like Cinnamon & Mate (prefer the latter), but I ll prob stick with the Ubuntu 10/LM 10 versions, DE is just working too well for me.
    SPLASH screen pls (dark looks cheapo)
    ATI cards now working fully out of box? (here: ATI4570)?

  49. I have been using Mint alongside with Windows quite for a while. My high-spec machine is Mint 12 + Cinnamon 1.4 64-bit, which is fantastic.
    I have 2 machines that are Mint 11 with Gnome, one because is a low/mid-spec machine and the other – because my wife refused to work on Unity and Gnome 3. So in few months when Mint 11 will be out of support I’ll be forced to go MATE, which looks rather OK.

  50. Ooops, forgot too: Will it have the pae extension by default??
    PS: Please add an “edit” function 😉

  51. I’m using Linux Mint 12 Gnome Fallback, because it’s the best for keep working like gnome2, using these original gnome applets and nenus, and keep esthetic view.

  52. pretty shocked at how much I’m liking XFCE. I installed KDE as well but now I rarely boot into that. XFCE is so crisp and so far everything works.

    Have a few minor bugs or issues but nothing critical, been meaning to look into stuff.

  53. I’m a new Linux Mint user and I’m using Gnome, and I like it because it’s NOT WINDOWS!! All the other desktops remind me too much of Windows, and I’d rather not be reminded of it!

    Why does the Linux community want to have a look like Windows?

    Or maybe I’m missing something…

    But I’m saddened to learn I’m going to have to “upgrade” to a desktop that looks and acts like anything from Microsucks. What a shame.

  54. I’ll try to stick to Gnome2 for as long as I can, and after that I’ll try KDE or even windows. Gnome3/Cinnamon was a big disappointment for me, and frankly, XFCE isn’t really a viable replacement.

  55. Still using Mint 9 Xfce on my primary machine. It’s great, but I want to upgrade because suspend does not work with 9 but it works with the new Linux kernel. Non of my computers have 3D graphics cards or I would be tempted to try Cinnamon. I am considering Xubuntu and Mint Debian Xfce.

  56. I’m personally amazed by the fact that cinnamon has come so far in so little time. The best I can describe it is someone took what we enjoyed about the various gnome 2 configurations, gave it some major beautifications, and updated it. All-in-all I love it.


    Just vote MATE. Mate is, for all intents and purposes, Gnome 2. You can always argue it isn’t because gnome isn’t the ones making it, but no amount of arguing will make GNOME bring it back, and it needs to be renamed because gnome didn’t bother changing names of files between gnome 2 and 3. Because of this, a straight compilation of gnome 2 on a system with gnome 3 present will result in a huge explosion of fireballs, pain, and death. That’s why Mate came about. They renamed the components so they don’t argue with eachother, and they’re keeping them up to date. Making it a continuation of gnome 2 as if gnome hadn’t ditched it so violently.

  57. @Bamm, with Mint 10 there are already some incompatibilities that may relate to the Gnome 2 libraries. For example it doesn’t show the files on my iPhone 4 with iOS 5.1. Gnome Shell shows these files easily.
    For reasons like that I am not sure if MATE is the right choice for the next years to come.

  58. I think we must think about the underlying toolkits when we choose, I think Qt/C++ is very much better and more productive and easier to maintain than GTK+/C, KDE is great in providing classic interface AND tablified interface, and we don’t have to spend time developing our own DE, it is already there, it is stable, we can just customize it and integrate it very well.

  59. I will continue using Gnome 2 on Isadora until Cinnamon works as well as Gnome 2 – then I will probably move to Maya. Puppy Linux with the JWM desktop is my trusty backup.

  60. My vote for Gnome Shell. And I’m glad to statistically see that being in second place (with 21%) it is not as despised as I thought from commentaries I see everywhere.
    To me, MATE is just way too conservative, even averse to innovation I’d say. No point investing efforts in keeping progress from progressing.
    As for Cinnamon, it now is just too Windows-wannabe for my taste. But I’m sure it will evolve into something interesting if a whole community backs it up.

  61. While I plan to use Cinnamon/Mate in the foreseeable future, I would like the option of choosing Gnome shell from the login screen. Since Cinnamon is a Gnome Shell fork, it should be easy to allow that option.

    As a matter of fact, when I upgraded my LMDE install to the pack 4, Gnome 3 was one of the options in the login screen! I would like to see this option in Linux Mint 13 and LMDE in the future.


  62. Other: solusos gnome2, or gnome3, provided that it will offer the same experience as gnome2, like previewed.

  63. I would say Cinnamon and Shell for those who want to move forward, and LXDE o XFCE for lower resources.

  64. I’m using Cinnamon on my LMDE 32 bit laptop and I like it very much. I see a few rough edges that need to be smoothed out but it’s nothing I can’t live with. Cinnamon on my LMDE 64 bit desktop was a different story. It would randomly kick me back to the login screen when I was web browsing with Chromium or Google Chrome. I didn’t see if it happened with Firefox. I’m using Mate on that machine with no issues.

  65. It looks like I’ll be going to LMDE with XFCE. I use it (32-bit) on my netbook, and I’ll be switching my desktop (to 64-bit) pretty quick. I’ve been trying out MATE, Cinnamon, Gnome3… and I even had a whack at Unity.

    Could I make a point here?

    This is supposed to be about choice. And that’s being taken away from us: which isn’t really the fault of you folks at Mint. I understand that. But it’s like almost all the desktops available are the winners of some “See How Cool I Made My Desktop?” contest. And that’s great – for those who like it or want to take the time to do it: to their OWN desktops. But it takes choice away from the rest of us when we can’t undo all those cool things that are really only cool for some; not for everyone.

    Personally, I will always use an environment that starts out as tabula rasa, and allows me to take it where I choose.

    I want an empty desktop. *Completely* empty.
    I want to put toolbars and launch bars where I want them – and hide, auto-hide, or keep them always visible as I like.
    I want a simple menu – one column, with the option to expand-on-hover. Unless I alter it.
    I want the mouse to do things when I click it – not when I simply move it. Unless I provision it otherwise.

    Mint is clearly the best distro on the planet ATM – however I see it slowly but inevitably tending toward a paradigm that has caused me to drop some others (and not just *nix) in the past. The whole “we know best” thing – whether fostered upstream, or in-house – leaves me cold. Nobody knows best what I want out of an operating system but me.

    I thought that was the point of Linux, no? So the best distro will *always* be that which allows the most configuration, and allows it easily. I don’t want to have to get involved with spinning my own – but I feel like I’m being forced in that direction. Dammit, I have better things to spend my time on – I’d rather send you money (or rather, Bitcoin – when you decide to accept it).

    Ah well… end digression.

    So again, to answer the question: LMDE with XFCE. For now.

  66. I really like Cinnamon, I just wish that the GNOME people would stop messing around with GNOME, so that GNOME 3 could be as feature packed as GNOME 2 was.

  67. I used to be a Gnome 2 user, but Gnome 3 pretty much killed my interest in the Gnome desktop. I appreciate the efforts folks have made in trying to make Gnome 3 more palatable. However, I suspect if distros keep following Gnome’s crazy path fixing up their desktop, we’re never going to see a return to the reliable workhorse Gnome. There’s no need for Gnome to sort their desktop if others are doing it for them heh. I’m concerned that the Mint team are spending time making Gnome 3 work when instead a more sensible desktop could have been used as the flagship desktop and given us a more stable platform. You’ve done a fantastic job, but I can’t help thinking other desktops with Mint love would be even better. Anywho /rant! 😉

    I did a fair bit of distro hopping after Gnome 3. I started with the other Mint distros. KDE 10 is still on my drive, since Gnome 2 it’s the only distro I’ve tried that just works like magic with my system. Mint 12 KDE was ok, but 10 still felt better so I stuck with 10 and went looking at more distros (damn you Distrowatch)

    Bodhi 1.4 is on one partition – I love E17 as a desktop, it can be attractive but stay lightning fast. Once they update to base on Precise and add a 64 bit version too, I think that is going to be a fantastic distro. It really makes me wonder why E17 distros aren’t more widespread.

    The other partition has been Ubuntu Studio XFCE Oneiric. It was stable and another good workhorse distro. Can’t fault it really. I had tried the Debian Mint on XFCE but I just don’t like the Debian based Mints at all. I just couldn’t get along with it. So I though I’d grab Studio instead. I’d love to see a Mint based on Xubuntu or Studio, I do miss the “Mintification” for want of a better word 😀

    I’ve been testing Pangolin Studio beta and now Kubuntu. I had a few minor issues with beta which seem to be all fixed *touches wood*, I’m now trying the final release Kubuntu as a fresh install. I really look forward to seeing the KDE mint based on this baby though, I’m quite badly addicted to KDE apps, especially the new Krita…so it’s a good base for me to start with and add design/music programs.

    I’d probably pick E17 and KDE as my joint favorite desktops then XFCE.

    Anyways, that was far longer than I meant it to be, but I hope it’s helpful.

  68. Right now I’m using Mint 12 with Cinnamon as my main OS. Now that the latest iso for Mint Debian is out, I’m going to switch back to it. I like MATE, since it is most comfortable and familiar to me. But if Cinnamon ends up more effectively utilizing the Gnome 3 technology, then I’ll stay with it.

  69. I currently use Mate, but I plan on checking out Cinnamon and KDE when the next edition of Mint is released.

  70. My vote is Cinnamon as I simply believe that it is the best desktop considering future technology and usability. Gnome 2, as popular as it is, is dead and gone and people need to move on. Cinnamon offers the best of both worlds in my opinion. I have tried Mate and it is quite buggy for me while Cinnamon is light and runs incredibly fast. I do miss Compiz because of the fun factor but that is not a kill all for me. At the end of the day, it is about practicality and functionality and Cinnamon is the best choice of the ones I have tried. I can’t offer much in the way of LMDE because it gives me fits dealing with drivers, etc. Mint Main just makes things so easy and works out of the box so it along with Cinnamon is the obvious choice for me. I will be interested to see the future features and improvements with Cinnamon. Thanks Clem for what you have done and are doing with this excellent distro. I have tried many others and always come back to Mint 😉

  71. Depending on my current distribution, I mostly boot into KDE or Xfce. Cinnamon won’t just start for me (either because of violated dependencies on one machine or because of the Fallback mode on the other). I never liked Gnome, and I never will.

  72. LMDE with XFCE for now, old hardware! When I buy new configuration it will be Cinnamon! Thanks to mint team !

  73. @ Scyer

    ‘Mate is, for all intents and purposes, Gnome 2’

    You could not be more wrong. If it were MATE would share the same stability as ‘pure’ Gnome 2

    The psuedo MATE may come as good in time but these are early days.

  74. Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is my final Ubuntu distribution. I do not like any of their ‘improvements’ that do not offer suitable alternatives.

    At this time, I’m slowly migrating to ‘Mint 12 Mate’ and waiting for Mint 13 LTS to see if I will live with it for a few years.

    I am not alone in this move. I know others who are waiting to see if the coming Mint LTS will be our new Linux home.

    Thank you for listening to the public and trying to satisfy our needs and wants.

  75. I love Mint Debian but at the moment I run Fedora 16 with Gnome 3.
    It took some getting used to but I want Gnome 3 now continue to use as is, without modifications.

    Is there a way to install Mint Debian without Mate or Cinnamon?

  76. LMDE with Cinnamon looks like it will be a smash hit once Cinnamon is more mature. I’ve tried with all my might to get Cinnamon to be stable and reliable enough for everyday use, but it’s just not there yet.

    Xfce has been rock-solid, and that’s what I require as I do my day-to-day and business computing completely on Linux, using Windows VMs only when necessary.

    Clem and the team, keep up the great work you guys do! 😀

  77. @Jaime Frontero

    I am not sure why you think Mint is moving towards a “we know what’s best” thing. Mint (Clem) has bent over backwards trying to keep as many options open as possible. Mint is a small team and they need to decide where to concentrate their efforts. Mint doesn’t really have any less options than it did before. If you like Gnome 2, then use MATE. It is the same thing. Gnome Shell should still be available in the repositories. You can use Cinnamon as well. Also, there’s KDE, LXDE and Xfce. Even if any of them may or may not be a default on an install disk, they are a simply ‘apt-get’ command away.

  78. Using Fluxbox because Unity is to unusable for my needs. Will use Mint with Cinamon when vertical tool-bar options becomes available.

  79. I use LXDE with Mint 12 because it was the least painful transition. I run it on several different machines, from a new laptop with quad-core Intel with 8GB ram and a solid-state drive to an older 4GB desktop machine that runs amateur radio programs.

    The most useful event I can conceive would be to have an easily-accessible reference guide for the default desktop. Things like when to use the right-click on your mouse or touchpad, how to create a shortcut on the desktop, etc. would be most useful. A reference guide should be a “how-do-I-do-something” experience. Even a plain how-to listing would be helpful.

    Another highly useful item would be a listing of the programs installed WITH DESCRIPTIVE COMMENTS.

  80. I think you should stop dividing efforts and concentrate on your strengths. LMDE has much more potential than the version based on Ubuntu. If you leave the latter and focus only on LMDE with Cinnamon, KDE and LXDE (without MATE or Xfce, I don’t see the point of them) would be great. 🙂

  81. DE’s are overrated.
    Pure openbox was best floating desktop expirience i ever had.
    And then I installed dwm and achieved satori.

  82. keeping my options open, just reinstalled LMDE on my laptop tried Cinnamon and XFCE, trying out MATE at the moment, Cinnamon on my desktop PC (Mint12) and LXDE on the server (Ubuntu).

  83. I use Cinnamon LXDE on the systems that support it, while I use Mate LXDE in my virtual systems and on my older computers. Except for my straight Debian, I use Plasma cause i like messing around with it.
    (if you can’t tell, I like Debian)

  84. I like a robust, stable, polished OS witch uses few resources
    I’ve abandonned Ubuntu and Mintxx few years ago, my 2 daughters are still using Mint9-Isadora

    I prffered LMDE gnome 2

    The times they are in changing, I will not follow cinnnamon, mate gnome 3

    Now I’m using LMDE-xfce and archbang-Openbox, In the future I;ll try LMDE-openbox

    Both combinations (OS-DE) are well implemented (I cannot say the same for crunchbang)

  85. I’m currently using Linux Mint 11.

    But I’m looking forward eagerly to the release of Linux Mint 13, when I plan to move to it and start using Cinnamon. I’ve been following the development of Cinnamon, and I’ve been admiring what Clem and his colleagues have been accomplishing with it.

  86. I have installed KDE from synaptic for a week ago and like it. For a while I used Mate and it was pretty good but some things did not work so I went back to Gnome for a while. Have not tried Cinnamon yet, but I will. It is great to have all this desktops to chose between. I did leave Ubuntu when they introduced Unity, its not only that I don’t like Unity, its something with the attitude when they realest it. Linux Mint is best! Thank you so much!

  87. LMDE with xfce. Fluxbox is nice for minimal stuff. I find Unity and Gnome Shell awkward. Never a big Gnome 2 fan, so I haven’t used MATE much. I will check out Cinnamon more but feel LMDE and xfce 4.8 have reached a certain maturity and really enjoy them after rougher early releases.

  88. Thanks Clem for bringing some stability to Linux and the common user. I am still using LM11 until the the next LTS. Then hours of testing to find what is next for me. It will be as close to Gnome 2 as possible with the sound system working. I have never cared for compiz. Give me functionality and speed, that is all I want in a GUI. How ya the file system. mmmmmm that is a whole other issue since Nautilus is a Gnome product – this may certainly have to be address in the future.

  89. Still running LM9 with Gnome 2, as it is supported until 2013. I have fully tested LM12-KDE, and have found that it is really nice, and not a huge learning curve from Gnome 2. Yes it is different, but in some very nice ways, and still not completely foreign. It feels way more complete than any of the latest offerings involving the Gnome 3 debacle. The only reason why I voted “other” is I am experiencing some Nvidia driver issues in KDE. Some 3D rendering is just not fluid with certain screensavers(I call them 3D test screensavers, lattice being one of them). These same screensavers respond beautifully in LM9, even with older Nvidia drivers. With KDE, desktop effects seem okay but again, not quite as fluid as they should be. Tried upgrading to Nvidia 295, but got black screen, and haven’t messed with it sense. If I was sure a future LM-KDE release would address these issues, or I could resolve it myself without too much difficulty, I would have definitely voted for KDE. I hope this helps. Thank you Clem for all your hard work.

  90. My first Mint version was Mint 12. Before that, i used Ubuntu. I tweaked gnome shell a bit (set default theme, disabled monitor and music player extensions, moved clock to center), and i liked it. I never used Mate/Gnome 2 (mostly due to my first distro was Ubuntu 11.04; 10.10 were falling into console). I used this system for a long time, since the mid of December.

    Few weeks ago, i’ve looked at Cinnamon screenshots, and i didn’t liked it. Because Mint 13 use it by default, i decided that i will switch to Debian, or go back to Ubuntu.
    Around that period, i found out that i got two 2gb swap partitions. I turned the largest one into ext4 file system, installed Debian (right from Mint), and started experimenting. After i installed X server, i were searching for an DE, that will fit into this small 2gb partition. I’ve stopped at LXDE. It’s good, fast, but not as great as my tweaked gnome shell.

    Few days ago, i broke my video drivers (black screen, can’t even switch to tty). I didn’t had Mint disk, because i installed it from Flash. But i had Ubuntu 11.10 disk. I’ve installed it, and i could not use Unity. That’s right, i used it since 11.04 release to the mid of December, and i couldn’t use it again. So i purged Unity, installed gnome shell, temporarily added Mint repository, and installed MGSE.
    I could install Debian, but the fonts don’t look good enough, and i didn’t seen so awful Russian fonts before (it’s my native language).

    Then i updated to 12.04 beta. MGSE didn’t worked, so gnome shell feel lot worse and unusable (now i understand, why Linus hate it).
    I’ve manually installed extensions from gnome extensions site. Now, gnome shell is usable. The bottom bar is different, and Alt-Tab is Gnome 3 style, but i like it this way (because i use Alt+~ too). I’ve also installed «Battery remaining time and percentage» extension, and it’s very useful.

    tl;dr: I like gnome shell with MGSE extensions, but i don’t like Cinnamon. I also used LXDE, it’s good, but not as good as gnome shell with extensions.

    I voted for Gnome Shell, and LXDE.

  91. After trying LM12 with MATE, MGSE, and eventually Cinnamon I had to downgrade to LM9 with GNOME2 to be able to get any work done! Things either kept crashing or it was difficult to find what I am looking for, or both.
    For LM13 I will give both MATE and Cinnamon a serious second look, but currently my #1 choice is LXDE.

  92. Well I’m using Gnome 3, but I’d rather use Cinnamon, or at least I think I might, but the shell crashes immediately after login. So please, please keep on working on those bugs!

  93. Runnning LM12 with Cinnamon, MSGE, and MATE, and my #1 choice is Cinnamon. It’s simple and gives a nice user interface. J

  94. My votes
    1. KDE : Obviously fan of it and right now only desktop where all applications are working.
    2. MATE : Because many applications which are not working in cinnamon are still working in MATE.
    3. Cinnamon : Although I use cinnamon more, but when I put compiz effects on in MATE for me it alone beats cinnamon all the way.

  95. My prefferences are
    1) KDE.
    2) Gnome Shell.

    I haven’t tryed Cinnamon yet, I’m waiting for LM13 for to try it.
    And I think that LXDE is and important enviroment to support for NetBook users or someone else who’s using less resources machine. so

    3) LXDE

  96. I use Mint 9 with GNOME2 … it is great.
    If Cinnamon gets the features of GNOME2, e.g. to edit the menu like the MintMenu I will use it in future.

    On the other hand I will give Unity a try … with the GNOME2-feature I have heard about (haven’t tested jet). Perhaps it looks and works like the old GNOME2.

    Thank you everyone for Linux Mint.

  97. I appreciate asking for feedback. I currently use Cinnamon and quite like it. However, I’ve been warming up to Unity – Ubuntu 12.04 has made some good strides with it and I may stay with it for a while. I have always wanted to like KDE but for some reason could never commit. Will be very interested to see how Mint 13 develops. Thanks for making Linux my daily OS at work where stability and usability is everything.

  98. I have used PCLinux OS for quite some time following the developments with Mint. I like Cinnamon. Development looks promising. But it is a bit slow. I installed Mint KDE and it is a little bit faster on my netbook.

    Gnome is my favourite desktop, so I am curious about the developments on Cinnamon in Mint 13 as Gnome in PCLinuxOS is behind on the development in Mint.

    Good work Mint team!!

  99. @Jaime89
    Quote: But it’s like almost all the desktops available are the winners of some “See How Cool I Made My Desktop?” contest. And that’s great – for those who like it or want to take the time to do it: to their OWN desktops. But it takes choice away from the rest of us when we can’t undo all those cool things that are really only cool for some; not for everyone. Unquote.

    A point well said, Jaime. For now I am trying Mate and XFCE with LMDE and I haven’t yet tried Cinnamon. I would love it to try but I haven’t got any of those special glasses with red and green lenses for 3D-effects. Perhaps you bring out a lean Cinnamon for those without 3D-inclinations, Clem?

    For me too, a simple uncluttered desktop is my priority. All icons tucked away unless I decide otherwise. Elegance needs simplicity. Add functionalism to that simplicity and the perfect operating system is at hand.

    But then I used Linux Mint 4 for all of its lifetime, so grew up expecting the best 🙂

  100. Cinnamon vs MATE?

    Cinnamon is gnome 3 trying to be MATE/Gnome 2 very badly. Cinnamon may not succeed because of the wound that is gnome 3. Cinnamon runs slowly. Cinnamon is a 2d desktop with a 3d acceleration requirement (thx gnome 3, that’s a mind boggling requirement for a 2d desktop). Cinnamon puts it’s own actions before that of the user.

    In MATE, i click the start menu i get presented the start menu. In cinnamon, i click the start menu i get presented with a fade in and then the start menu. What i wanted was the start menu, not pretty special effects and then the start menu. It’s more or less the same story for closing, minimizing, maximizing…doing anything in cinnamon, it does some stupid special effects bullshit first before doing what you wanted. MATE is nothing like this unless i want it to be because i have a choice with it.

    Gnome 3 is a non task oriented desktop being made into a task oriented desktop the likes of MATE/Gnome 2. MATE/Gnome 2 actually work like MATE/Gnome 2. Whereas cinnamon tries to be MATE/Gnome 2 but works like gnome 3.

    I can appreciate cinnamon, but well, no i can’t. Cinnamon is nice work, but i don’t understand the point of it with MATE around. It seems like double the effort with work being done on MATE, and work being done on cinnamon to be just like MATE. This and gnome 3 sucks.

  101. @shamill, My experience could not be more opposite than yours. Do you have effects turned off in Cinnamon settings? If I turn mine off, I get no “bs” effects as you so colorfully put it. Cinnamon is not in any way trying to be Mate. Why do people make statements like this about an unfinished product?? If you don’t like it the answer is simple…don’t use it. Mate is very buggy for me but it is also a work in progress. Clem does an excellent job of listening to his users which is why I appreciate Mint so much. Why not simply give him time to create a finished product? Wow

  102. On-topic:

    I use LM 12 and the Cinnamon DE as my primary and MATE (with the MATE repos enabled) as my secondary.


    The problem with MATE at the moment is that certain things like “mintupdate” do not load at login. Neither does the Mint login sound. More to the point though is not knowing what things are called in MATE. What I mean is, certain apps that came default with Gnome 2, like the Archive Manager for example, are not yet installed by default in MATE. The MATE equivalent is called “engrampa” but how would “the average user” possibly be able to find that? Without “engrampa” installed there’s no “Extract here” type entries in the “Caja” (Nautilus equivalent for those who don’t yet know) right-click context menus for compressed files. Gnome 3’s “File Roller” only partially works in MATE and has no right-click context entries in Caja.

    This is only one example of course but even I have to resort to the MATE forums when trying to find the MATE equivalent of some Gnome 2 native app. Like the “engrampa” example. I more than understand that MATE is very young yet and I’m sure it will improve with LM 13 and beyond but having two new DEs (Cinnamon and MATE) that still very much under development leave me feeling a bit wobbly at the moment.

    I’m not complaining here, just making an observation.


    The forums are down again. 😉

  103. Kirk M@108

    I feel your pain. That’s exactly why I have stuck with LM9 running Gnome 2. However, as I mentioned in post 102, LM12-KDE feels much more complete than Mate/Cinnamon/Gnome 3 or what have you. Clem is doing great work on those projects, but there is obviously more to do. I did have my small issue with 3D rendering on KDE, but for the most part, KDE is solid, and looks sharp too. I don’t know if you’ve given it a good chance, but if not, you owe it to yourself. I’m not saying your going to be sold on it, but it’s worth a shot.

  104. Before I became a Gnome 2 user, I was a KDE guy. But honestly, I’m probably going to move away from a “desktop environment” and go back to a window manager that supports multiple virtual desktops… FVWM2, Metacity, or IceWM… maybe JWM.

    The big question is: Will Linux Mint enable/allow/survive my doing so?

    OTOH, I might just stay with Linux Mint 11 (Katya) — Gnome Edition, themed w/Mac4Lin.

  105. (I really wish there was an “edit” button)

    In my previous comment, I wrote “The big question is: Will Linux Mint enable/allow/survive my doing so?”

    I guess the real question is to what extent the Linux Mint “experience” is tightly-coupled to (a)ny particular Desktop Environment; or, in put a different way, how much of (a)ny particular Desktop Environment can I remove from a Linux Mint version (say, LM12 or LMDE-201204), and have it still remain “Linux Mint”?

    Perhaps what I’m really asking for is a “barebones” LM edition!

    (probably worth mentioning my hardware: dual 1.4GHz PIII cpus, 2GB RAM, ATI Rage 128)

  106. I waited for a long time after this LMDE release to fully switch from WIN to Linux+Cinnamon. But I cannot. Cinnamom is not totally localized in french and VMWare cannot be fully compiled (“Failed to compile module vmnet” or “…vmmon”). Regrets.
    Because I am not a skilly Debian user, I will try Mint 12 to wait for a more mature LMDE release, despite of the great job already done.

  107. I tried KDE recently as I used kde 3.x for a long time, but the letter sizes were always problematic and copying a lot of files (10000+) always resulted in errors, sometimes without proper warning. Gnome2 and cinnamon has no such problems.

    I use Cinnamon now and like it very much. I also use kate for programming and smplayer for video. The only problem that I have is with skype notifications… Please fix that ASAP

  108. Xfce on LMDE 64. I always come back to Xfce. Lets me do what I want and otherwise stays out of my way.

    Yes, a barebones edition would fill a need. The need to get rid of Mono, at least.

  109. I use Cinnamon daily on LMDE on my Dell XPS 15 L502x laptop. It runs really fast (although I have 8 gigs of RAM and an Intel Core i7-2760QM), and I like it just as much as gnome 2 (although I didn’t use gnome 2 for very long, maybe only 2 months or so). I can customize it very well, it has good themes, I like the traditional-ness of it, and I like that it’s modern. I also use LMDE XFCE on my old Gateway PC, which is good. While this will probably change, I’m very surprised by the results of this poll, specifically that KDE is ahead of everything. I’m also surprised that MATE is so far behind, coming in 4th. I’d also like to say to Clem that internet polls really aren’t very accurate (although they’re helpful). I think that a lot of the mint users don’t vote in these polls, and they basically use the default, whatever that is. I wouldn’t use this data alone for the pick for default desktop. That’s just my opinion, though.

  110. I’m not sure if it tabulates two votes in this contest, but I selected Cinnamon and Other. Cinnamon has become my primary desktop on my audio production workstation, although I still do have a beef with some bugs.

    My other is a Cario-dock w/Gnome w/effects session. I love the interface, and the edge to edge screen realty for windows. Unfortunately, it too has some bugs. It makes a great workstation for our household netbook, for internet and documents. However, it had a few annoying flaws that still need to be worked out.

    My choice ultimately is a desktop based on current gnome code, but no one has it quite right yet. Hopefully we get to stability in all these projects by Mint 14!

  111. I still use mint 10 gnome2 for now; it’s the only Mint that works correctly (besides Kubuntu 12). LMDE will install but doesn’t recognise my DSL direct connection nor does any Mint Debian distro see the repositories…. I always get errors other wise I would go to LMDE. Since Mint no longer works like it should and gNome 3 is so screwed up as to be worthless, I can only upgrade to Kubuntu12; it works like it should. Pity, I liked Mint so well. AMD 6 core

  112. I have been using the default Gnome Shell & MGSE on Linux Mint 12 on a netbook. The UI fits so well with the 10″ screen. Perhaps I shall continue on Cinnamon.

  113. Last year a computer magazine here carried a review of Mint 11 LXDE with the caption “Who needs a GNOME fork when LXDE can be this good?” and I agree wholeheartedly with that. IMO Mint LXDE edition is a perfectly good alternative for those of us who can’t get to like Gnome 3 and it’s stable, being based on Ubuntu like the main edition. I wish the team could focus a bit more on that edition and release it sooner after the main edition is released, but I appreciate you’re a small team with only one pair of hands each!

  114. The results are not surprising. The only really great desktops left in the open-source world are KDE and Cinnamon because A) they respect Universal Access font settings and do not limit font size to a tiny unusable like the Unity Dash and Gnome-Shell, and B) they still use the bottom taskbar by default, so far in human history the best conceivable interface paradigm because it maximizes screen space, shows what apps you’re running by instance, allows easy (i.e. non-insivible, discoverable) management thereof, and does not contain immediately undiscoverable, and elements, and C) follows rational UI interface guidelines by placing all major clickable buttons on the screen edge, unlike Unity and Gnome-Shell, and default XFCE (in Xubuntu), or some pointless topbar LXDE variants. MATE is an old technology, and every other desktop is too minimal. Lastly, of course, D) KDE and Cinnamon share one very popular and useful default: the upper left-hand screen corner hotspot for Expose and right-side window buttons, making multi-tasking incredibly easy and sensible.

    Ergo, Cinnamon and KDE are now the most humane desktops available. Bravo to the creators of both. I believe this poll reflects the majority of computer users, if they were honestly presented with all the current options across any platform. Only the designers of Cinnamon and KDE have remained sane during this storm of irrationally designed user interfaces (Shells) that are, quite frankly, all painful to use.

  115. Used xfce as last ditch alternative to gnome 3 madness and then i came across cinnamon and been using it ever since and have no regrets(it provides me with exactly what i like: a modern DE that offers a classic,sane&logical way of working on my PC)
    PS been an avid LMDE user for quite a while now, and i can’t even begin to express my gratitude to mint team for making such a great OS(apart some occasional ‘minor bumps along the road’ its been the most problem free OS i have ever had the pleasure of using) and pairing up a mintified debian with a nice&modern DE like cinnamon the result is simply priceless, like a sweet dream coming true…

  116. For Desktop environment Cinnamon is the best choice for most common Users. Ist has the best features in Gnome 3 as follow up for Gnome 2 for desktop users. Most OS’es getting more towards functionality for tablets. Look at Windows 8 consumer preview for example wich I am not getting happy with. (while i am still using a laptop or desktop) Other option is getting an Apple notebook which is far to expensive, closed and Linux is open and even for Free(dom)!

  117. i can not decide because tooooo many options.

    will mint desktops fork to death?

    i came to mint because of gnome2 and all what comes with it. good looking, functional, simple.

    now there are these confusing options and the desktops quite similar,: cinnamon, mate, plymouth, lxde, gnome fallback…

    they are not really gnome 2 clones, missing comfy, missing look+feel…

    a but sad, soon i am going back and try xubuntu…



  118. I’m conflicted on this point. Like many people I’m still trying to figure out what works best for me. I’m currently fiddling around with Unity 5 on Ubuntu 12.04 and there are some aspects of it that I really love, such as the messaging menu–in particular how it integrates with thunderbird and empathy. For a minimalist experience I’m also really loving Englightenment, which I’m running on the wonderful Bodhi Linux. It really takes some getting used to and really is an alternative desktop experience instead of simply accepting the traditional idea of what a desktop should be. It works great on older machines and is ridiculously configurable. Still, I always seem to find myself coming back to Cinnamon. Obviously it is still quite young and has lots of room for continued development. I really hope it manages to absorb some of the ideas and features from competing desktops (i.e., Unity’s messaging menu).

    In short, my vote tentatively goes to Cinnamon, but I’m not at all adverse to Unity or even Gnome-Shell. I know lots of people like KDE but there is just something behind its whole paradigm that I can’t get behind.

  119. At last I can use Linux Mint 12 (64 bit) in full option and speed by upgrading the onboard video (unsupported SiS) to a PCI-e (nVidia) and the use of a SSD,at the moment I use Cinnamon as desktop environment.

  120. Here is what I think of the environments I have tried.

    unity<Gnome shell<windows vista<<<NO COMPUTER<windows 7<KDE<windows XP<Gnome fallback<MATE<Mac OSX<XFCE<Gnome 2<Cinnamon

    Maybe the latest versoin of mate will be above mac and xfce, but I haven't tried it yet. It will pass Gnome 2 when it is fully ported, free of bugs, and they start to update it beyond Gnome 2.

    Cinnamon is, by default, the desktop I used to create Gnome 2, only nicer:)

  121. voted for LXDE. I think Cinnamon is great and the future of it is looking good. I just think it should not require a 3D graphics card to work. This I think is a drawback of this DE. I mean, if I have an old system without a 3d capable graphics card, I don’t have a choice but to not use it even if I like it. I’m still looking forward to Linux Mint 13 LXDE. More Power Mint Team!

  122. i like KDE, but it is too heavy on the RAM, so i gave it a miss. am trying LXDE, XFCE, cinnamon, gnome fallback and mate in that order, undecided yet. i just loved gnome 2- easy clear layout of -applications- places- system. why abandon a good thing?

  123. Mate and Cinnamon are very beautiful desktop environments !!!
    Xfce is very fast !!!

    !!! they are all fantastic !!! Great 🙂

  124. I voted for KDE, and I very hope that results of this poll will be a stimulus for Linux Mint developers to treat KDE as one of the main environmants for the distribution, equally with Cinnamon.

  125. I voted for KDE, and I hope very much, that the results of this poll will be a stimulus for Linux Mint developers to treat KDE as one of the main environments for the distribution, equally with Cinnamon.


    Elegance is now Ubuntu, my dears..

  127. Gnome Shell. Probably the best and nicests DE I’ve used. Glad to see it score so high (20%) ..just shows that the whiners are the loudest, but the minority. Too bad I had to drop Mint though, no love for Gnome Shell.

  128. I’m a LXDE user and tend to mostly use it.

    for recent laptops, with 3 to 6GB memory and a fast 5400rpm hard drive, I installed Mint 12 with MGSE or an older LMDE, but now will install the new LMDE with MATE/Cinnamon combo.
    this for other people as I won’t own a laptop, except maybe a very light solid state netbook.

    on a desktop or netbook, I want the computer to be as fast and powerful as possible, and I need less “comfort”. so LXDE suits my tastes and needs.

  129. Mate n compiz don go well 2gether!hard on my resources n it would be better 2 replace it with gnome2!!thx

  130. I’ve used mint 9 since it’s launch. I tried and liked gnome shell with mgse, but that is now discontinued. It looks like I’ll be using gnome shell in ubuntu 12.04 and kubuntu for kde. Cinnamon and Mate are good for the folks that like gnome 2 and who have older computers, but not much good for those of us who like to continue learning and using new technology. I’ll use mint 13 when it comes out to replace mint 9 on systems I’ve set up for my friends who need a easy to use system. Cinnamon would get my vote for your best new desktop.

  131. after the gnome3/unity bummer hit; i tried my hand at ArchLinux and Openbox, preparing for the inevitable loss of practical computing. i have been using it very comfortably ever since. Looking forward to getting to know MINT w/ Mate (viva G2.32) and Cinnamon. Arch/OB was there when i needed it and will always own a piece of real estate in my heart… right next to the Mint team. You do awesome work! Always looking forward to new releases (esp. LMDE – rolling release=sweet)

  132. I’ve been using Linux Mint Lxde on my approximately four-year-old netbook (MSI Wind U100-432US). Currently, I’m using 11 “Katya”, but I am planning to upgrade soon to 12 “Lisa”.

    I used to use Linux Mint Xfce on my netbook. Version 9, “Isadora”, was Ubuntu-based. It seemed more lightweight than Xubuntu, and I felt that it was ideal for my computer.

    If I knew how to customise my Lxde install with some sort of Xfce desktop environment/theme/window manager, I’d consider doing so.

  133. On my old pc (512 ram, pentium 4 100 gb hdd) I use Cinnamon.
    On my new pc (laptop intel core i3, 3 gb ram 300 gb hdd) I Use Gnome Shell

    🙂 both are amazing

  134. @Rüssel, I think it’s because Gnome 2.32 was released before iOS 5.1 came out. So naturally, it doesn’t know about it.

    If Gnome 2.32 doesn’t work for you, then neither will Mate. But if Gnome 2.32 does work for you, then so will Mate.

    Mate is just Gnome 2.32 renamed.

    Note: It has to be renamed because the files in Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 have the same names.

  135. Clem, AFAIK Mate is based on Gnome 2.32. However in Comment 31 you said that it is based on the much older Gnome 2.3 which is obsolete. Can you clarify if this is indeed what you meant?

  136. Clem, I think this poll is easy to manipulate. As an experiment I voted several times and it counted my vote each time. I only needed to clear the cookie. I don’t think this is a good way to find out what people are using.

  137. I use LM12 with Cinnamon on my old Dell Latitude D630.

    My wife uses the same on her even older IBM ThinkPad (a T43, if I remember correctly).

    We like it because it looks nice, works smoothly, and [dons flame-retardant suit] somewhat resembles Windows XP which, we both used previously.

    Thanks for your work, Mint team.

  138. mint11 is still the best! after that, im desperate. I have tried a lot but nothing seem to be good.I feel like have knowed the perfection and nothing will be good agan.

    plz LTS mint 11 !!!!!!!!!!

    (and the “its old” is an invalid argument to abandon G 2.32. even is gonme was invented before the computer, if its do the job it, to it )

  139. @Bamm-127
    I think the same too. My guess is that Clem meant Gnome 2.30, not Gnome 2.3, but it’s based off of Gnome 2.32 as far as I know, so I’m not sure what he meant.
    I also agree with this. As I said in my earlier comment, internet polls don’t really show the true answer, and this poll is even worse because you can revote. I think the inaccuracy of this poll is shown by how many people use KDE. I’m pretty sure most new users, who are some of the people who Mint targets, just use the main edition.

  140. @Brahim Salem: regarding splash screen. i know this is off topic but SolusOS has a nifty splash screen that seems to work on any pc i run it on. not sure how and what iKey used it to work but a splash screen definately does polish of the OS loadup i.e i took this splash screen for granted until i booted into windows after 6 months and i must say that Win 7 and XP splash screen look so professional

  141. I gave up on Gnome 3 since it can’t do a pre-defined 2-dimensional set of virtual desktops. It is auto-allocation system is horrible.

    Unity & HUD have gotten some good reviews lately, so I will be giving them another try on 12.04. But I am done with Gnome forever.

  142. Gnome 3…. plz, I got a 23 inch screen without touchscreen and i want to be productive. It’s not designed for me.(stability will come)
    so Im Stick on Mint11 as long as i can. If you make gnome 3 behave exactly like Gnome 2.32 i will switch.

    KDE will probably be your only choice. Theres to much Gnome3 haters and the rest are simple/light desktop. Its not going forward with elegance and innovation.

    I know its hard time for Mint devs. Mint can lose a lots of users and big decisions have to be made. I beleve in you guys and girls!

  143. I just installed LMDE from the .iso that was released the other day. MATE is an absolute revelation. I can’t pinpoint what the difference is, but while I liked it a whole lot in Linux Mint 12, in LMDE I’m stone in love with it.

  144. For the past year or so I have been using Openbox. I also occasionally use sawfish(technically not a DE but then niter is any *box WM). I like the direction cinnamon is headed in so I checked that one also (plan to use it in the future)

  145. So, basically, some people say that us, KDE users, are cheaters and generally dishonest people, unlike those who use other desktop environments. And to prove their point, they voted not just once or twice, but several times, messing up with the result.

    Grow up.

  146. The DE that I use depends on what I’m doing. At work, I’m an embedded software and driver developer so I routinely have dozens of windows open across 8 workspaces. I tried to switch to Gnome3 and/or Cinnamon but the dynamic workspace thing kills me so I’m still using Gnome2 there. Guess I’ll use Xfce or go back to Enlightenment when I have to upgrade those systems.

    At home, I use Cinnamon. It’s a little rough around the edges when it comes to configuration but I like it okay for my non-development machines.

  147. Still using Mint Isadora, so far I prefer LMDE MATE with its easy use Add-Ons bottom Panel, which is a lot better than Ubuntu Precise’s multi-click complexity and single instance application desktops. (I like having ‘before and after’ instances of FireFox or Writer desktops.)
    Looking forward to Mint Maya !

  148. a pole is a good thing not something to be taken for granted. I mean Clem and the team works hard on Linux Mint and they really need to know what people want in a desktop not just what one or two people what buy making the pole go there way. Come on people we or better than this. I mean if you just what to have one persons make up the mine of what your desktop look like go back to Windows and brother Bill will take care of that for you. Sorry Clem and team you should not have to put up with this.

  149. I voted for KDE (only once). When I voted it was in second place, but I did notice when I returned 20 mins later that it had jumped into first by a fair bit, which surprised me.

  150. Clem, you tried to be nice and have everyone’s opinion and someone took useless advantage. The next best thing is to move it to the forums and only registered users should get to vote on it.

  151. clem cinnamon by and large is the best of the new crop of de available. Its fast and there is a minimal learning curve. I vote for cinnamon on lmde!
    thanks for all the hard work and time and effort you and the crew put into this and the other mint distros.

  152. “Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.” -Rich Cook

  153. If Linux Mint is ok with it, I’m ok with it..ahaha
    How bad can it possibly get?

    Can’t wait for Maya!!!
    I got a feeling I’mma love it.

  154. I think you should add a poll section for Trinity Desktop Environment otherwise it wouldn’t be fair to that community.

  155. @ everybody: See remark from Clem at the top. Can the Linux Mint Forums poll mentioned by Esteban be manipulated as well??

  156. Of course, in total as always. KDE users clocked up to vote, and vote for the Cinnamon honestly. I can’t believe it. 1695 for Cinnamon, 1526 for KDE. KDE is just not surprised by the leaders, but Cinnamon calls into question its 42% (32%). Maybe the developers Cinnamon (Mint team) is beneficial to their DE was first, accused of vote cheat other DE (kde).
    And there is no need to write that KDE users are cheaters. This is not the case.

    Edit by Clem: It’s not the results that were surprising, it’s the huge bump over time (KDE went from 14% to 32% in less than an hour). From the very beginning of the poll Cinnamon was at around 40%, so it surprised us as well, but it didn’t look like there had been any manipulation there. Anyway, I wouldn’t see a point in organizing a poll if I was to be partial and disregard the results to only see what I want to see.

  157. Gnome 3 Shell + some extensions like MGSE

    Gnome es el escritorio que nos gusta y hay que centrarnos en el nuevo camino que nos muestran, mejorándolo…. y no perder el tiempo en otras opciones que nos anclan al pasado y que tienen alternativas con ya un largo recorrido (XFCE/LXDE)

    Centrarse en lograr una integración total del escritorio que el equipo de Gnome nos propone y la maravillosa Debian Testing.

  158. I’m really liking the latest LMDE with Mate.
    I also like the new ‘Matrix’ theme boot splash. It is handy to see the progress during boot and handy to see where the time is spent.

  159. Estoy usando Linux Mint 12, con escritorio Gnome-Fallback. Me ofrece principalmente la usabilidad y la estética de Gnome2, y el uso de su menú de siempre.
    Para mi, que soy usuario de portátil, me importa mucho que se puedan seguir usando los applets, especialmente los de control de temperatura y velocidad de la CPU (lo que es esencial en un portátil, ya que se calientan mucho)
    Uno de los mayores errores al lanzar gnome3, es que no permite la compatibilidad con los applets de gnome2.
    De momento, seguiré usando Gnome-Fallback, pero seria interesante que Linux Mint recupere el sensors-applet, para monitorizar la temperatura en todo momento y mantenga el applet CPUFreq para cambiar la frecuencia del procesador, sea cual sea el escritorio que vaya a usar.

  160. @Esteban, only 200 or so people have voted there so far. Where are the others? The poll on this page had way over a thousand votes before Clem closed it. If we encourage all to vote there, we will have a better result.

    On the other hand, Clem specifically removed Gnome2 from the list because it is deprecated. But that poll created by forum member guimaster was started in February and includes Gnome2.

    Perhaps Clem should just start a new poll with his choices?

  161. @Clem : There is a saying everything happens for good. So the poll got manipulated. Now that the whole poll got infructuous. I think we should start thinking from the start.

    I love Mint but its time to echo my voice with some users who have come out clearly in favour of Gnome-3 and Unity. Gnome-3 and especially Unity has come a long way. Now Gnome-3 specially MGSE has not seen any update while the Cinnamon which is more like MGSE has matured more and now more usable. But what is the future of Cinnamon, every time when there is gon’na be new release of Gnome, Cinnamon has to be fork again, so are we gon’na start from zero or may be 20-40% to 100% every time. I know you have put so much of hardwork on Cinnamon just for us and Cinnamon has come to half way. But can we say that Cinnamon will be 100% workable specially when every now and then Gnome is gon’na change? If Cinnamon is gon’na achieve the same status as Gnome-2, then I would say stick to it.

    Why I said all the above because we wanted LM-13 to either take Gnome or Unity to another Mintified level. As we used to know Mint. Please don’nt take it that I am favouring any distro, its just a suggestion, when something is good its good.

    @To the guy who manipulated the vote. I am also a fan of KDE. But you should have seen the percentage of KDE users first its 6.4% of total mint community. What you might be thinking its never gon’na happen boy. If you have to cheat its in a way that no one doubts it. You have done too much in your passion for KDE. Ha ha ha haha I can’nt stop my laughing. I don’nt know about the others, but I enjoyed it hoo ha haha ha. Oh boys someone has to stop me from laughing. In Linux Mint and other Forums we (KDE users) are always in the minority and always will be. The moment you accept this fact, all the problem will go.

    I think now I should find a place to hide now. There are gon’na be bombardments.

  162. Thank you for requesting user opinions! And how sad that someone tried to take advantage. As I enjoy using Mint, I will try and give you as much helpful information as possible…

    At the moment I have old hardware so use xfce or lxde. Both of these work fine (my main computer is a Pentium 4 with 1GB RAM) – GIMP seems to work oddly in xfce with multiple workspaces (the docks appear on all workspaces), but doesn’t cause problems.

    The way I like my desktop laid out is very different to the standard layout provided by all the mint editions at the moment, so I have to change the settings. Not in itself a problem, but occasionally I run into bugs which have not been spotted because they don’t affect your layout.

    It’s worth pointing out that when I first moved from Windows I wanted my desktop to look different from Windows, so I gravitated towards gnome2 with the top panel rather than kde. It might therefore be nice to have the different de/wm options to each have a different default mint layout theme (whilst keeping other aspects the same for an overall identity) so that people can immediately see that they have different layout options available if they are new to linux. Transparency looks pretty too!!

    Other people have been mentioning the splash screen, so I will too… Currently in LMDE I have the text visible during boot: this looks old-fashioned but I can see what’s going on, and that my computer is just slow, not dead! I think the black screen is very scary for people for this reason – there is nothing to show that something is happening.

    I’m currently planning to upgrade my hardware, and then I will probably use cinnamon or kde. Likely to be kde at first because my computer is primarily a tool rather than a toy so I need it to be stable, and from what I’ve heard cinnamon is not quite there yet. I also seem to be using a lot of applications which use qt libraries rather than gtk, so kde integrates nicely with them.

    Hope that helps!

  163. @Clem : off topic but i was asking myself the question : have you ever considered forking Unity ? Or was it too much work or an inapropriate way to follow ?

    Just asking because Unity doesn’t seem so far from gnome panel after all. It uses which is stable. A dev newbie like me thinks that it would be easy to write a menu applet and re-organise the dock to have something viable as a gnome 2 alternative but maybe i am wrong.


  165. I have LM9 64 bit installed on my main i7 980x cpu + 12Gb ram PC, and since installing this LTS version when it first came out, have got it exactly as I want/need it, including (sorry but need MS Access for work) windows XP and 7 running in VirtualBox. Faced with the demise of Gnome 2, and the less than ideal successor in Gnome 3, I recognised that at some point (but definitely not before April 2013) that a replacement for LM9 was needed.
    I have been installing on another reasonably high spec 2nd PC, most of the most recent/popular current distro’s as multiboot on separate drives, and am experimenting and comparing each of them and their various desktops including KDE (and some to point of breakage).
    Without looking at LM13 LTS (which may be a contender), I have more or less settled on LMDE 64 bit as a long term distro , but find myself logging in and out to change from Cinnamon to MATE and back as each has its merits dependant on what I want to do. Think Cinnamon is favourite for me at moment, but both desktops will become more polished, and MATE with (if possible) full Compiz functionality would likely be my final choice.

    Thanks to Clem and all the team and other people who put in so much enthusiasm into making Mint such a superb system.

  166. I’m posting these percentage numbers since they jibe with Clem’s “last known results” numbers.

    2-Fluxbox (*box)
    6-Gnome Fallback
    22-Gnome Shell

    These are the numbers that I saw just after I voted at 8 am EDT F1204.27 (yesterday morning). This was apparently one and a half hours after the poll was posted. There were a total of 532 votes (and 15 comments) at that time.

    About 20 minutes later (~8:20 am EDT) the numbers were almost identical. If memory serves, only a couple numbers changed and those very little (one percent). At this point there were about 750 votes. I marveled to myself how a small sample set can be indicative of the general population and maintain that over time with more votes. This seems to indicate that these numbers are accurate (or as accurate as possible for this type of poll).


    Now, to the person who stuffed the ballot box:

    Bad, bad, bad! Wrong, wrong, wrong! You knew what you were doing was wrong, and you did it anyway! We live in a community here, and we all need to act in a responsible way. Whether the community is separated by streets and houses or by TCP/IP stacks, we are all in this together. Your actions affect other people. You need to think before you act. Do you understand?

    Now march yourself into the corner, look at the wall, and stay there for 5 minutes (one minute for each year of maturity). And while you’re there, *think* about what you’ve done!

    And when your 5 minutes are done, you go to your mommy, tell her what you did, and ask her for a lesson in manners.

    And, after that, if you really want to show yourself as a maturing member of this community, you go to Clem and *apologize* to him and the Mint community for your behavior.

    that shouldn’t be so hard. Even though we don’t always agree here, we are a friendly, helpful group. And I hope that all agree that we want to move on from this small unpleasantness and move forward.

    Edit by Clem: Ah, thanks a lot for these figures. I only had a vague memory of them and these look accurate indeed.

  167. @Martial-149
    Gnome shell is written in JavaScript, whereas Unity is written in Vala, C++, and QML (I think QML is the 2d version). Gnome shell was, because it was written in javascript, very extensible by nature. For whatever reason, it is very hard to change unity. Gnome Shell was very easy to change because of its nature, so it provided a good base for Cinnamon. It also made Cinnamon inherit gnome shell’s flexible nature.

  168. @Chris : ok, thanks a lot for the information.
    I don’t know about anything technicaly, but isn’t C++ more powerfull than Javascript ? i mean speed speaking as it is more hardware-sided language ?

  169. @Martial-153
    I think so, but I’m not a dev, I just have a general understanding. JavaScript (I think) is an interpreted language, meaning (again, I think) that it’s slower. C++ is very powerful, most likely a lot more so than JavaScript. However, I don’t know if Clem and the mint devs are comfortable with programing in C++, as they’ve made most of their tools in Python (and Cinnamon/MGSE in JavaScript). Another thing to consider is that Unity is for Ubuntu, and it could be extremely hard to port it to LMDE if they were going to fork unity.

  170. Yes i think you are right. (i think so !)
    Maybe Javascript is only for the templating side of the desktop like for a website.

    Maybe Clem will tell us more.


  171. Why so many changes?
    Why does not Linux Mint just typical adjustments to the new Gnome 3 without a totally new system based on a different system?

    Just like the good idea to Mint basing on Debian and Ubuntu to delete.

    Accept Gnome 3 as it is.
    Simply create typical Mint improvements without completely rebuilding the system, I would say …

    Stay near the base, as you now sit close to Debian …

  172. KDE 4.8 is my favorite DE to use, though it seems to drain my netbook’s battery the fastest. So I run KDE when I have AC power, which is almost all the time really, and usually XFCE when I’m on battery. XFCE with cairo-dock and no panel is a pretty nice setup for me. The early KDE 4 was a bit of a mess, and until it matured, GNOME was the DE closest to what I wanted. The recent scramble to make something usable out of GNOME 3 was what induced me to give KDE another try, and I’m glad I did.

  173. HaHaHaaa, I thought my comment on Qt/C++ made people vote for KDE, it was such a rise, from 18 to 33, too bad it has been manipulated, I will head to the forums poll with the same technical comment, hopefully making a good stand for the very customizable KDE.

  174. > Who can afford to buy a new graphics card

    Anyone with US$30 can get a GeForce 210. Fanless models are just a few dollars more,

  175. @Scyer
    No, MATE is not gnome 2. Mate is a general rename of apps, functions and libraries so that youcan run something similar to gnome 2 in systems with gnome 3 installed.
    MATE is still very far from offering everything that gnome 2 offer (not to mention compiz).
    Gnome 2 IS the real thing, and there is absolutely no reason to use MATE on a system that has no gnome 3 installed.
    MATE’s popularity is, oddly enough, detrimental to the survival of gnome 2, which is, as i said earlier, the real thing.

  176. @Mustafa Yes, Cinnamon and Gnome-shell are written in javascript, the same javascript used to code 95% of Firefox. And KDE is written in C++, the same C++ used in Microsoft Internet Explorer.
    It doesn’t matter WHICH programming language is used to write a software, what really matters is HOW WELL it was written!

  177. @Esteban I know that writing software is more about the programmer than about programming language, but the right toolkit make software better and easier to maintain.

  178. the experience out of several installations esp. with older persons and not so experienced were:
    – less information is more (Gnome3 concept instead of KDE, NOT Windof style)
    – mostly used items and clicks should be close to each other
    – less clicks is better
    – workspaces are a nice thing for experienced persons, but not for standard users
    – printer support and configuration in Gnome3 needs reworking (system-config-printer not in use)
    – Unity of 12.04 has nice improvements, esp. with the menu or task switcher

    I personally like the tab functionality of nautilus !

    Probably it’s an idea to open the menu with the mouse into the corner like in Gnome3?

  179. Would a knowledgeable Linux Mint user please compose a list of definitions of all the abbreviations used in the replies to the Poll?

    Listing a few examples among the many whose meaning is not transparent
    minimally scratches the surface.


    Edit by Clem: DE (Desktop Environment), AFAIK (as far as I known), MATE (a DE which is the continuation of Gnome 2), LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition), MGSE (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions), Xfce (a lightweight DE), LXDE (another lightweight DE), QT and GTK are programming libraries, C++ is a programming language..
    I recognize that no one is going to do this but for the unwashed few,
    it would be most helpful.

    Yes I’ve heard of Google.

  180. @Eric-163
    It wasn’t that KDE was winning, it was that KDE went from losing by about 25% to KDE winning by a lot in an hour. It did a 20% jump in one hour. On top of this, it was discovered that anybody could vote as many times as they wanted just by clearing their cookies. If Cinnamon or MATE jumped 20% in an hour in a poll that isn’t secure, Clem would suspect a problem. Note that after that hour, KDE steadily fell until it was about 5 percentage points below Cinnamon. This is highly suggestive of manipulation – there was a huge jump in a small amount of time for one option in an insecure poll, and then that option started to steadily fall after that small period of time was over.

  181. To reiterate, after using and easily customizing Xfce 4.8 and Lxde I can’t see going back to any Gnome or KDE flavor. A clean, productive classic desktop rocks!

    I’m following Cinnamon development to see what useful and unique features the LM devs come up with.

  182. 1. KDE
    2. Xfce

    My first encounters with KDE left a negative impression. Default configurations of KDE are often not done well. However, LM 12 KDE changed my mind. Likewise, Xfce was nicely implemented by Mint, giving a polished and uniform appearance across applications. Both of these fine desktops deserve to be continued in future Mint editions.

  183. Well, it turns out that Ubuntu 12.04 is a major disaster. If I were Linux Mint leader project, I would focus on MATE as default and place Cinnamon as a secondary choice. Just look at Red Hat Enterprise Linux, they’re still rock solid GNOME 2, and they were clever when not updating some components with regressions, as Nautilus 2.3 have regressions and Terminal does not (eg. Nautilus = 2.28.4 while Terminal = 2.31.3).

    1) MATE
    2) Cinnamon

    And just forget the crap that is *going on* out there. Everything will fall apart.

  184. Surprisingly, Gnome Shell is at 5th place in the new poll. Could it be that all those people who voted for Gnome Shell in the original poll are not really registered Mint users?

  185. Gnome 2 since that what I’m most used to. Definitely not KDE with its components that stops responding (indexing service!) and lack of understanding of forward-backward buttons on a mouse in its file manager (unbelievable). I use mint on a couple of computers but I am not registered at the forums since I find that searching the web for solutions always brings me to the ubuntu forums.

  186. for me using Linux Mint Debian, Ubuntu and Kubuntu

    1) Gnome shell (classic)
    2) Cinnamon
    3) KDE & Unity
    4) XFCE and LXDCE
    5) Mate – meh too buggy (on my hardware)

  187. well.. i really tried cinnamon 1.4 in lmde 2012, and tried gnome shell in it, and mate..

    my opinion? back to xfce…

    my suggestion? improve xfce, improve the mint themes for xfce, improve the desktop appearence in xfce, improve the pannels in xfce so we can have an lmde working right.

    I really think its time for you, mint team, to kill *buntu and go away from it. its time to make debian a mint desktop for users. I think its time to have mint a spin of debian and using xfce as default de.

  188. sure, cinnamon is a nice de but it deppends on gnome3.. and gnome3 realy sux. imagine that gnome3 changes (a bit more) the way it works.. it will be a ultimate to cinnamon so, waste if work from mint team.

    point your efforts to what is easy and what works, so point your efforts to xfce because kde has new craps every 4~6 months, lxde is too young, gnome3 is going to the “forever alone” way… thats it. xfce is the way to go.. xfce + debian testing (with updates pack every 1 year) + mint apps + mint team behind it = happiness.

    sorry about my english.

  189. Yro has a good point that Gnome3 might change again and that will affect Cinnamon. We are therefore chasing a moving target.

    But my suggestion is to point our efforts to Mate. With Mate we can bring Linux Mint to what we initally envisioned it to be.

    The Mint community should help out stefano-k because he can’t do all the development alone. Doing so, Mint will benefit by having a true successor to Katya.

  190. Ok, lets think that mate gets mature enouth to do the jog just like our great, old, gnome2.xx, so what? how long will the community take to do something great or atleast something “good” on it? im talking about updates, new technologies, etc.

    Is it not better to put efforts on something that is evolving day by day but not going to the wrong way like others?

    see kde and its full features that nobody uses and the bugs that still comes every 4~6 months.. or gnome3 that everybody hates and the updates that it gets showing that we may never see our desktops again?

    the point here is lxde or xfce. i vote to xfce because its mature enough to be used in our desktops and its not going that way Gnome3 is, or kde with its bugs and craps…

    see my point here?

    sorry, again, about my bad english and sorry, too, about some bad words id used.

  191. Hi
    Is there any real chance of cinnamon supporting compiz?
    I havent found any of the current desktops choices to come close to gnome2+compiz 🙁 therefore im stuck with mint10, tho i would really like to upgrade.

    Actually writing this from the LMDE live cd and loving cinnamon… but missing compiz 🙂


  192. I have been playing with LMDE 201204 on my Sony Notebook with the MATE DE. This does what I need and how I like to work. However, on my desktop, where my real work is undertaken I’ve had to go to SolusOS with its Gnome 2 DE. For some reason, which I haven’t been able to fathom yet, I haven’t been able to configure Pulse Audio to the way I need it within Linux Mint’s current offerings.

    I may be in a dead end; but it works!

  193. Why don’t you just check how many people update their DE related files? I think statistics should be based on download from repositories figures. Wouldn’t this be much more reliable than a poll?

    By the way, Xfce 4.10 is out. Any chances of pushing update to Mint 12 Lisa? How about update of Mate to 1.2?

  194. One of the things LM is so great and different of the rest is its openness to the community. I really admire this fact. Thanks Clem.

    We are having this discussion for a simple reason, Gnome screw up Linux users for the desktop with Gnome3 very badly. They released an OS intended for mobile devices and in consequence dismantled the building blocks for a good desktop OS as well. In my opinion, they are too late in the mobile market, the quality of the product is far from others like the iOS from Apple and Google’s Android; Gnome3 just can’t compete as it is and doubt they will make any significant gain on this market. Sorry to say, it’s not smart enough, we all know that but trying to ignore it.

    So what is happening now? Well, while Ubuntu is in a spiral down with its Unity solution, LM is trying to put lipstick on a pig (Gnome3) and see which pig looks the best like it if were a beauty contest. I don’t undermine the effort and dedication of LM to deliver a solution, not at all, au contraire, my hat off to Clem for his dedication, effort and for trying so hard. But I have the feeling he is wasting resources and time just to please us.

    Lets be clear, we are painting ourselves in a corner in here. There are some solutions besides Gnome3, but for some reason we are obsessed on bringing to life the old glories of Gnome2.x and this is not reasonable, it could bring down LM in an spiral too if we don’t change the curse. Maybe it’s time for Clem to put the cards on the table before is to late. No matter how much lipstick you put in to a pig, will still be a pig at the end of the day. And this is the sad reality.

    Cheers to all of you.

  195. Yro, perhaps you think that Mate’s goal is just to duplicate Gnome 2.32? No. Its goal is to continue development of Gnome 2.32. In fact, it has already added features like an Undo in File Manager. There are even plans to port it to gtk3.

    So Mate is evolving day by day and will never go the wrong way, because it is based on stable libraries and represents a logical continuation of Gnome2 which is what Clem had been using from the start of Mint.

  196. @Clem : I have two complaints in regard to this vote.

    1. This time also the voting can be manipulated (although not as much as the earlier one). Just I need to have multiple email accounts, and I can vote. I just voted from my two email accounts, and the votes were added. Due to some gaming reasons, I got multiple email account around 16-17. Plus for the same reason I also have the access to my friends email account that may also be around the same. I mentioned this just to show that if someone want, he can manipulate it also. That’s the other reason that he may not be helping you and, lying to itself.

    2. What I noticed that even if I like KDE, while voting last time I also voted for KDE, MATE & Cinnamon. I also noticed from user comments on this blog, most of them are doing the same thing. If one like XFCE he is voting XFCE, MATE & Cinnamon. Likewise, users who like gnome-shell or Unity they are also voting Gnome-shell, Cinnamon and ****. So it seems that Cinnamon is common among users to vote for it. So the result is even if I don’nt use XFCE or other users who don’nt use KDE or Unity or Cinnamon most of them are voting for Cinnamon. Hence, the Cinnamon percentage is going higher. I hope that you got my point. Now please don’nt take it that I am against Cinnamon. In fact we are always here for Linux Mint.

    Suggestion :-

    1. If there has to be any voting the users have to be given only single voting option. Users may not be allowed to tick on multiple option. Only then a true picture will come.

    2. Now this voting at least to me does not solve the problem, especially when there is so much options to tick. There is no need to put KDE and some other options there (now KDE lovers are gon’na hate me). Because every time when there is gon’na be release of Kubuntu, LM-KDE will also be released (hope so). So, what’s the point putting KDE there, unless you have something else in your mind (which I am not able to see right now).

    There are lot so say, but this may become very long. I think this much should be enough to understand my point.

  197. @manny, you said that the pig is Gnome3. In that case, only Cinnamon is putting lipstick on a pig, to use your analogy. Mate is not based on Gnome3. So we are not comparing two pigs on lipstick. Gnome2 hasn’t died, just renamed. Open source projects never die as long as there are people who maintain it.

  198. @Bamm. Gnome2 is dead. MATE is a fork working on Gnome3 that provides a similar UI and function then Gnome2 so we can say it is a lipstick as well. As mentioned by Clem he is considering releasing 2 versions in the next LM13, one based on MATE and the other on Cinnamon just to try to please everyone. If that would happen the main edition will be fragmented into 2 UI flavours. As a community, are we asking to much from Clem? Lets try to be realistic and start exploring better choices.


  199. I like KDE it is just too beautiful to pass up. I would like it to be a bit easier to use but I trust that linuxmint’s great crew will do that as time allows. I played with the others but I am sold on KDE.

  200. @manny

    You’re wrong. Mate is Gnome2 renamed and has nothing to do with gnome 3. It’s Cinnamon that’s trying to bring back a little gnome 2 with gnome 3 under the hood.

  201. Cinnamon of course,we need a desktop managed by sane people!. 😉
    And we also need a scrollable brightness applet!.

    Firefox only in English since the update to version 12,cant change it to Swedish even if the language pack is installed and activated.

  202. I’m not sure whether this or the forums is better so I’ll repeat here: MATE + LMDE is the obvious way forward. The last release is PHENOMENAL. Reminds me of Mint 10, in all the good ways.

  203. I am new to all of this but I see that one has to download XFCE and Mate/Cinnamon so how to they combine into the same program? Is there not one package that has all the components?




  205. @manny, Mate is forked from Gnome 2.32. And all the files, packages, and libraries have been renamed, in order not to conflict with existing installations of Gnome 3.

  206. @rhY, yes I agree. That’s why Mint13 with Mate will be the logical continuation of Mint11 Katya. Mint12 Lisa was just a bump in the road.

    The default of Maya should be Mate for continuity. Cinnamon is new and deserves all the praise but should be another edition.

  207. I’m happy to use Mint-11 with a pretty desktop face, very usable and high customizable. I”m just only a linux user since Suse-8.0, Mandrake, Open-Suse, PC-Linux-OS, ubuntu, and hereafter with Linux Mint.

    Mint 12 with Gnome 3, Mate or cinnamon are DE with more pretty and beautiful face than mint-11 …. but it’s lack of usable, not even customizable, I cannot use it on everyday office … and sometimes it’s get stuck (full of bug :-)). After several hours try mint-12 or ubuntu-11, LM-11 still the best for me.

    so I think you should stay to develop high customizable, usable, and more stable for gnome-3 …. not to build new DE with other bug :-))

    sorry for my english 🙂

  208. @The_Lord_Of_Knowledge, as a user, I honestly do not like the name Mate either. Neither do I like Caja or Pluma, because I would prefer if they chose simpler English words. However, renaming them again would set us back to square one and bring back all those bugs caused by the initial renaming from gnome to mate. Furthermore, your choice of Hobbit seems arbitrarily chosen by you, so we should give preference to the name chosen by Perberos, which is Mate, because it was he who did all the initial work. I also thank stefano-k for doing all the later work on Mate. It has really improved.

  209. The_Lord_Of_Knowledge@258

    I don’t know how the Mint team perceives this post, but in my neck of the woods, composing messages in all caps sends a particular message all by itself, and it’s as if you are yelling at the recipient.

    Besides, there are hugely more important things to worry about than the name of a particular release at this stage.

    Also, I’m not sure I understand your other request. When you requested: “PLEASE, ADOPT DEBIAN AS UPSTREAM, AND LET GO OF CANONICAL.”, are you suggesting that Mint dump the Main Edition, or is there some elements of LMDE that are still connected to Canonical? I ask this in all sincerity because I didn’t realize that LMDE had any ties with Canonical. And to simply dump the Main Edition right now would be foolish, and make it difficult for many users. Please clarify.

  210. hi developers,

    I am honest and I don’t like MATe at all. It uses far too much CPU-Powre and so I switched by kto Gnome-Shell and Cinnamon. I don’t need MATE!! Pleas give us back Gnome-Shell as default!! It is really engough to install Cinnamon-Desktop after the basic install via Synaptic and this isn’t difficult!!

    And I am happy to tell everybody who does not need MATE-Desktop, that it can easily be uninstalled and then CPU-usage comes back to normal. I don’t really know, why this power-usage is so unbalanced in MATE?? Why is that and how can it be corrected?? I don’t find something like a power-manager for MATE in Synaptic. Where do yi get it otherwise??

    But as long as this is like this, I only use Gnome-Shell and Cinnamon. And please: withdraw MATE-Desktop from the standard-Disc!! It is unnecessary!! There should be made an alternate-Disc with MATE-Desktop.


  211. This morning, I installed LMDE on the home PC, and only had enough time to explore the Mate DE. So far, it looks very promising, much better than the last time I gave it a spum, which, admittedly, has been some time ago.

    As some of you know, I’ve tried LM12-KDE, and for the most part, I really like it. I do have a couple of pesky problems however. First, and most importantly, 3D rendering isn’t quite right from my observation. And yes, Nvidia drivers have been successfully installed. I also tried this on Kubuntu 12.04 with the same results.
    Also, configuring panel shortcuts is a bit unforgiving if you end up dropping something in the wrong place. It’s not always easy to backup.

    If I can successfully install the Nvidia drivers on the LMDE-MATE machine tonight, and 3D rendering looks like it should, I will be compelled to change my vote in favor of MATE. I will also explore Cinnamon, and update you on my experience, but it’s doubtful that I will like it as much as MATE. I have LM12 with Cinnamon installed on a work PC, and it’s been fully updated. I’ve seen the obvious improvements with applets, panel edit mode, etc., but would like to see the panel even more configurable, like sizing. There are plenty more important things missing for me, but I’ve mentioned them countless times, and it’s time to stop beating a dead horse.

    In the 15 minutes I was able to spend with LMDE-MATE before going to work, I have renewed excitement for the near future. Again, I will more fully test it over the next few days, and perhaps post my change of vote in a more official way.

    To my KDE friends, manny, bobby, and others: KDE feels most complete, and despite what many users say, it is completely usable. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to get over the 3D hump. If had to guess, it’s somehow related to maybe the xscreensaver daemon specific to KDE, or something like that. And it may be even more specific to gl screensavers, and how they are handled in KDE. In this day and age, perhaps 3D screensavers sound silly, but I like using them to visually test graphics performance. It helps me to know that things are working well together, and that if an important 3D application calls for it, then it will work like expected.

  212. @ 255: Kristian:

    “Kristian Says:
    April 29th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Cinnamon of course,we need a desktop managed by sane people!. 😉
    And we also need a scrollable brightness applet!.

    Firefox only in English since the update to version 12,cant change it to Swedish even if the language pack is installed and activated.”

    You say, that you can’t switch to swedish language, even if the language-pack is installed. But: the thing is, that you only did the first step. You did not do the second one. 😀
    In your language-support-tool, you have to select swedish in the second step and set swedish as the system-language!! Then your system will be swedish!! 😀

    Just do this second step also and your problem will be fixed!!


  213. @PB : Its good to see that you are trying LMDE-MATE again. The difference between earlier MATE and 1.2 is huge. With compiz effects working again (of course not all) but maximum of them, I would say that we are almost at home (gnome-2). After this MDM update the speed has also increased. The speed of LMDE is better than Ubuntu based LM editions. And frankly after this update I did not even touch the Cinnamon.

    As regards Nvidia drivers, yeh, there is still some problem in LMDE. On my computer nvidia in LMDE is not working perfectly. Interestingly, LMDE using nvidia driver 295, while Ubuntu/ Kubuntu, LM-KDE are still using nvidia driver 173 and post-updated. If you find any solution please tell me also.

    PB I always say that I am fan of KDE. But every user has different need, test and liking and I respect to that. Me and Manny will never gon’na force anyone to use KDE just because we like it. And you are right in KDE there is problem in 3D rendering, even if nvidia driver is installed properly. If some time you are free then please tell me how and from where to install these 3D screensavers. This seems interesting. I would also like to test them.

    In the end, I would say that the way MATE is working now and LM-13 to be based on Ubuntu (hope I am right) and nvidia driver which is not working properly in LMDE but will be working in LM-13 main. My vote (choosing single option) will definitely go to MATE. – Regards

  214. It’s KDE for me, but only recently!

    I’ve used quite a few Linux distros and was very impressed with all the versions of Mint, but not so much with LM12. It is too heavy on the graphics and not all drivers that worked perfectly well in LM11 work in LM12. That said I love Linux Mint 12 and will continue to support and spread the word when I can. Fantastic work!

  215. bobby@266

    i like to install the lattice screensaver which is a part of rss-glx screensavers. it’s available from package manager. just search for rss-glx, and you will find it. my main PC is LM9-Gnome, and I currently have Nvidia-295 driver installed. by default, the frame rate of lattice is not very fast, but that screensaver is almost hypnotizing, especially on a big screen. it’s very fluid if all is well, especially if you have enough video memory. my current card has 1GB of video memory, while my older card had 512MB. i had an even older card years ago with just 128MB, and it was still impressive, even though not quite as nice as with the heavier cards. i haven’t noticed a difference between the two newest cards on the LM9-Gnome machine.

    However, on LM12-KDE, and even Kubuntu 12.04, there is a noticeable difference–namely that the lattice screen saver is rendering almost like my card has just 64MB or less of ram–very jerky. i increased several performance settings in nvidia-settings to maximum, and i even played with the screensaver settings in xscreensaver to see if i could tweak it–all to no avail. as far as i know, LM10 and even LM11 with Gnome DE work just fine, even with older drivers like you said. incidentally, i noticed the same behavior with many of the other screensavers that get installed with that package, you just have to look closer. lattice reveals itself very easily since it is very busy. some people might think lattice is a silly screensaver, what with a chain of donuts, or other objects flying around, but think it is very revealing when it comes to 3D graphics behavior.

    like i said in the other post, it could actually have to do with xscreensaver and gl screensavers running in KDE, or perhaps another combination of things.

    btw, i’ve never felt like you and manny force KDE on anyone. instead i appreciate your realistic view that it is quite usable, and offers a viable option. of course, mint makes it even more attractive with the finishing touches.

    i will let you know what happens with LMDE. if i can get graphics installed, i have a feeling that MATE might display 3D rendering just fine. we’ll see.

  216. @PB : Since right now I am using LMDE-MATE, I installed this screen saver. On the first instance while using Lattice I could not notice any problem in 3rd rendering, but while focusing to find any fault, I noticed 1-2 lines (which one can notice only on careful look). I will also be trying this in KDE, although right now it is in my VB. Inform you in the morning. Thanks.

  217. @ 267:Mintkatze
    Yes my language support-tool is set to Swedish,but it doesnt help,its only firefox this concerns,tried uninstall/reinstall firefox and its language packs,but that didnt help either.Translations and languages in general seems to have taken a hit since the Gnome3 shift,its quite mixed up,at least in my case,this is also the case with Cinnamon so far,but translations are coming soon i hope.Now back to topic!. 😉

  218. KDE – I’ve gone there since Gnome 2’s demise and I haven’t looked back. I’ve been a light linux user since Mint 9 so I’m still very much new to all this.

    I left Mint 11 for Kubuntu but came back to Mint 12 KDE (Thanks for deciding on providing for KDE users guys!).

    I’m looking forward to Mint 13 KDE (fingers crossed they develop one!)
    I’m already trialing Kubuntu LTS KDE, but there are issues I hope don’t turn up in Mint 13 KDE.

    Couple of questions…
    Will the the next release be an LTS release? Where can I get info on 13?
    I’m also keen on trying cinnamon and mate again on my current Mint 12 KDE desktop, will I be able to add those to my KDE desktop post install simply to trial them?
    Or would a seperate install be the way to go?

    Thanks and love your work!

  219. @272 Kristian:

    Oh OK. I found the same thing out here. Firefox was english and the rest of the system german.
    But I found help for me here:
    perhaps you need to search for a swedish language-pack in the Internet. This seems to be a firefox-bug!!

    Thanks for telling me!!


  220. @ 268 bobby,

    I just read about your nvidia-problem: I use the version post-release-updates and I do not encounter any problem!! I would recommend you, also to use this version, because it contains all latest updates

    Greetings from

  221. @bobby,

    installed nvidia 295 graphics from synaptic in LMDE-MATE. at first, it was absolutely terrible. but i restarted again, and the lattice screensaver was almost perfect. like you said, there is a break about 1/4 down across the entire screen. other than that, it was very smooth.

    however, i found a conflict if you will. of course compiz won’t start unless i run “compiz –replace” in terminal, and if i add that to startup applications, compiz will start each time. there is probably a better way to do this, but no matter. it turns out that when compiz is running, my 3D screensavers are absolutely terrible. it’s as if compiz is taking every once of gpu power that i have away from all other processes.

    i logged into a cinnamon session, which seemed to behave reasonably well on the 3d front, although not perfect. on the other hand, i couldn’t find out how to launch lattice, even after installing xscreensaver. lattice was not added to the selection there, so i have no idea how to configure it so see how it behaves in cinnamon.

    i see that Mintkatze made a suggestion to install post release drivers, but i’m not familiar with how to do that in LMDE since jockey is not included. i didn’t see post release drivers in synaptic. i know that was a choice one could make with jockey, but i’m lost with LMDE on that detail.

    Mintkatze, perhaps you could provide some clarification on your suggestion. thanks ahead of time.

  222. Love Linux Mint, but Linux moves to darn fast. I just want one desktop that looks nice, and performs well. Who wants to update their distro every Linux development cycle. With Windows or Mac the GUI remains unchanged until a major release. I use only a rolling releases as changes seem to be under the hood. When the Linux community of geeks realizes the common user cares less about version updates, or newer kernels and minor GUI changes and focus on the basic functionality as a whole. Then it will florish and broader the possibilities. Linux is just to fragmented as a whole, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, and SUSE and so on. BSD is nice but still not enough hardware support and to much terminal configuation and scripting involved. Also most users don’t want to have to compile their own programs. Keep Linux were it belongs, in constant limbo.

  223. LINUX MINT DEBIAN MATE EDITION, ROCKS. Virtualbox of coarse, ELAN pad does not work well with my Samsung Series 7.

  224. @Mintkatze : Thats the whole problem in LMDE. Right now I am not able to install any other nvidia driver in LMDE except default (which is ver. 295). On trying it shows many errors, repositors, outdated not maintained etc. etc. If you know the way how to install this post release updates in LMDE please tell me also. Regards

  225. Mint with LXDE, I love the snappy desktop reaction. I have a netbook, so lightweight is everything.

  226. @Tony : Mint 13 will be named “Maya” and will be the next LTS after Mint 9. Mint 13 will be maintained for a period of 5 years.

    I don’t have more info about next mint version but you may have some infos from Ubuntu Precise which Mint 13 will be based on.

  227. The only distros i can use is the new Ubuntu 12.04 and the older mint ones. If i try mint 12 then it lags like hell. Im guessing its because of my gpu, an ati radeon mobility HD5870 card. Im guessing its something with the kernels or something i dont know. . But i have gotten used to Unity and i kinda like it. Which means that im not totally against gnome 3 anymore if they just make the performance a bit better. Anyways, love mint since it was my first distro so cant wait for mint 13! Great work guys!!

  228. @Bobby,

    just to give a comparison, i am running nvidia-295 in LM9. compiz is turned on of course, screensavers are silky smooth, and there is no break running across the middle of the screen. with my limited knowledge, it’s puzzling that an older kernel works so well with the latest driver. i’m sure there is a perfectly good explanation.

    the two issues that i am having with LMDE-MATE are:

    with compiz activited, 3D screensavers almost act as if no nvidia-driver is installed. it seems like all gpu resources are given to compiz.

    with compiz deactivated, 3D screensavers, i.e. lattice, are silky smooth, but with a break across the entire screen about 1/4 way down.

    LMDE-CINNAMON is actually not too bad, as in compiz and other 3D applications at least are all working–although perhaps not as silky smooth as one would like. can’t compare lattice in cinnamon, as i still have not found a way to activate it.

  229. LXDE for me. Other desktops slow down to a freakin crawl on my netbook but LXDE is super fast.

  230. @PB: Actually I was running Lattice with compiz effects on. On mine computer I was able to notice 1-2 flicker only that is also on very careful look. So, I tried while compiz deactivated, as you said, it is smooth at least there is no problem in mine computer.

    As regards Cinnamon. I wanted to try Gnome-Shell, with some extensions, so I installed it. Now the moment I start typing in gnome-search and find it crashes and forcing me to log out. Now it seems Gnome-shell is having some conflicts with Cinnamon also. On login to Cinnamon it shows some errors (gnome session, kernel etc. etc.). So right now I am stuck with MATE (perhaps as I wanted). Now interestingly, in my VB MATE, Gnome-Shell (did not try Cinnamon there, will just check it also) are working perfectly. Don’nt know what’s the problem on actual installation. In LM-12 all three desktop MATE, Gnome-shell and Cinnamon are working fine. No problems there.

    Now I think I am starting to realize, being not that expert, I think I should better of with the main edition only. Until Clem makes the LMDE at par with the edition. I will try lattice in Cinnamon in VB and then get back to you.

  231. @bobby,

    what you says makes perfect sense. there is not a thing wrong with sticking to the main edition. it is much simpler to configure in many cases. no, it might not be quite as snappy as LMDE, but the difference between my LM9 machine and LMDE as it currently is is minimal, especially since there is yet much work to do to make it as simple as possible for more users.

    i can appreciate why a growing crowd of mint users like LMDE. and it has come a long way from when i last tested it. i liked that i wasn’t presented with all kinds of broken package errors right out of the box. and perhaps it’s because MATE itself needs more work, and the two components together are presenting more issues. i think i am going to download LMDE-XFCE and test it out. XFCE is much more mature than MATE, albeit very plain to begin with. but at least i should be able to get a better picture as to how far LMDE has come with a fully developed DE. it should be interesting.

    you call yourself a non-expert, and i am in the same boat. but to me, even an expert can appreciate the time that is involved in getting things tweaked correctly so that they can honestly say they have a full blown PC and smooth DE. i understand that the experts enjoy spending time fixing things, but at some point, even they have to realize that not everyone has the time to spend doing those things, no matter how advanced they are. i strongly believe that a person will make time for what they really want to do, but even then there are limits.

    i’ll update when i have a chance to spin up LMDE-XFCE. Thanks for your input.

  232. There is no huge need to “upgrade” if your system is working well. Many new distros will not run well on older hardware if at all. Some newer hardware uses technology that was not considered 5 years ago.
    I am using a combination of Ubuntu 10.04, Mint 11, and Pinguy 11.04 on my machines and on the machines of neighbors.
    The Distro Wars are good, but the dust needs to settle a bit so we can see who is still standing

    My crystal ball says some flavor of Mint

  233. petere@289

    and that, my friend, is why my main pc is still LM9-Gnome. it runs flawlessly and quite snappy. the only reason why i have an interest in the latest distros/DE, is at some point, i would like to be reasonably sure what direction i am going to take. i suppose, planning ahead would be a good phrase to use. for now, the latest and greatest are merely in testing phase for me. i’ve been with mint since LM5, and the chain of events for the main PC has been: LM5, LM7, LM9, and here i sit.

    i agree 100% that some dust will have to settle before i make any commitments. i also agree that mint will be one of just a few that can truly be considered viable options, and i don’t necessarily include ubuntu in that mix. even now, their vision is controversial at the very very best.

    as far as my personal desire, i wish to see LMDE get to the out-of-the-box functionality that was available with the main edition, and that Mint can get back to offering 3 or 4 really solid DE’s that integrate well with LMDE. but i get the distinct impression that that is a long way off, despite clem’s solid effort so far. he’s on the right track though, and it’s still fun seeing how things pan out.

  234. So here’s my quandary:

    I downloaded 12.04 LTS and put Cinnamon 1.4 on it. Tobias Quinn’s excellent Gnome Shell Mousewheel Zoom app no longer works.

    I reinstalled 12.04 LTS from scratch and put MATE 1.2 on it. Compiz Enhanced Desktop Zoom doesn’t work.

    Without a mousewheel zoom, I’m dead in the water because I’m visually impaired. Gnome3’s zoom is quite simply an insult to visually impaired users. KDE’s is just as big an affront and just as useless. Unity ignores us completely because of a design choice (the third incarnation of that interface to do so, starting with Ubuntu 11.04 and continuing to the current LTS release).

    There are a lot of other users like me.

    I’m staying on Mint 10 and Gnome2 until someone gets their act together and supports us properly, the way Ubuntu 10.10 and Mint 10 used to.

  235. Mint 12 lxde works like a Charm no complains it is workin from Rc version on my pc becuse my pc dosent work well on Gnome version too much procesor stress always workin 99-100%

  236. @Roj : Where were you Roj. Clem in one of your comments in the last blog answered that compiz is working in LMDE-MATE. Have you tried LMDE-MATE. After reading Clem comment to you, I myself tried compiz and its enhanced zoom in LMDE-MATE and its working flawlessly just as you were asking/ demanding (super/alt + mouse scroll, super/alt key can be configured). In terminal “compiz –replace” and then try compiz. If satisfied put compiz –replace at startup. Regards

  237. @PB : In my VB all three desktop MATE, GNOME-SHELL and Cinnamon is working. In Cinnamon at least I could not find screen saver (perhaps Clem said something about this, don’nt remember now). So right now I am in MATE (no other option) and enjoying its speed. Will wait till LM-13 and then think about next.

    Will be waiting for your LMDE-LXDE experience. I tried it once, just to try KDE over LXDE. But the result was same as already stated. Did not explore it more. I read that some users installed Mint Menu (Gnome) in LXDE. If possible you also try it.

  238. @bobby:

    Not yet. I’ve been staying away from Debian mostly because of the tales that it’s decidedly more rough-edged than the smooth ride I’m used to with the Ubuntu-based versions (I’m HUGE into multimedia and audio, for example).

    Can you give me a more real-world viewpoint?

  239. OK, this is one thing I have NEVER understood:

    I can install ANY Ubuntu 64-it version on my test Machine (a Dell Optiplex 740 – Yes, I know it’s a piece of crap) and it will install with absolutely no problems.

    I am yet to get ANY Mint 64-bit version to install, I get the cutely Mint desktop screen, the countdown happens, the install starts and…


    Again and again and again.

    With Mint Debian, it’s a kernel panic.

    What is Mint doing wrong?

  240. Mint 10 was for me the best Mint Version ever !!! after the horrible following Versions had to go away from mint! Happy with Kubuntu 11.10 now – switching to kubuntu 12.04 soon. But i give a try to Mint based on 12.04 both Gnome Shit and KDE

  241. ..I usually always install Openbox or Flux along with Xfce. From there my other choices would be Lxde and them Cinnamon. You don’t really need anything else in my opinion.


    What is Linux Mint?
    Is it just a brand of Linux which uses 1000 upstream projects?
    Don’t you think this will eventually hurt the entire project?

    To PB: When I said let go of Canonical I meant to abandon Ubuntu main edition as upstream and adopt Debian as upstream, I don’t mean ties between LM team and Canonical.

    But frankly, when I open Linuxmint.com page and see 10 thousands of editions, I see no good.

    Please just make ONE POWERFUL USEFUL edition of Linux Mint. Not a brand, but AN IDENTITY!

    About the rants over GNOME 3, GNOME 2, Cinnamon and MATE… IT WOULD BE CLEVER to stick with GNOME 2 just as Red Hat Enterprise Linux is doing, also avoiding the components with regressions. Mint Team just haven’t got the man power to modify an entire desktop engine such as gnome shell just by scripting.

  243. PB@290
    I had a good install of LMDE that I was very happy with, and I was getting ready to move over to it as my primary boot. Unfortunately I “upgraded” it to a Mate version.
    Any idea where I can find an ISO of the last LMDE that was using Gnome2?
    Thanks, Peter in Baja

  244. @bobby:

    I think I need to rephrase my request to you. By “can you give me a real world viewpoint” I meant “have you tried Mint Debian yourself and how does it really compare to the Ubuntu-based flavours of Mint”.


  245. @The_Lord_Of_Knowledge Says, what you said is very good. In fact, it is ideal. In fact, it is what Mint is doing before this unholy mess started. Remember, Mint had the guts to release Katya based on Gnome2 when everyone is moving to Gnome3.

    Unfortunately that is no longer possible. We use upstream repositories. Gnome2 and Gnome3 software use the same filenames and packagenames, except that the latter has newer version numbers. So if we use Gnome2, the moment we sudo apt-get upgrade it will all be replaced by Gnome3.

    In both the Ubuntu and Debian editions, Mint was always the last holdout to Gnome2. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do when the newer packages enter the repository.

    That is why, my suggestion is to stick with Mate as the main edition for continuity. The main edition gives us our identity, while the other editions are just subprojects to show which direction we are going.

  246. @bobby, re screensaver. Screensavers don’t work with Gnome3. Cinnamon is just a shell for Gnome3, so there are no screensavers for Cinnamon either.

  247. I love Cinnamon but it use lot of memory and is not optimised a lot for my Netbook Samsung NC10 (with 2Gb ram and LMDE Mate/cinnamon)

    Cinnamon is Young but is perfect except some missing configuration option like screensaver, startup-manager, themes other than “Menu bar”.

  248. it would be nice to see a dark version of the mint-z theme in cinnamon to match with the top bar. also screensaver, and splashy with just like the mint leaf logo glowing like with no dots. I think this would be a great idea. Hope to see these in Linux Mint 13. And if not, I may add them and spin my own with them in it. I will just have to wait for your repositories.

  249. I use a browser (Firefox), email (Thunderbird), an authoring package (Lyx), and lots of special purpose math software which I compile from source. For a desktop, I want something that uses almost no resources, is fast, has a menu tab. All the rest of the stuff, pretty animated screens, desktop search, etc. is for me at least, irrelevant. Xfce is more than sufficient for my needs. I want a computer to help me compute – not to get in the way with a complicated desktop, animated buttons, and all the other fluff. Just my two cents 🙂

  250. @Roj : If you can read please read my and @PB chat from post 266 onwards. This will give you clear picture when it comes to linux where do I stand and also something about LMDE. I would say that there is no harm in trying, if you can and then decide whether you can manage LMDE or not. Otherwise wait for LM-13.

  251. @Bamm : This is very wrong. All the time you were watching and enjoying seeing that me and @PB just beating our heads in trying to search screen saver in Cinnamon. You know how much precious time we both wasted on this. Now you suddenly come and say, it is not there, well guy this is not done. Ha ha hahahah don’nt get serious just joking. Actually I am laughing on myself and PB also. See this shows our dedication to Linux, how seriously we were trying to search for screen savers, the thing which is not even there. And you put all our research in dustbin just by one line. Ha ha hah haaa. Anyway I was just enjoying the moment. If I can laugh on others mistakes the same goes for me also. Thanks for clarifying.

    @The_Lord_Of_Knowledge and @Bamm : To further clarify the thing, Linux Mint depends on Ubuntu and Debian. If they change LM has to change. Now in Red Hat’s case, Red Hat is keeping the Gnome-2 alive so in turn CentOS is using this perfectly. But here Debian and Ubuntu is not interested in maintaining Gnome-2 any more. Hence the MATE and Cinnamon.

  252. I use MATE. I think a lot of people use Cinnamon because they like the name, heh. Change MATE to something not so outback-ish and you’ll have hit!

  253. I don’t remember what I used when I installed LM 12. I know I didn’t like it and it didn’t stay on my desktop for long. I didn’t realize Cinnamon was a shell for Gnome 3. After trying MATE 1.2, I do believe that’s what I’ll be going with in October.

    As always, thank you Clem and team for listening to us. Thanks for all your efforts.

  254. @PsxMeUP
    You’re joking right? we are not in elementary school 🙂 Choosing candy by name hahaha
    I choose Cinnamon DE even i don’t like to use it in the kitchen 😉
    Look at http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/ and see how wonderful applets and themes it have, that’s my reason i choose it. It’s gnome 2 in new clothes ha!

  255. Bamm@@307

    Actually, if you install the xscreensaver package in Cinnamon, you can use screensavers, as I mentioned in another post. However, what appears to be still missing is a way to configure screensavers from the native screen utility that has been a part of Gnome Shell/Cinnamon from the very beginning of this mess.

    When you install xscreensavers, there is a totally separate entry in the menu called screensaver. From there, it will launch xscreensaver utility, and you can configure which ever screensavers come as part of that package. The problem is, “lattice” and others are still out there in limbo somewhere. I’m sure there is a folder containing it, but I haven’t had the time to figure out how to move it to the xscreensaver folder. It may be more complicated than that, but no matter.

    Screensavers do work in Cinnamon, and Gnome Shell. It just involves extra packages.

    Also, what “The_Lord_Of_Knowledge” says is certainly a great idea, and is obviously something that Mint has thought about. Otherwise, why do we even have LMDE to begin with? But as you mentioned, it is not practical to dump the Main Edition right now. The_Lord_Of_Knowledge forgets that Redhat has been independent for some time now. They have their own package base(rpm) and have had it for some time now. Other than the Linux kernel, application software, utilities, etc., who do they have upstream to maintain compatibility with when it comes to DE? No one. Redhat is like Debian, Slackware, Suse, etc. Ubuntu, of course, has sharply forked from Debian and are virtually their own flavor altogether–good or bad.

    LMDE is hopefully the future for Mint, but it is indeed the future. I like what I see so far from the last time I tested LMDE, but MATE, Cinnamon, etc., present their own problems. Clem will get it right, but for now, the Main Edition is simply easier for me, and many others to get working the way we expect.


    Perhaps this post has answered your question to bobby to an extent. But so as not to speak for bobby, I will say that LMDE is getting better and better. If the pace stays the same for LMDE, it will one day be the Main Edition. But it has to be as easy, or even easier than how the Main Edition is now to get configured.

    bobby hit it on the head, there is never any harm in trying it out. You may be one of the users where things just fall right into place with it as far as what your needs really are. There are pros and cons, and Clem has never been unclear about that. You will immediately notice a certain snappiness that doesn’t exist in the Main Edition. This is a good thing. But if you install it, and certain things are “broken” that you consider important, then snappiness becomes less significant, especially since the Main Edition performs reasonably well on it’s own.

    This is where I’m at. I’m running LM9-Gnome Edition, and it’s plenty quick, and best of all, it works as expected. No graphics issues, no sound issues, no annoying system beeps. For me, there is no compelling need to replace my main machine. But I do enjoy testing Mint’s latest offerings on a hard drive that I have just for this purpose.

  256. Sorry, I think I should clarify. It is gnome-screensaver that don’t work anymore in Gnome3. The Gnome3 team has made it clear that they don’t believe in screensavers. So gnome-screensaver is gone, and any utility to configure screensavers is also gone.

    However, it still runs on X11. So xscreensaver should work. But
    1. This is runs directly on X11, doesn’t go through Gnome hooks
    2. There is no way to configure it from Gnome
    3. Any screensavers built specifically for gnome-screensaver will not work on xscreensaver.

    So, yes. It is possible to run screensavers but it is unsupported by Gnome.

  257. As far as I can see, Mate is the best option for me and, I guess, for all the people like me who need to handle special characters with diacritics. I found my Char Palette in Mate as before in Gnome and I’m happy. I didn’t try Cinnamon, but I suggest, in developing the environment, to have in mind this requirement. The suggestion is for KDE and XFCE too. Please have a look on those, like me, work mainly on writing and need latin, greek, sanskrit etc. support.

    Maybe thi is not the right place, but I wonder why nobody thought to develop a very useful but simple tool for writers and publishers like “smart wrap”. I had it on my Mac and Win machines and it saved me a lot of work in reshaping text.

    Thank you and best wishes.

  258. @PB and bobby:

    Thanks for all your help and honestly, if the Debian Edition reaches the level of maturity that the main edition has, nothing would please me more than to install once and perpetually upgrade without the angst. I’ll see if I can scare up a box that it installs on because as per my other post, it produces a kernel panic on the dell optiplex 740 w/4Gb and an AMD dual core that I’m using as a test box. The main box is a much more modern mobo and Phenom II quad core, a Sapphire Radeon 5670 and an Asus Xonar DX sound card so I don’t imagine I’ll have any issues with it (it runs Mint 10 perfectly right now) but I don’t want to test “live” as it were. I could test it in a VM under VirtualBox but VMs only go so far… I’m actually thinking of downgrading to Mint 9 LTS just to get the extra year of support untilt he smoke clears but I wanted a release that had more than a year and a half of support as my next upgrade. Given the lack of maturity of both MATE and Cinnamon (far too many rough edges like having to manually edit core files to change the bar width, jerry-rigging themes and wrestling with screen magnifier solutions because the OS either doesn’t include them or they aren’t activated by default), and unless something changes between now and the end of the month, it’s beginning to look like Mint 13 ain’t it.

    All I want is an updated, long term support Mint 10. I’ll see if the Debian Edition is it.

  259. Bamm@318

    Thanks for clarifying. I thought that might have been your angle. Fortunately, there are many more screensavers than those that work for only Gnome. Certainly screensavers offer no real value as to the implication of their name anymore. But I like using specific ones to see how well proprietary drivers are interacting.


    No problem. I will warn you that Asus Xonar DX cards were at one time problematic. One could go through several steps to get them working, but it was a bit of a headache, and audio streaming from the Internet was a crap shoot at best. Latest releases provide much better support, but not complete. Some things like front panel connectors don’t work. Have not tried that card with LMDE, so it may have even more issues, but might be better.

  260. @bobby

    after doing some research, there is a way to force xscreensaver to add the rss-glx screensaver entries. it is a little clumsy, but i got it working, and can see lattice and all the other rss-glx screensavers in the dialogue and can configure them.

    when i get time, i will post the steps that i took.

  261. @PB:

    My Xonar has worked fine with Skype and playing music for the last year under Mint 10 although I had to get my head around PulseAudio to get it to work with Skype (I use bit perfect ALSA direct to hardware write for music playback).

    Now, on the not-so-complementary, I installed 12.04 LTS *again* on my test box, put in Cinnamon, installed the Group Windowlist applet (latest version) and the Classic Menu applet (lsatest version) and Cinnamon crashed never to be seen again regardless of the number of reboots. I don’t even get a bar when I log in. This ain’t cooked yet. The “downgrade to Mint 9 for support purposes until this is cooked” scenario is looking more and more plausible.

    It seems to me that 10.10 and things based on it were the pinnacle and everything since then has been downhill in terms of stability.

  262. @Roj

    Perhaps Mint 10 is the difference for the Xonar cards. I am running Mint 9, and it was a real chore getting it to work, but there is plenty of information out there. But it is incomplete. You may have better luck since your more familiar with pulse. But don’t be surprised if there are a few more steps involved. I will say that it is arguable as to whether LM9 or LM10 is better. I like 9, but whenever I set up a new user on Linux Mint, I seem to go with 10 for some reason. I have found 9 to just be faster all around for me.

  263. hi 282 Bobby,

    if you do not have jokey, then go to your Synaptic, open it and look for packages with nvidia.

    You need these packages: nvidia-settings, nvidia-post-release-updates and dependencies. Install these packages.

    And !!IMPORTANT!! Care for, that nouveau-driver will completely be removed!! You can’t have two active drivers installed!!! Otherwise, you will end up with black screen and nothing working!! !!IMPORTANT!!


  264. @ 277 Robin:

    your comment “What do you mean by “version post-release-updates?” Thanks ;)”

    With this I mean the latest version of the proprietary nvidia-driver!! I never use the opensource one nouveau, because I had once a critical overheating of my grpahics!! This got dangerous and so I switched back to this proprietary one!!

    Installation in LinuxMint-Standard (ubuntu-based):
    possiblity one: go to your Systemsettings. There you find the option “additional hardware-drivers”. Select this option and your system will look up, if other drivers are available.
    It should show up the “nvidia-current-updates” driver.
    Install it and reboot your machine. That’s just it

    Or the other possiblity is installing it via Synaptic!! Therefore go to your Menue and there to “Accessories” and there you should find your Synaptic. Open it and look for packages with nvidia.

    You need the nvidia-post-release-updates, nvidia-settings

    Install these packages and !!IMPORTANT!! care for, that the nouveau-driver will completely be removed with it’s dependencies!! Oterhwise, you will also end up with a black screen and nothing working!!! !!IMPORTANT!!!

  265. MintKatze@325

    Thanks for your input, as I too was interested in what your were referring to. However, I think the context was in reference to LMDE, which of course, is not based on Ubuntu. The utility that you are talking about is Jockey, and yes, it offers an option to install post release video drivers. Clem has mentioned perhaps porting Jockey into LMDE, or at least an equivalent utility in order to make video driver installation much more trouble free, as it is with the Main Edition.

    Besides a restart, Jockey installs everything, and it even runs nvidia-xconfig before you must restart. It would really be nice if installing proprietary video drivers was a bit more mindless, but I feel that it will be addressed one day.

    Thanks again, but your solution applies to a different system.

  266. Bom,eu sugeria que vocês fizesse umas dimenções tanto com a levesa em si no mundo mint e o conjunto,pois na versão 12 do linuxmint isso está fora de sério,não está dando uma dentro em minha cpu,ou em todos úsuarios que conheço,pois está travando toda hora,sempre que ligo e conecto na internet,até ai sem problemas,mais depois que eu começo a ouvir música e fazer download etc.
    ai começa a travar sem parar,minha hd fica lendo incansávelmente,não sei oque está acontecendo com essa versão do mint,eu sugiro que vocês,mudem um pouco o ambiente gráfico,pois a maioria dos úsuarios estão opnando para o linuxmint por sua facilidade de uso,mais todos reclaman do mesmo problema,o mate com connamon está tendo bastantes conflitos,e eu sugiro que imite o gnome 2,pois o linux mint é 100% mais elegante,rápido,ágil,e muito importante tanto pra úsuarios avançados quanto pra leigos. comunidade Brazilian,rumo a liberdade!

  267. I am only using the default desktop environment with Mint 12. I thank you for a simple, familiar environment.

    I have been driven here by the dysfunctional “Unity” desktop environment used by the latest versions of Ubuntu. “Unity” was an appalling mistake implemented by idiotic control freaks who limited the utility of their operating system and made every task of a system administrator more difficult to achieve. I found I could no longer easily install and implement more than the very limited, basic set of applications provided by Ubuntu. I could no longer train unskilled people to switch to Ubuntu. I could not provide them with the applications they needed. “Unity” is only suitable for crippled computers or people who have only the most basic needs in a computing environment. Please do not ever switch to a similar interface without allowing your user base an easy way to switch back to this menu-driven environment.

    Thank you

  268. KDE is my favorite DE. I use it with the Kubuntu-based version of Mint, as opposed to LMDE. I’m also looking forward to razor-Qt, as a fast,lean Qt-based Desktop Environment. I’m using Linux Mint 9 KDE LTS as my main distro now & will switch to
    Linux Mint 13 KDE LTS once it comes out. Thanks everyone for contributing to the community.

  269. Do not care about the high scores.
    Fluxbox is my favourite!
    Everyone has the right to choose his/her own folly! :o]

  270. I think no perfect linux (mint) today.

    first, I’m using mint 12 Gnome3. but it’s very slow while we on multi monitor.

    second, I’m using Mate from debian. but many feature has gone (eg. wine).

    third, I’m reinstall and using KDE. It’s awesome, full feature. but the computer take so many process and focused on visual rather performance.

    fourth, I’m downgrading to linux mint 11. but unable to update or install software. resource not found.

    and finally. I’m using ubuntu 12 with unity. but no software manager like on mint.

    so I think no linux perfect today

  271. PB@326

    I’m not sure, but what about smxi ( particularly sgfxi ) script for installing nvidia drivers? It work on my notebook with LMDE Squeeze without problem.

  272. berezka@329

    If heard of that script, but have not used it. Perhaps I will explore it more when I get an opportunity.

    In the meantime, here is a link directly from the LMDE users guide that worked flawlessly for installing fglrx on my work PC.


    I attempted to use synaptic at first, and it failed. While it did bring up the desktop, compiz –replace failed, and I couldn’t get ATI Catalyst Control Center to work. After running the set of instructions fro install FGLRX Driver, it worked beautifully. However, there still appears to be a huge resource war going on between Compiz and other 3D processes like screensavers, in LMDE-MATE, and Compiz is winning. Screensavers are almost as if no video driver is installed at all, while Compiz seems unaffected. After typing “killall compiz” in a terminal, 3D screensavers were pretty darn slick, even on my mediocre onboard gpu. Turning on the “tear free” desktop in ACCC also makes quite a noticeable difference.

    I will try the nvidia procedure at home when I get an opportunity, as it is slightly different than what I’ve tried. I fully expect to see evidence of problems when compiz is turned on, but will update.

  273. Ended up using MATE (LMDE) as Gnome 3 and Cinnamon didn’t offer me my Mint Menu, which I missed a lot. (Not sure whether that was my user error or not and couldn’t seem to find time to figure it out). Really wanted to give Gnome 3 a chance but couldn’t seem to configure anything…happy with MATE.

  274. Whatever you pick, it better look good. In the past eye-candy wasn’t a big deal because none of the OSs looked cool. We had a playground full of geeks so everybody was happy. Then came the kid with the cool clothes and haircut, and every kid started emulating. Nowadays you got your Win7, soon an even flashier Win8; you also got your Mac with their iPads and fancy icons; hell even Android has better effects than most Linux distros. The future of any new Linux OS that aims for layman users is having an up-to-standard look with easy functionality and great driver support. I know the Open Source community is great with drivers – programming and such – but look? Not too many artistic programmers out there. Don’t be the last kid with a pocket protector!

  275. xfce with xmonad as tiling manager

    in past used gnome + xmonad, but because of recent revolutions starting with kde and ending with cinnamon, and because lxde is still raw, switched to xfce.

  276. On 27 April I wrote that I’d try out Cinnamon and KDE, but I’ve started using KDE exclusively since then, on both my desktop and notebook. It’s quite different in some ways from Gnome (Mate), but I’m beginning to get things back to how I like them.

  277. From Vinicius, #328:

    Google translation, almost unedited:

    Well, I suggest you do some measurements with both lightness itself in the world and mint together, as in version 12 out LinuxMint this is serious, no one is giving in on my cpu, or all users I know, because is crashing all the time, every time I turn on the Internet and connect, so far without problems, but after that I start listening to music and download etc..
    I get to hang endlessly, my hd is tirelessly reading, do not know what is happening with this version of the mint. I suggest you, change them a little graphic environment, since most users are opnando for Linux Mint for its ease of use, plus all reclaman the same problem, the mate is having enough connamon with conflicts, and I suggest that mimic the gnome 2, because the linux mint is 100% more elegant, fast, agile, and very important for both advanced users and to laity. Brazilian community, towards freedom!

    [opnando: opting? (choosing as an option?)]
    [reclaman: tell of/tell about? (Not a literal translation; “reclam” word root means “advertise” in numerous languages, surprisingly.)]


  278. @Bam


    Thanks for your reply. Indeed, the GNOME renaming chaos took place everywhere. I understand.

    Have you guys considered to adopt ArchLinux as upstream? Either Arch or Debian. But staying with Ubuntu upstream is a mistake in my honest opinion.

    I understand there is a MAIN EDITION and there are SPIN EDITIONS, but I mean… If I was a noob I certainly would be confused with so many editions. It’s like Fedora which never knows where it’s going… 10 hundreds of desktops and 10 hundreds of spins.

    I just read an interview from Shuttleworth about how Canonical vision is truly the ultimate experience for the desktop user. I’m sorry I couldn’t hold my laugh. It’s ridiculous. Unity is a disaster and it seems it will take at least 4 years for them to see this.

    Linux Mint has the opportunity to surprise everyone in the entire Linux “eco-system”. Sticking with MATE and upstreaming from Debian. Just do that for now and wait longer. I think Cinnamon is a good project however the way is being pushed forward is too fast. Just look at Red Hat Enterprise Linux, they are in no rush concerning GNOME 3 technologies.


    Is there a possibility that Linux Mint will cease to be a project that uses someone else’s upstream? I mean… guys… you are getting big, and need to think bigger.

  280. @Nicholas Bodley:

    I think he meant

    Opinioning – giving an opinion
    Complaining – Reclamar is “to complain”, hence the verb is on gerund.

    Source: I speak Portuguese.

  281. I’m not currently using Mint because I’m waiting for a KDE version of LMDE. (If I’m going to have to fight a Gnome-based desktop, why not go back and fight Windows?)

  282. @The_Lord_Of_Knowledge
    I am happy with Ubuntu as upstream. There are things that work seamlessly on Ubuntu base, which may need user tinkering in Debian base. If Debian becomes the main edition, Mint will have to port all the Ubuntu improvements into the Debian edition too. I wish they do! I want LMDE to be as user friendly as the Ubuntu-based Main Edition.

  283. I understand. That’s why my main system is still on Katya. I will use Katya with Gnome2 until Mate is as good as Gnome2 (or better) or until Katya sees end of life, whichever comes first.

    But Mate needs support and love for it to mature into a drop-in replacement for Gnome2.

    I am hoping that Mint 13 Maya with Mate be good enough to move me away from Katya. It is an LTS and if it gives an experience equal to or better than Katya, then it is what I will use for the next five years.

  284. I do not mind if Mint Maya with Mate gets delayed as long as it gives a version of Mate where everything works right just like Gnome2 in Katya.

  285. Gnome 2 is death so MATE is not a future option. I’m writing from Ubuntu 11.10 with Cinnamon (PPA installed), waiting for LinuxMint 13 with CINNAMON. From Maya, Mint will my new distro.

  286. #346:The_Lord_Of_Knowledge Says:
    Source: I speak Portuguese.

    I don’t. Lovely language, seems to me. Great! Muito obrigado.

  287. I find that the last LMDE+MATE is awsome. It works fine.

    I think that compiz makes a great case for mate. In my machine compiz plugins work very well.
    It would be unfortunate to lose what compiz offers as candy and functionality. To me it has become a must have combined with MATE and the hardware sensors and applets in the panel.

    Two “bugs” though when compiz is used:
    – the window decorations can’t be changed
    – the cpu use jumps from ~25% to ~75%

    Keep the good work mint team.
    And I hope you make the best decisions.

  288. Lamento no escribir inglés. Pero no quiero dejar pasar mi voto en LMDE.

    Mi voto es para MATE.(I voted for MATE). Utilizo MATE en LMDE, por que es lo mas parecido a Gnome2.

  289. Eko Wahyudin #333: I agree, Linux is in the worst spot it’s been in years. Mint 10 was just about perfect (I had trouble with Mint 11), and this Gnome 3/Unity mess is terrible. But, Cinnamon and MATE are making the best out of a bad situation. I would suggest one of the following:

    1. Try to reinstall Mint 11. If it worked for you in the past, it should still work fine. It is supported for a little bit longer still, so any errors might have just been a fluke.

    2. Try MATE or Cinnamon in Mint 12 (or wait for 13) if you don’t like the Debian version (it’s not as user-friendly). To run it faster, try completely getting rid of any desktop environment you don’t intend to use. For example, get rid of all of the MATE packages if you are going to use Cinnamon, and as much of the Cinnamon/Gnome 3 packages as you can if you’re going to use MATE.

    3. You could still try the Debian version with MATE. There should be an older version of Wine in the repositories. If you need the newest version, I don’t know of a repository for it, but you can download and manually install a deb for the current “unstable” version from the link on http://www.winehq.org. Depends on how adventurous you are. This is one example of how unready for primetime LMDE is, unfortunately.

  290. I also agree that there is no perfect Linux version today. For me, Mint 11 Katya was perfect. But now, Mint 12 Lisa is a joke even with Cinnamon and/or Mate installed. LMDE gave me hope for Mate, but its Debian base is still not as user-friendly as Katya had been.

    So, I am eagerly awaiting Mint 13 Maya with Mate. I am hoping that Mate will have matured enough for Mint 13 to be the new perfect distro which will be supported for 5 years.

  291. I’m gonna be honest… I’m on RHEL 6.2 right now. I bought it. I have other CentOS 6.2 machines. I producing academic thesis and other stuff so I need stability and I need long-term support. This thing is rock solid, and Red Hat is not kidding (they cleverly avoid regressions into the updates in a very meticulous way).

    I don’t think Mint should follow Ubuntu upstream. I think it needs to let go of Ubuntu. Debian is a good upstream project, and I think those user difficulties are going to be paid off with *MORE STABILITY* and more *GROWTH* in userbase. I am sure that some unfriendly behaviour may be tolerated by the community, in exchange for strong long-term support. Mint shouldn’t follow this crazy 6 month release period.

    If it’s so necessary to be bleeding edge, do a rolling based edition, and other *ROCK SOLID* main edition. Constant changes are killing Linux, users want to operate what they are used to. If Mint guys could transform GNOME 3 in Cinnamon, I am sure Debian issues can be overcome.

    I am not ditching RHEL any time soon. And I doubt that what’s going on in Fedora right now is going to be fully accepted for RHEL 7 next year. They are a corporation. They won’t put up with losing stakeholders.

    If Mint does the right move on *THIS RELEASE*, it will sky rocket in Distrowatch.

  292. Just wanted to mention…there are two Craig’s on mint forums…i am the other one…the one that posts currently a lot to the other distros section about ubuntu 12.04 (i happen to like unity a lot) the one that posted earlier comments here is the other Craig…it is a bit confusing isn’t it?

    I also like Cinnamon…but currently i am sticking with unity which i find to be quite usable after giving it a fair chance…so not sure if i will be re-installing mint when 13 comes out…though i still am fond of mint and the forums of course…

    Aside from the desktop environment aspect, i would really love to see mint get a more polished/professional look like ubuntu has these days…

    you know, more “eye candy”…nothing wrong with having something really nice to look at when you do your computing stuff…windows 7 looks great and so does ubuntu! I know Clem’s never been that big on this aspect but it would sure be welcome…

  293. Fluxbox. I’ve used all the big and small DE’s, but nothing compares to FB. It’s not fancy nor fashionable, but it’s supremely easy to work with and lets me get my job done. Period. End of story (for me, anyway).

  294. I am mainly a ‘task centred’ Gnome desktop PC user, and wrote previously in the Mint forum and Blog regarding my choices of DE in the latest poll. I voted for Cinnamon + MATE + xfce (as lightweight alternative). I also supported a move to LMDE as way forward and moving away from Ubuntu base in longer term. 

    Due to current lack of maturity of both Cinnamon & MATE, I said I was logging in and out to change between Cinnamon & MATE dependant on what I need to do, and happy to do this as both develop over time.

    Subsequently following the posts in both forum & blog, it is clear that feelings in all camps run very high on the subject of ‘best’ DE, and that the development of Gnome 3 and Canonical’s ‘Unity’ etc. which appear to many to be primarily motivated by a wish to make inroads into the (more commercial rewarding?) ‘touchy feely’ mobile/hand held/small netbook world, at the expense of Desktop PC (and possibly the more statically used larger laptop) needs. 

    Refining touch screen ‘application centred’ DE’s is perceived as the (only?) way forward/progress by some, and indeed may increasingly prove to be beneficial for the touch screen mobile/hand held/laptop/netbook world in moving forward. However, this singular course is predicated (incorrectly IMHO) that desktop PC’s/users are a ‘dying breed’. 

    Such an assumption is a total anathema to the very many desktop PC users who are not yet dead and are horrified that people might not recognise that they want/need to do specific work tasks on a PC rather than ‘fingerpoke’ some convenient ‘App’ or game on a small touch screen. 

    It is also unlikely that corporate, and other desktop users will want to invest inappropriately in more recent touch screen devices of all sorts unless they offer increased labour effectiveness/efficiency and can meet their ‘task specific’ needs, and offer cost benefits. (You need to go a long way to better the old fashioned desktop keyboard + mouse, in the hands of a skilled user if you want to input data/type letters/edit photo’s/create graphics etc.) 

    The change to Gnome 3 DE in whatever form is such a paradigm shift and raises many unanswerable/difficult questions, and it will no doubt take time (several years) for the various DE options (including MATE & Cinnamon) to be tried, tested, changed and progressively refined to meet the many genuine, but clearly very disparate needs of the users of this fast developing/changing technology. 

    The KDE DE has been through similar cathartic change, has survived, and has become the excellent choice of DE for many.

    Perhaps it is contentious to suggest, but possibly we might not simply and conveniently fall into either the mobile/handheld/fingerpoking app users category, or into the dead, staid, inflexible desktop ‘task orientated’ users, but actually, between the extremes there is a very wide middle ground where people ectually have a need to use and embrace several aspects of the technology (e.g. I carry a netbook on holiday but use a PC at home: I have a mobile, but do not want it to do much more than telephone and prefer a ‘land line’ if possible: I have a good camera and prefer that to using my mobile phone camera etc). I do not want an ‘all singing & dancing’ gadget that just gives a compromise level of functionality ease of use. 

    Why is there such a fight about what individuals think is best. Given a chance, the pendulum will swing naturally and eventually slow at a the best achievable position for all of us (until something else appears to initiate change).

    Clem (and his team) have stated that he does not want Linux Mint to develop into the pure hand held/mobile etc area, and has a commitment to maintaining a usable desktop PC DE. By initiating the ‘poll(s)’, he clearly wants to get a ‘feel’ for how existing Linux Mint users and other Distro users regard their DE’s in order to better shape the future of Linux Mint. (Given the current ‘state of flux’, ongoing debate, and diverse user opinion this is very brave and akin to shooting with a single gun at multiple fast moving birds all flying in different directions)

    The ‘Poll’ is about finding out what people might want; it is not an ‘election’ to identify a one option ‘winner’ or ‘loser’. 

    Clem and his team have been watching the pendulum swing and have made very wise choices up to now. I have no personal doubts that he/they will fully consider people’s DE feelings as far as possible/practicable, plus all of the other more technical aspects, and will move forward as he sees fit to continue to give us the best DE’s possible in the circumstances, and I think we can have confidence in his judgement.

    Good luck to him and his team in deciding the best way forward, and many thanks for being brave and putting his head over the parapet.

  295. Is anybody else having trouble with the forums? Every time I go to them a file tries to download.

  296. Очень хорошо сочетается MATE с LXDE (Linux Mint созданный на основе LXDE + MATE). Можно также сделать Linux Mint на основе Linux Edubuntu.

  297. I had the same problem this morning, cwwgateway. I ended up browsing the community website for a question that I have.

  298. The first thing i do after a fresh install of Mint 12 is to install the cinnamon session. I hope you make Cinnamon the default DE for Maya.

  299. En la edición debian 64 bits trabajan bien: brasero donde los discos se expulsan correctamente en automático y no manual , VLC el sonido es deficiente. TOTEM y Mplayer no funsionan con algunos medios. XBMC un poco mejor. Audacios funsiona bien en todas las ediciones.En debian no hay formateador de dispositivos usb. LibreOffice, muy bien en esta edicion funsiona bien al igual que las demas aplicaciones por defecto. Saludos.

  300. Debian edicion is much better and easy to use. i can use only the necesary libraries for all aplications. Brasero work correctly. only sound problems in VLC.

  301. Please give us the Fluxbox and Openbox I think the right click option makes those the king DE for me

  302. Steve@361

    Well said. I agree completely that extreme positions on any matter are more ofthen than not, not the right answer. People have such a difficult time finding a perfectly productive middle ground. An example of this is: A person goes to see a speciliast about heart health, because it’s been determined that he needs surgery to correct a life threatening issue. He goes to the specialist, and the specialist tells him exactly how it should proceed, and that it’s the only way, otherwise, the patient will die. But the specialist also encourages the patient to get a second opinion. What? Really? So the patient goes to get a second opinion, and that specialist suggests a treatment that is the polar opposite of the first specialist, and that if he doesn’t get the treatment, he will most certainly die.

    I’m a big believer that somewhere in between the two entirely different procedures exists a perfect reasonably approach to correcting the issue of the patient. Yes, we know the patient needs surgery, but for crying out loud!!!! Let’s not lose our heads in the process. This might sound like a silly scenario, but things like this happen everyday in the medical field.

    Great explanation, I appreciate your viewpoint. I hope Clem takes the time to read the whole thing, but most importantly, I hope the blog sees the common sense.

  303. 1. Linux desktops are a *minuscule* proportion of all workstation and laptop usage.
    2. Linux desktops are a matter of personal taste, and
    3. *All* users customize their desktops for maximum productivity.

  304. PB@365

    Thanks for kind words PB. I like your medical analogy (as I worked in the UK Health Service for 42 years and think how often does that has happened in reality). Debate always causes polarisation, but I have have confidence that rationality will prevail when the raw feelings are tempered down a bit and people are able to step back a few paces.

  305. i vote for kde, xfce, lxde and cinnamon. e17 it’s olso a good alternative if you want. if i’ll be in your place i’ll do only ubuntu lts and i’ll invest the time gained in work for LMDE. I’ll never lose time with gnome 3, MATE, fallsback and thing like that. Try to make your team bigger because in the linux world the fragmentation is very big and there are many systems made for 3 people. Maybe somebody will understand this simple thing which means no progress but chaos.

  306. The perfect system:
    -With a Graphical Installer
    – Linux Logical Volume Manager, disk encryption, and boot loader password protection
    – Installed Applications that almost every user needs
    -Graphical Package Manager
    -Firewall running and configured out of the box
    -Graphical Management Applications
    -Rolling or LTS
    In Linux world there is no system like this but is possible to apear someday. I hope that will be Linux Mint.

  307. @der, alternatively, you can set your system that way and create your own livecd using remastersys or relinux.

  308. There is a new complication that will force the upgrade issue:

    GIMP 2.8

    It will only work with the 12.04 and subsequent releases thanks to the infrastructure needed to run it. Given that versions prior to 2.8 had an interface best described as a retroactive abortion, this is a biggie for many users, myself included.

    MATE and Cinnamon in their current form are NOT ready for prime time. Sorry – that’s the reality. We have an LTS release pending, which means a stake-in-the-ground milestone. I think that May should be an internal BETA and June should be a public BETA (not RC – those are for releases actually ready to make it out the door and not what Mint has traditionally called an RC which in reality is actually a BETA) with the MATE and Cinnamon teams actively working on that BETA to resolve things like SAMBA issues with MATE, stability issues (especially with applets), ease of configuration issues (adding themes, changing bar width – the niceties that are sorely lacking in the case of Cinnamon) and a final LTS some time in July.

    Yes that breaks with tradition. Tradition in my experience is never quite what it’s cracked up to be, especially when it gets in the way of something better.

    This is likely not a popular concept but from where I’m sitting, that’s the only thing that will make the next LTS a reasonable reality given the goals of a MATE / Cinnamon edition. A MATE / Cinnamon LTS release with MATE 1.2 / Cinnamon 1.4 is NOT credible IMO.

  309. Clem,
    I switched from kde to gnome and using Mint 10 on the powerful desktop. I like that environment as it is similar to kde and now have gotten used to it. I was a longtime Mepis then PClos and now Mint user as they all share the simplicity style I liked. Mint as however taken the front stage. Everything is working great and not trying any other distros as my days of playing are over.

    Recently installed Mint 12 -Mate on my laptop however it is struggling a little graphic wise. 256k of so-called dedicated memory isn’t enough. Honestly If I were to upgrade the desktop, I am reluctant too because of the complexity of upgrading the whole system as it is now fine just upgrading everything around without breaking then next day you turn it on. On the laptop I am reminded of the desktop environment and try to change laptop to mimic it except Mate is growing on me with al that said because I’m able to work and not fix. Im thinking the next task on your list, changing my Asus transformer with a version of MintRoid.

    Nothing is more gratifying than to be given a chance and voice your opinions except when the creators take the time to personally comment them nothing is more rewarding. Thanks for everything that you and your team does.

  310. What is this really all about?
    Childish splash screens, screensavers and stuff?
    Linux Mint, forget that nonsense.

    Give Gnome 3 just a simple typical Mint flavor …
    Put your energy into improving Gnome 3 as it is.
    Forget Mate, Unity and Cinnamon.
    Let Linux Mint is what it is, complete and out-of-the-box working.

    I’m a fan of Linux Mint and I have ever donated.
    Now Mint is not relevant here, it’s too fragmented …

    I now work with Fedora 16 and Gnome 3 to the full satisfaction ..
    What is currently the value of Linux Mint, I wonder …

  311. JanG371

    mint is “fragmented” because of Clem’s effort to offer more choices–right or wrong. hopefully it will serve as more of a function in the future. in other words, fragmentation now, will hopefully mean more usability and stability later.

    while screensavers in themselves offer no real functionality or productivity, they do have relevance in testing 3D graphics performance for other applications that provide more of a function. it is somewhat of an idiot’s approach to testing–the “idiot” referencing applying to myself.

    glad fedora works well for you, glad gnome 3 works well for you. just because it works great for you doesn’t automatically mean that Mint is no longer relevant. that’s not a fair statement. as a personal experience, there are countless versions of linux available that have i have no use for. but they are useful to others, so they have relevance, or “value.”

  312. @JanG:

    I’m of the well-considered opinion that Gnome3 in its vanilla state has about as much relevance as Unity – and both are ill-considered impractical designs for a concurrently multitasking customizable OS interface.

    I’m glad Gnome3 turns your crank. It’s all but useless for my uses (I do a lot of consumer desktop things like multimedia and audio) and I’ve also seen enough controversy surrounding its shortcomings to know that I’m not a minority in that viewpoint.

    From where I’m sitting, Linux has always been about choice – sometimes too much of it (and yes I’m referring directly to Gnome3 and Unity). Some of that “choice” has resulted in a relatively small group of individuals tossing out an evolved and mature interface and manhandling the community down a road that has led to the unfortunate mess we have now. The Cinnamon and MATE teams are trying to mitigate that and I am very grateful for their efforts.

  313. “Give Gnome 3 just a simple typical Mint flavor”

    Cinnamon IS giving Gnome 3 a simple typical Mint flavor.

    FYI Cinnamon started as MGSE, a set of extensions to Gnome 3 to bring out the Mint flavor, which evolved into a fork of Gnome Shell because the extension system is limited in what you can do. Cinnamon is still Gnome 3 underneath. Only the interface was tweaked in a way that the Mint users are comfortable with. This is what makes Mint relevant.

  314. @ Clem. Sorry about this, as I didn’t know where else to post it, but is this a security issue? I still consider myself as a newbie to Linux, so I’m not quite sure what the implications of this are, or what’s involved. But if it is a security threat, could the guest accounts be disabled by default in Mint 13? See the story here for details:


  315. @Lord Mozart, I think Clem mentioned earlier that Mint 13 will not use lightdm. IIRC, it will use gdm for the Cinnamon edition and mdm for the Mate edition.

    Edit by Clem: Not necessarily. It will use whatever works best. All three DMs come with problems (GDM, MDM, LightDM) which we need to overcome, and they’re all considered for Mint 13.

  316. As far as Mint goes, Cinnamon works best. KDE on Mint needs a serious overhaul as its buggy. And finally I’d love to see a Mint Enlightenment desktop available.

  317. @Craig (the other one)

    Why don’t you refer yourself as Craig The Two or Craig II, because it doesn’t help text-evaluating which Craig is typing. LOL

  318. Hi
    For me LMDE is the future of Mint with MATE or XFCE. Cinnamon is nice but I lack some freedom in the configuration like full removal of panels. I also have issues with xrandr on a dual screen machine when I use Cinnamon that I don’t have with MATE or XFCE. In all cases I take the opportunity to say thank you to Clement and to the team for their great job!

  319. I am running Gnome 3 on my HP Pavilion – single core 2.4 GHz AMD 4000+ with 2GB ram.
    I tried the 64 bit and it was glitchy so i installed the 32_64 version and it works great.
    I personally love being able to just punch the corner and have everything there.
    If I get lonesome, I can still hit menu.
    I do believe that it has been improved through updates since I first installed it.
    Cinnamon and Mate seem like a step backwards to me but I will admit that I am nothing but a (user).
    For me, Gnome 3 has a little life to it and actually feels like something new.
    Have a little patience with software manager and the rest, just plain works.

  320. Really, the best way you can come up with to promote SolusOS is to spam another OS blog site? Sad dude.

  321. @petere, why’d you include that link? While I like SolusOS too (I’m assuming you like it), it’s a little bit unhelpful to just post a link without an explanation of it (like, for example, if you want to use gnome 2 download this or something like that).

  322. As the only ‘Blog’ on the Web that’s likely to be heeded by its small development team, I guess that it’s hardly surprising that it has attracted so many new users and long pent-up frustrations like the small group who have always wanted Linux Mint to take a KDE desktop approach.
    Their views don’t seem to have changed much from LM-3 days, when the majority ‘voted’ for a Gnome-based approach that quickly evolved into the version that we all came to love (or hate), with LM-10 (Julia) probably being the pinnacle and able to accept a whole new generation of applications that were emerging and actually worked, like OpenShot.
    Sadly, thanks to Ubuntu Unity and Gnome3 that versatility seems to have been lost, on an ‘it ain’t broke so we’ll fix it’ basis, spurred on by bean-counter visions, so the valiant efforts of folk like the Zorin brothers, Clem’s team and those of the MATE and Cinnamon teams has been welcomed by those of us who simply want a ‘Keep It Simple’ and ‘free’ alternative to the fortress Redmond behemoth.
    As ever, being a simple user rather than a developer, I have my fingers crossed, hoping that Clem and the team will rescue us from the Unity / Gnome3 disaster !
    As per my vote, with LMDE I have been getting most mileage from MATE on my desktop, although LMDE still won’t install on my laptop, rather reminiscent of earlier Ubuntu days, where desperate changes of kernel didn’t really help
    So in the face of ‘negative vibes’, Very Good luck to Clem and his small team.

  323. I’m all for Cinnamon or Gnome 3. I like them both. If it means that Mint can be more autonomous and still create the gorgeous desktops it’s known for, I say slap Cinnamon on top of Debian and call it a day!

  324. When I tried Mint I realized it is the most user friendly distro of all. Its take on Gnome 2 is wonderful. Works perfectly out of the box. I am happy with Mint Katya till Lisa broke things.

    I am looking forward to Mint Maya with Mate to restore order. Thanks for a job well done.

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