Linux Mint 12 Preview

I would like to apologize to the community, the media, and the journalists who wrote to us to know more about our upcoming release. We’ve been extremely secretive and 3 weeks past the Ubuntu release it’s still unclear for most people exactly what the next Linux Mint will look like. The reason we’ve been so silent is because we didn’t want to promise something we could not guarantee. Today we’re finally ready to give you an in-depth preview of Linux Mint 12, codename “Lisa”. I hope you’ll enjoy it and I look forward to reading your feedback.

Gnome 2 vs new desktops

In Linux Mint 11 we made the decision to keep Gnome 2.32. The traditional Gnome desktop, although it’s not actively developed by the Gnome development team anymore, is still by far the most popular desktop within the Linux community. As other distributions adopted new desktops such as Unity and Gnome 3, many users felt alienated and consequently migrated to Linux Mint. We recorded a 40% increase in a single month and we’re now quickly catching up with Ubuntu for the number #1 spot within the Linux desktop market.

As much as we’d like to keep Gnome 2.32 a little while longer we need to look forward and embrace new technologies. This doesn’t mean we need to change the way people use their desktops, not at all, it means we need to try and do our best for people to feel at home again, but on top of a brand new base, a new layer of technology, one that is actively supported upstream and that can be maintained properly going forward.

From a technological point of view, Gnome 3 is a fantastic desktop, and it’s getting better with every new release. It will take time for Linux Mint to develop a Gnome 3 desktop that is on-par with what we had with Gnome 2, but eventually we’ll be able to do much more with it than was possible with the traditional desktop.

With this in mind, the future of Linux Mint is Gnome 3, the present of Linux Mint is a simple question: “How do we make people like Gnome 3? And what do we provide as an alternative to those who still do not want to change?”.

Gnome 3 and MGSE

Gnome 3 is shiny, elegant and modern looking. It’s a sleek desktop but it comes with a few problems:

  • It changes the way people use their computer
  • It’s application-centric, not task-centric (you switch between applications, not windows)
  • It doesn’t do multi-tasking well (you can’t see opened windows, system tray icons, etc..)

We’ve been using application menus, window lists and other traditional desktop features for as far as I can remember. It looked different in KDE, Xfce, or even Windows and Mac OS, but it was similar. Gnome 3 is changing all that and is developing a better way for us to interact with our computer. From our point of view here at Linux Mint, we’re not sure they’re right, and we’re not sure they’re wrong either. What we’re sure of, is that if people aren’t given the choice they will be frustrated and our vision of an Operating System is that your computer should work for you and make you feel comfortable. So with this in mind, Gnome 3 in Linux Mint 12 needs to let you interact with your computer in two different ways: the traditional way, and the new way, and it’s up to you to decide which way you want to use.

For this, we developed “MGSE” (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions), which is a desktop layer on top of Gnome 3 that makes it possible for you to use Gnome 3 in a traditional way. You can disable all components within MGSE to get a pure Gnome 3 experience, or you can enable all of them to get a Gnome 3 desktop that is similar to what you’ve been using before. Of course you can also pick and only enable the components you like to design your own desktop.

The main features in MGSE are:

  • The bottom panel
  • The application menu
  • The window list
  • A task-centric desktop (i.e. you switch between windows, not applications)
  • Visible system tray icons

MGSE also includes additional extensions such as a media player indicator, and multiple enhancements to Gnome 3.

Here is what it looks like (click on the screenshot to make it bigger):

As you can see it’s a mix of old and new. It’s a brand new desktop but with traditional components. We’re excited about the new technology but it’s important everyone feels at home. So a Mint desktop looks and behaves like a Mint desktop and this one feels both like Gnome 3 and the traditional Linux Mint desktops that preceded it. You can launch applications from the top left, easily switch between applications and workspaces using the window list or keyboard shortcuts, keep an eye on your notifications at the top and access Gnome 3 features like “activities” from the top-left corner.

The Fallback Mode

Gnome 3 requires video acceleration and that is something most systems have. In Linux Mint 12 we also made sure you could run Gnome 3 within Virtualbox, so if you enable 3D acceleration within your virtual machine, you should be able to enjoy Gnome 3 and MGSE without any additional drivers.

If you’re unlucky though, you’ll land into the “Fallback Mode”.

Do not be mistaken about the “Fallback Mode”, despite its looks, it has nothing to do with Gnome 2! It’s a Gnome 3 component and it’s completely incompatible with technologies such as Bonobo panel applets. It’s named appropriately as the “Fallback Mode” and it’s set to disappear eventually as Gnome 3 will gain more and more hardware compatibility.

MATE

MATE is a fork of Gnome 2.32, it looks and behaves exactly as Gnome 2.

The problem with Gnome 2.32 is that it conflicts with Gnome 3. It creates a lot of problems within the repositories and it would not be possible for users to run both Gnome 2 and Gnome 3. MATE on the other hand is supposed to be compatible with it. So you could have both MATE and Gnome 3 installed on your computer and be able to switch between desktops from the login screen.

In practice, MATE is a brand new project and it does conflict with Gnome 3 in many areas. We’re currently working hard in collaboration with the MATE developers to identify and fix these conflicts so that we can have both Gnome 3 and MATE installed by default on the DVD edition of Linux Mint 12.

Another issue with MATE is that, to be compatible with Gnome (3), it had to rename most of itself, and as a consequence, applications and themes that were developed for Gnome 2 need to be migrated towards MATE to become compatible with it.

Conflicts with Gnome and the migrations of applications and themes are easy to fix. So if MATE makes it to our liveDVD, it’s likely to come with some rough edges but with your feedback we’ll be able to solve most problems very quickly.

Search engines

Going forward, we won’t be using a custom search engine anymore. Linux Mint is the 4th most popular desktop OS in the World, with millions of users, and possibly outgrowing Ubuntu this year. The revenue Mint users generate when they see and click on ads within search engines is quite significant. So far this revenue’s entirely gone towards search engines and browsers. Our goal is to give users a good search experience while funding ourselves by receiving a share of this income. Search engines who do not share the income generated by our users, are removed from Linux Mint and might get their ads blocked.

In Linux Mint 12 and upcoming releases we’re hoping to provide users with the following commercial search engines: Ask.com, Google, Amazon, eBay, and the non-commercial Wikipedia.

It won’t only be down to donations and sponsorships anymore, your activity on the web, every search query you make and product you buy will help fund our project.

ETA

Traditionally, we release at the end of November, usually around the 20th. With that said, quality matters more than the time-frame and so until we’re happy with what we have, we won’t release it. We release “when ready” and so I can’t tell you for sure when that will be. I can tell you however how ready we are at the moment.

Our Gnome 3 desktop is fully ready and fully functional. We identified 10 bugs but they’re all minor and could get fixed either prior or post-RC.

We compiled and installed MATE alongside Gnome 3 on a test Ubuntu 11.10 machine before and were successful in running both desktops. We’re now packaging and building MATE differently and we’re progressing slowly but surely. We’re not 100% sure MATE will make it in time for the RC though and we do expect rough edges with it if it does.

Negotiations with browsers and search engines are still ongoing so the RC might miss a few search engines that could be added later on in the stable release.

At the latest we should have the RC out by the 11th of November. Again, that’s our goal in terms of time-frame, but if quality aspects come into play this date becomes irrelevant.

Feedback and reactions

We’ve been using Gnome 2 since 2006 and regarded by many as the best Gnome desktop available. With Gnome 3, we want to do the same again and let people decide on the experience they want to get, whether they want a pure Gnome 3 desktop, an MGSE one whether they want to stay with MATE. We’re dealing with three brand new technologies, in many ways we’re starting from scratch again. With this post you now have a better idea of Linux Mint 12 will be like, and so now and more than ever, we’d be delighted to know what you think of it, to get your feedback and your reactions.

Thank you for using Linux Mint and I look forward to reading your comments.

1,007 comments

  1. This is why I love Mint.

    You’re approaching Gnome 3 and the cessation of Gnome 2 in a very positive and constructive manner. The choices made for Gnome 3 under Mint 12 seem pretty reasonable and entirely useful. MGSE seems to tick all the boxes in my list of why I didn’t like Gnome 3/Gnome-shell.

    I just hope we can turn off the icons in the window list and have everything in a single panel as with Gnome 2/Mint 11.

    Very much looking forward to 12.

  2. Once again – the Mint Team provides an amazing example of why they’re the best Linux distro.

    Thanks so much guys! I am elated to hear about this Gnome3 solution.

  3. With this attitude you’re going to be the number 1 linux distribution in less than a year.
    It’s great how thoughtful you are with users

  4. * Gnome shell certainly looks quite interesting. The good part is the task switcher, which for me is indispensable, and it looks quite nice. The bad part being the redundancy of the application menu, when you already have the overview from where you can launch applications. Any reason for implementing it? It does look very good though. Perhaps you can remove the application overview?

    * Is there any reason you chose to use the Adwaita theme rather than the mint-x theme from the earlier releases? I, for one, prefer the latter.

    * Is the bottom panel configurable?

  5. If you can get rid of the “applications” link in the top left of GNOME 3, this will be, quite possibly, my favorite GNOME 3 distro. Keep innovating.

  6. Sounds and looks good , Clem and entire team , u guys are doing fine job, great efforts , hope they turn into gr8 results…..

  7. I’m loving the embracement of Gnome 3 in Mint… but I’m also glad you folks decided on Gnome 2.32 for Mint 11, it’s saved many from the hardships of early Unity, which is maturing along quite nicely now. Early Gnome3 was not welcomed with open arms, but I’m glad it’s shaping up to be something useful, especially within Mint, my favorite of Linux distros. 🙂

  8. sounds great, really want to see Linux Mint grow even more and I’m pretty sure it will, so Clem and all the Mint Team keep on the amazing job, and take all the time you need to make LM 12 as terrific as LM 11 is.

    Linux Mint ROCKS!! \m/

  9. Love what you did with Gnome 3. I am currently using Gnome Shell on top of Ubuntu 11.10 but will definitely switch back to Mint when it’s realised. Good to see that you are embracing new technology, I like Gnome Shell but this could be even better.

  10. I would love to have AWN completely replace the Gnome panel by default. I do it with fresh installs of Mint 11, and it’s so much more feature-rich and configurable. Can the top bar in Gnome3 be removed or disabled? You might want to before releasing the RC and/or the final release.

  11. I just put Debian on my PC so I wouldn’t have to update but now I feel I want to try it. Clem, I know you wouldn’t wreck the wonderfulness of Mint so I am going to give it a go when you release it. Thank you. 🙂

  12. Thanks a lot for sharing these info. They finally make clear rumors about new release.
    I am looking forward to it.

  13. This sounds like the best possible solution going forward. If only more developers cared so much about what people actually using their products thought and felt.

    I can’t wait to give “Lisa” a spin!

    Oh, and I am now absolutely certain (if I ever doubted it in the first place) that my sponsorship is some of the bets financial decisions I have ever made!

    Keep up the good work Clem and all!

    PS
    I may now seriously consider if I can also donate some time and work to Linux Mint… 🙂

  14. Thank you for the update on Linux Mint. I simply cannot understand why so many people are against Gnome3. I have enjoyed Gnome desktop for many years but like with so many things, change happens and things have a natural tendency to evolve.

    Mint, for me, filled the need for an OS that would steer me away from Microshite and does it in a much better way than Ubuntu. All this arguing for or against Unity, Gnome3 or whatever seems pointless as I trust that the vision of the Linux Mint team will continue to provide us with a superior experience.

    And for those who are condemning the change before it actually plays out, would you rather we were still driving a horse & buggy instead of cars……I can direct you to many contemporary arguments in favour of the horse & buggy, but that would get us nowhere.

    To the Mint team, my sincerest thanks.

  15. Hi Clem,

    Thanks for the update. We’ll do what we can to support you, and our mirrors are working better and better here at mirrors.serverhost.ro. Just waiting for the RC with the hope we’ll be finally included on your official lists and in the Mint Installer as well.
    We’re on this track since February, providing a good mirroring for the Mint project, yet another mirror made it to the lists, and not us. Please take your time on this issue, as we’re taking it to support the project.
    The news regarding Lisa are great, I can hardly wait to give it a spin (and setup). How about LMDE? How it will be affected? As a Debian user for most of the time, I also have a LMDE box and I wonder about the future of it.
    It’s a great job you have done with MGSE, and your user-centric view will get you further than that, I am sure. Keep up the good work and the well-appreciated fresh attitude 🙂

    Regards,
    Victor

  16. i’m impressed . wasn’t interested so much in gnome 3, till now. looking forward .

    p.s. please implement the google’s +1 button to the blog

  17. Some interesting ideas here, I totally understand why you want to keep the Gnome2 look and feel and I do to, will definitely give them a go before I decide if I want to go the LXDE or XFCE route instead.

  18. Tengo linux ye fantastic me parece fantastico , favor de señalar un sitio donde descargarlo…
    gracias

  19. I’m probably one that contributed to that 40% increase – Linux Mint is now my main operating system at home. Keep up the good work!

  20. Our CEO needed a new laptop last week, so we introduced her to Mint 11 on the new laptop. She loves it. And now with MGSE coming, she’ll be able to upgrade without fear of losing productivity due to having to learn yet another desktop environment.

  21. Once again, you guys do what’s best for the users. Thank you so much for your commitment to quality and to us.

    I’ve been using GNOME 3 (in Fedora) and like you say, it’s got great promise and looks good. I actually am fairly happy with it already.
    (and when I’m not, there’s KDE!)

    I definitely am going to install Mint 12 with the GNOME 3 technology.
    No griping from me about when things will be ready…take your time, make sure things are as good as you can get them.

  22. IMVHO, the bottom panel looks really bad.
    I’d blame the fading icons that make give the panel an overall unclear look, and the brackets that all names start with, it kind of adds an extra character for bloat only, makes it unclean too.
    The application menu also looks like “empty-hearted”

    Other than that the look is sharp as hell, especially the systray. Hope i’ve helped, keep up! 😉

    1. @thartist: Thanks for the feedback. The brackets indicate which windows are minimized (same as in Gnome 2), on the screenshots most of my windows were. There’s no relief and/or separation between items in the window list and I think you’re right… it’s missing badly. We’ll try to add this (it’s a matter of defining the style in CSS). For the icons, I’d like to get more feedback. We can revert them to normal looking icons, or we can make it configurable via mintDesktop.

      @All (about LMDE): We’re holding the updates on LMDE at the moment for two reasons: X11 is broken upstream and Debian is in the process of updating Gnome to version 3 in testing. When Gnome 3.2 and X11 are healthy in Debian testing we’ll release a new update pack along with MATE packages and MGSE for LMDE.

  23. Nice work !
    Gnome 3, according to the screenshot seems still not 100% finished (some aspects of the design are’nt good), but I will give it a try.

    What’s the Linux Kernel you will use ? The one in Ubuntu : 3.0.x ?

  24. Also, i’d like to propose 2 design ideas in one:

    What would you think of putting a single menu button like Opera or Firefox in Nautilus, and making it tabbed? Why not now?

    1. @thartist: Nautilus already supports multi-tabs, you can open them from the menu or by pressing CTRL+T. Did you mean this or something else?

  25. I am slowly switching from ubuntu to linux mint. I do believe that not Gnome 3 is the real pain in the ass, but unity is. Also the default Gnome3 Shell (desktop) is not the kind of desktop i would like to use in the future.
    I like the tradi…tional desktop, with panel and menu.
    The Panel and Menu used in BeOS/Haiku enhanced with a gnome3 (or compiz) touch is what i would really like for a desktop.
    A Laptop/Desktop PC does not need the same approach as a Tablet.

  26. Everything seems to be going on the right direction. Mint seems to keep listening to it’s users and what they want. Always giving more choice can only be good, as long as there are the resources to do it, and do it well.

    Only after getting my hands on the RC can i say more.
    One last thing: having the Gnome3 and MATE coming into play right now will make this idea ‘undo-able’, but that Gnome Nautilus has one big flaw: we can’t manually enter a path like in Dolphin or Explorer. You can do (way) better, Clem. Maybe a Mint Xplorer would be in order for a future release?

    That said, i believe this will be a quality release, as always.

  27. I’m excited about the Preview of Linux Mint 12!
    Linux Mint is the right Way: his Ideolgie follows that which is most important: the User! Ubuntu only follows the Ideas of its Creators … without regard for losses.

    I’ve been a Linux Mint 9 and it will stay that Way! Thanks to the Linux Mint Team and All who invest a lot of Work and Time!

  28. that’s exactly what makes Linux Mint the best distribution out (t)here … thinking about users as the ones that should feel comfortably at home with their computer. keeping silent and not spreading rumors around on the net is the best way to get a system that simply works because it’s ready when released and doesn’t force you to fiddle around and have update & bugfix-orgies day by day.
    thanks to Clem & the whole team!

  29. As long as I can make my own desktop with some panels, background etc. out of the way of the fully configurable windows (so I can work) it is allright with me.
    I have not seen this in Gnome 3 I tested already in Fedora 15 and I was very sad. So I have had the very good KDE legacy in PCLOS, the great Gnome legacy because of KDE 4 and now I use Xfce because of Gnome 3 :laughing:
    Very couragious you guys. Best wishes! I find a way. 🙂

  30. Good thing that Linux Mint will be going GNOME 3 but will be keeping the previous looks and feel. However, Katya’s single taskbar, Mint Menu, and Mint-X theme looks better than Lisa’s.

  31. As I’ve come to expect now, the Linux Mint team have take an excellently judged approach to Gnome 3 and the necessary upheaval involved. I whole-heartedly approve of this — you’ve got the balance of innovation and user-centricity just about perfect, for my money. I’ll look forward to trying Lisa out, when she’s available, and even more so to MGSE being available on LMDE, where I get my real work done, when the time comes in due course. Great work!

  32. I cannot understand what all the fuss is about, everyone I know has a mobile phone, and they are mostly touchscreen and icons, I already use gnome 3 and have had no problems yet.

    On another note, will it be possible to update linuxmint-11 to linuxmint-12, or will it have to be a fresh install?.

    Keep up the good Clem and team

  33. Now I have started to learn how Linux Mint works, and then they change the whole thing.
    Have used it for some years after ditching winDOS. That was just the problem with winDOS, after each new edition, it changed the way user interacts.
    And now Linux Mint is going the same way. New is not always better.
    The people I have helped going from winDOS to Linux Mint is now left behind.
    What they liked, was that it was easy, and that the upgrades came with some news, but not changed the whole interaction.
    Now you are doing (almost) the same as UBUNTU did.
    Why did lots of user come over til Linux Mint?

  34. Im very happy with LMDE but now, with this post, im really excited with the new Mint 12…

    Lets see if the MATE becomes full featured and gets working fine. I liked the idea behind the Mint Shell but still i dont want migrate to Gnome 3.. This is Desktop, in my case, so I want to use my computer as an desktop, not some crap with styles and blablabla like Gnome3.

    Hope MATE becomes ready just like Gnome2…

    Loving, more and more, Mint…

    1. @Jay: Of course. All we do is primarily for Linux Mint but also Open Source and open to everyone out there. MGSE should be compatible with any Gnome 3.2 desktop no matter what distribution you’re using.

  35. Sounds good to me! Gnome 3 it is, I hate unity :/ Your releases are always worth the wait, and i can’t wait to see what you all come up with next! Great job clem and the rest of the mint team !

    1. @Innocent Bystander: Possibly, but until we have a precise idea of what people want, it’s worth giving them as many options as we can. If tomorrow we find everybody loves MGSE and nobody uses MATE, we’ll take a different approach. For now the most popular desktop is without a doubt Gnome 2, and so it’s important we maintain MATE.

  36. It is sad to see Mint has sunk to the standards of other distros. by kicking out GNOME 2 despite the fact that many users still want it.

    By doing this you have bought Mint down to the level of Ubuntu (WHICH IS LOW)

    Myself I shall continue with Mint 11,Mint 9 LTS and more notably LMDE and turn off ALL the sources to avoid all the GNOME 3 CRAP!

  37. I left Ubuntu 11.11 (Ubuntu 10.04 & 10.10 were great) for Linux Mint 11, because of Unity, neither my wife nor I liked it and our computer ran like a dog with unity on it. So very much appreciate the user empathetic route that Linux Mint is taking with the upcoming desktop changes.

    Great work people!

  38. good to see you’re not even considering unity. although it would be interesting to hear why. i assume the reasons are technical.
    that said, whatever you do with gnome 3, you can’t go wrong with giving users as many configuration options as possible, and building them in the system by default, so they don’t have to hunt down sometimes dodgy extensions themselves. forget about canonical/gnome mind-games, just give people options and don’t try to force them to use unintuitive and alien UI concepts.
    if what you presented here also works buglessly, then it’s a winner, plain and simple.

    1. @istok: Unity is not popular so we wouldn’t support it as such. As a component to implement our own desktop, I’m not sure… it doesn’t implement the paradigms we think are essential and I would be worried about technical debt if we were to patch it. We’re experiencing this with technologies such as Ubiquity already. Of course we could fork it or use it as a case-study to create our own compiz-based desktop from scratch, but I think the underlying technology behind Gnome 3 is far more interesting and promising to do things like that. Also, there’s a possibility the Gnome development team might initially hate us for coming with MGSE, but there’s also a possibility they might look at the positive response, and unlike Gnome 2, port some of our innovations towards Gnome 3 itself. Users with old habits are facing a brand new desktop, part of the problem are the old habits, part of the problem are the lack of maturity in the new desktop… you can expect both the user base to adapt towards Gnome 3 as time goes by and Gnome 3 to adapt some of its paradigms over time as well. In the end, people always get what they want. They might change their mind after a while if you show them something that is new to them, but if they persist in not liking it, eventually you adapt your offer to them. I’ve no doubt Gnome will go through that process as well.

      @Fewt: Ah ah.. 🙂 Well.. Perberos is helping us a lot in fixing things upstream in MATE itself, we’re also working in close collaboration with stefano-k (for Debian) and we’re repackaging things. You can follow our work on https://github.com/linuxmint/Mate-Packages. We’re a small team, that’s for sure, but things progress fast as a result. It doesn’t really matter who’s in control of the different aspects of the project, we’re working well together and getting things done. So on my side I’m more than happy to work with them and not to look elsewhere, they’re doing a really good job. If you’re interested in the development of MATE you can follow our discussions on freenode’s #mate channel).

  39. @Clem – I’ve been thinking through the impact of forking GNOME 2. The MATE project when I looked at it initially (some time ago) wasn’t really ready for prime time and only building on Arch. What are your thoughts on it over a completely new fork?

  40. Linux Mint is just amazing and with the changes and options that will come will be even better! In Brazil only Linux Mint

  41. Tip for LMDE users. Switch the repository to Debian Stable. Do it now before you get a load of CRAP you don’t want !

  42. Guy, I understand your disappointment, but the main decision isn’t up to Mint – don’t get upset with Clem. If anything, their work with MATE and the decision to offer both options this cycle is the best that GNOME 2 fans can hope for.
    GNOME made the decision to end support for GNOME 2…Clem and the rest of the Mint devs have gone out of their way to make the transition less abrupt.
    You’ll probably do best with LMDE for now, but at some point next year, MATE will be your only option.
    I have decided to move forward and use GNOME 3, but only because I’ve tried it out for a few weeks and find it a much better environment than Unity.

  43. What about applets? I have used Gnome 2 because of the ability to add panels and applets which allow me to configure the desktop to fit the way that I work. It sounds like you are creating MGSE to keep the Gnome 2 usability while having Gnome 3 underneath but will I still have all of the configuration option as with Gnome 2?

    Thanks for the update. It is nice to know how you are working on keeping the project up-to-date without sacrificing the users’ wishes in the process.

    1. @Jeff: Applets won’t work in Gnome 3 but they can be migrated to work with MATE.

      @Carlos: The Linux Mint 12 packages are 100% compatible with Ubuntu 11.10. We won’t create the PPA ourselves but anyone can take our mgse packages and place them in a PPA for convenience. Alternatively Ubuntu users can install these packages from our repositories, that would work as well.

      @itbcn8: You tell us during the RC 🙂 I’ve personally experienced regressions with Banshee and Filezilla but my dev. computer is a real mess in terms of libraries 🙂 Seriously though, both GTK+ and GTK3 applications run fine in gnome 3, this is no concern. Ubuntu introduced some changes to core filesystem paths so a few things might break as a result (that’s documented in 11.10’s release notes) and there might be some conflicts arising between MATE and Unity when it comes to systray icons and indicators… so we might end up breaking things like the Network Manager in Unity if that makes it work in MATE.

  44. Wow; surely this is some kind of Voodoo! And there was me thinking you’d made the wrong decision to adopt Gnome 3. Looks beautiful; can’t wait to try the RC. (I know I’m probably pushing my luck here, but any chance of a “heads up” on compiz compatibility?). Great work Clem and team.
    This is precisely the kind of dedication that has put Mint in the #1 spot on Distrowatch (last 7 days:Ubuntu 2060, Mint 3417) and makes me feel proud to introduce the non-believers to Linux.

  45. Seeing a reasonable, cautious plan from a major distro design team is something that should happen WAY more often. There’s so much sanity, intelligence, and logic on display in this post and this plan that I feel quite shocked after all the bombast, flamewars, and dictatory design which the development of Gnome3 and Unity have shown us.

    Linux Mint is a project with its head in exactly the right place, and one that I’m proud to introduce to anyone. I’m seriously considering volunteering now as well.

  46. I’m really looking forward to the Gnome desktop updates for LMDE….thanks for addressing the technical issues that are currently delaying progress in this area……hope they’re fixed soon….in the meantime, I’ll try Lisa (in VirtualBox) when it becomes available…Keep the rapid pace of sensible innovation coming…..we’re all grateful 🙂

  47. Thank you so much for standing apart from Ubuntu and other distros who went the vanilla Gnome Shell route! This is really going to make Mint unique.

  48. I love the new updates coming! Great job guys. One thing though, how are the apps in gnome 3? Any incompatibilities with what is currently in the software manager?

  49. Hello,

    Just want to say your Gnome3 screen shot looks interesting, nowhere close to the polish of Mint11 but as you say this is a new technology and your still learning, I dare say in a release or 2 it will look a lot better and more polished.

    I have a netbook which I try everything on first and screen real estate is at a premium and this is the reason that I like Mint11 I can hide the bottom panel and have lots of real estate! This is also the reason why I have tried and removed Ubuntu/Unity and Fedora/Gnome3 I just didnt like the way the desktop worked or didnt give me enough screen space. So I only have 1 question which has not been answered yet:

    The top panel/ bar can it be hidden or removed?

    The rest I can live with as I am sure it will mature and be polished by the fantastic team you have at Mint.

    Thank you,

    Wolfie

    P.S. I have used mint since Mint9 and is always on at least 2 of my machines, you guys do a fantastic job 😀 Keep up the good work!!!

  50. Looks very promising 🙂
    Can´t wait to try it, i always got spare partions for testing but if it´s as good as 11 it will replace 11 as my deafult “Linux Desktop” 🙂

  51. Thanks for the update. I will be returning to Mint when 12 RC is released; looking forward to making this distro my home going forward. In my opinion this what Mint is doing with Gnome 3 is how it should’ve looked in the first place. Great Job and can’t wait for the RC.

  52. Sounds perfect. You recognize the opportunity that Ubuntu’s toxic relationship with GNOME has given you, and if you do a good job with GNOME 3 / GNOME Shell you will have plenty of converts.

    Goodbye to Unity, hello to my new desktop, Mint 12

  53. This is why I love Linux Mint! They have taken the controversial Gnome 3 desktop and made it so it can easily be modified to suit the user. It was a smart move by the Mint team to implement MGSE to keep the current Mint users happy, and I think this move may actually help Gnome 3 gain more acceptance, provided the Gnome team takes a lesson from the Mint team. Great job Clem & team!

  54. Wow, great work Clem & co.! I only hope the new Gnome 3 Mint flavour won’t be as resource-hungry as the Shell one. Although I’m a devoted LMDE user, I’m so excited about Mint 12…

    @Bjorn: They are not changing the whole experience. They are just trying to give you the choice to pick the desktop you feel more comfortable with. Probably you like Gnome 2 as many of us do, so for that reason MATE is being developed, it’s almost the same as Gnome 2. You have to keep in mind that the default one isn’t supported anymore, and keeping it compatible with upstream ubuntu repositories (and soon the Debian ones) will be harder and harder. Try Xfce or go back to Mint 9, it still rocks and will be supported till 2013. The good thing of Linux Mint is that no one is left behind, and will never be, it listens it’s community, that’s why it is so popular. Give it a try 😉

  55. They work hard for us, for whole community. Let’s support them!
    If every user will give a $1 Clement and his team will have enough funds. And they will feel our positive feedback.

    1. @Turin: Thanks 🙂 Though we’d much prefer if a tenth of the user base gave $10. The smaller the sum the more you actually give to Paypal. On a $1 donation they take 33%! On a $10 donation, they take 6.4%… and so on. It would be phenomenal of course to see millions of donations the same month, I’m not sure we’d have enough time to process them though 🙂

      @Guy: Mate is the future of Gnome 2. It looks and behaves in every way like Gnome 2. If I put you in front of MATE and didn’t tell you it was MATE you would think it’s Gnome 2.32. The problem with it is that as “MATE” it’s brand new. So all the themes and applets which used to work with “GNOME” now need to be migrated to work with “MATE”. We’ll get that right eventually. In terms of desktop though, MATE IS GNOME 2 and we’re bringing it to the Debian scene. Keep in mind, when you talk about choice, that if we had decided to stick with Gnome 2 itself (as opposed to MATE), that would have meant we would have had to “hide” and make it impossible for users to install Gnome 3 in Linux Mint 12… that’s not more choice, that’s less choice.

  56. That screenshot looks fantastic, Clem. You and Team Mint are really demonstrating a mature, inclusive approach to making an already great distro even better. Thanks so much for the update and keep up the good work.

  57. I’ll have to admit. I wasn’t happy about the direction that many of these pc operating systems are taking. If I wanted a tablet looking operating system I’ll buy a tablet. I don’t want my desktop or laptop to look like a tablet. That simple.

    After looking at the screen shot here and reading this, I’m VERY excited about the upcoming new mint. I can hardly wait.

  58. The Mint team gives no evidence of sinking to standards of other distros. Wake up people! What Clem has so clearly said is that Gnome 2 is no longer in development by the Gnome people who make Gnome work. Therefore, it will no longer receive updates. Who wants such a huge part of their desktop experience to be completely unsupported? Remember, Gnome is just another layer that is maintained completely outside of Linux Mint and all other Linux distros. In other words, if Linux Mint chooses Gnome, then their only choice is Gnome 3. I don’t know how many different ways there are to say this. What they are actually doing is everything possible to make the 1975 Pinto drivers happy, and that is going way above and beyond the call of duty. They could do what Ubuntu did and build their own desktop environment like Unity. Talk about dividing of resources! Your choices are to stick with earlier versions of Mint with LTS. They still work great. Wait for LXDE, or other managers. Or if you don’t like it, go somewhere else. And good luck finding a fully supported and updated Gnome 2 built on the latest Linux kernel. The choice is yours, but it absolutely stinks that there are people out there who dub these decisions as some cowardly compromise, or sinking standards! With so many factors involved in bring you a powerful desktop, the Linux Mint team is forced to make choices. Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  59. As a long term user, I suggest to switch fully to gnome3 now. The thing is that, we cant hold on to forks like mate on machines which are used to develop and running without shutting down for months. It is time, let ubuntu play with their fancy, where we make something reliable. Pure gnome3 with native fallback is the best choice. Kudos clem…

  60. The screenshot looks to be a perfect marriage of proven UI with new tech trends. I hope it works as well as it looks and allows me to use my PC rather than allow my PC to use me (like Unity/Gnome3)

    Also, keep in mind that your 40% increase is likely due to those of us who have abandoned Unity, and as a result, abandoned Ubuntu as a result.

    Food for thought for future decisions.

    Keep up the good work.

  61. You guys rock, LM12 seems like the perfect fusion from two worlds. Can’t wait to try it! (Mexican user).

  62. I agree with Napster. Embrace Gnome 3. Git ‘er done. It clearly looks like some of the greatest complaints of Gnome 3 are being effectively addressed. It’s just a matter of time before we’ll be kicking and screaming to not take our Gnome 3 away in the interests of Gnome 4. We’ve been here before folks.

  63. I use LMDE, great distro, crisp quality. (Still use Ubuntu 10.04 LTS sometimes)

    Keep up the good work, I like better how you handle releases than Ubuntu, I stopped at 10.04 LTS because of this.

  64. @PB

    When I began working with Linux is was on the philosphy of CHOICE ! We as Linux users are simply not getting it any more. Therefore it is time for you to ‘wake up’. I do not enjoy being so critical of Clem and the team but I feel I have the right to complain given I have worked with Mint since release 3.0 Cassandra which is long before many no doubt !

  65. Great news that we could get an RC as early as a week from now. I know now from experimentation that Gnome 3 can be made usable, and am glad to see you have branded your own tweak tools. For those that are worried about panel/applets configurability, it works the same as Gnome 2 except that you just have to hold the ALT key while right-clicking on the panel. So far the tweak tool has a large number of panel applets available, and I won’t be surprised if Clem adds more through MGSE. Can’t wait to give it a try.

  66. Congratulations on a very proactive and thoughtful handling of the situation. I’ve been using Mint since Darina, and the team has always provided top notch releases. The way in which you are resolving the Gnome 2 towards Gnome 3 transition has not been the exception to this high-quality job.

    Thank you for providing such an excellent GNU/linux experience.

  67. @ Clem

    If enough people screamed at you about the move away from GNOME 2.

    Would you listen? Would you listen to your devoted users ? I would like to think so.

    Would you listen and consider reinstating GNOME 2 ?

    I am angry, disappointed and generally pissed off as no doubt many others are !

  68. Like some others I am waiting for LMDE KDE. As awesome as I think the job is that you all are doing here (honestly, it’s quite refreshing and impressive), I left for KDE and see no reason to come back now. But the opportunity exists for there to be a great KDE experience in Mint.

    1. About KDE: I talked about it on the forums and I understand the situation you’re in. You’ve waited a long time for this and I promised we would look into it this December.

  69. Gnome 3 is great for getting my 75 yr old mother using the desktop. She does not have a ‘Windows’ history, so for her the interface is very intuitive. Being application centered is great; not getting 10 browser windows running at the same time (unless you explicitly want it).

    For me: making the Gnome 3 interface configurable ‘out of the box’ is just what it lacked… until Mint came along! really looking forward to it.

    Couldn’t you release a Beta? A longer period of feedback might benefit the Stable release, gnome 3 still being crisp..

  70. Thanks for the update. For now I’ll be sticking with the Debian edition. I’m sure you guys will make a very positive experience for users with the direction you’ve chosen to go, but I imagine their will be too many rough edges in this release and possibly the next as you guys try to find what can and cannot work merging the paths and add-ons.

    That being said, ANY version of Mint is far more polished than your average distro. You guys have earned our loyalty. Thanks.

  71. I can’t wait to run Linux Mint 12 on my PC.
    Everything about Linux Mint exceeds most of what I’m looking for in a OS. The only problem is my computer sometimes freezes while using Linux Mint 11. It doesn’t happen often as much, but if you can bring Codename Lisa to avoid such a freeze, then I’m sure it’s all great from there on out. Goodluck and I hope to see a release date soon.

    Hopefully the interface is still being work on.
    It should be clean as possible and user friendly.
    I don’t like too many panels. 1 panel should be enough.

  72. It appears that I have earned a response from someone in particular, although I never mentioned any names. Anyway, we have just as many “choices” now, and if we really do the math, we will find that we actually have more. But I suppose that’s not to everyone’s liking. We even have “choice” with Windows. You can dig up an old version of 95 if you want, and run that. Get the idea? When you start comparing the “choices” that are still available and growing with Linux to the “choices” that we have with MS–well there really is no comparison is there? On another note, I never implied that we don’t have the right to complain. In fact, I believe I exacted my own right to complain in a previous post–hence, another post. But even in my own case, what good is complaining? Our time is better spent either embracing what has been made available to us, or re-inventing the wheel and doing it all ourselves. The “choice” is ours. And by the way, I dare say that the choices we have now in reference to Linux are exponentially greater than they were with Cassandra.

  73. Sir, I am sold (again). With the announcement of MGSE + Gnome 3, you’ve just made my day! I hope eventually it’ll land in LMDE, too, because that’s what I’m using day by day. Thanks for your great work, guys!

  74. Excellent decisions all around. Here’s to your taking over in Linux domination and may you then take Mac and finally Bill.

    Well done on the revenue model too. You earn well from it and deserve to.

  75. Appreciate the update. Looking forward to moving to Mint 12 from Ubuntu 11.10 ASAP! Thanks for all you do, and how you’re doing it!

    1. @drum: No, but the RC is around the corner 😉

      @Rayan: compared to mintMenu it’s obviously missing many features. It’s possible to migrate mintMenu itself to work with Gnome 3 but we don’t think it would integrate well. We’ll add more and more features to this mgse-menu over time and we’ll migrate mintMenu to work with MATE.

      @teapot: The top panel is a limitation from Gnome 3, I’m not sure we can remove it. We made it grey so you don’t really notice it when your windows are open in full screen. For people who like one top panel and no bottom one, the menu and window list will also work on top, without any bottom panel. The search fied in the menu is focused on by default, so you don’t need to reach your mouse to click into it, you can just start typing. The favorites, like the applications get their name and description written in the label on the bottom right of the menu when you pass your mouse over them, so you quickly know what’s under your mouse and unlike tooltips you don’t need to wait for the information to appear 😉

      @wolveine tech: All except one are enabled by default (the xrandr one). You can use gnome-tweak-tool, which is installed by default, to disable any of them as you like. We recommend you restart the shell after making your selection. As for bugs and instability, it’s the same as for every other project out there, our code includes bugs and we rely on you to help us fix them. Some of the extensions were written by us from scratch, others were forked from other places (there’s a credits file in the extension when that applies), but there’s very little technical debt overall.

  76. @ PB

    By choice I was making reference to having stuff like Gnome 3 / MATE etc. forced down our throats.

    GNOME 2 supported or not is tried tested and works. So just what is the point of introducing the instability of GNOME 3. I have had horrendous experiences with it on Fedora 15. It is for that very reason so many prefer to run Fedora 14.

    That speaks volumes in itself does it not ?

  77. I wont get into any discussion about Gnome versions, but as A USER who knows very little about the technical side of things, there’s a few humble points I’d like to make:

    1. I’m not sure if the top panel is a good idea. Apart from looking cool for a day or so it usually does nothing that couldn’t be done in the bottom panel. In my experience.

    2. Unless you have already done that, it would be cool if you could fix the volume control menu. No, there’s nothing wrong with it technically, but the arrangement of items STILL makes me accidentally mute sound or go into sound preferences. (Maybe THIS would be way to do it: http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3624/volumecontrol.jpg ?)

    3. I agree with the criticism of the fading effects in the bottom panel.

    4. Concerning the Menu: I think it’s a good idea to include the “Favorites” in that left hand list, BUT I wouldn’t remove the labels (at least *I* don’t know the meaning of every symbol) and all the “Places” (especially “home folder” and “computer” might actually be used sometimes). Plus, I think the search field should stay below the list of applications (I use it a lot and that’s where I usually first look after clicking “Menu”).

    So those are my thoughts on Mint 12, all ready to be ignored 😉

  78. just cook it well clem, hope it’ll save us from our this painful user experience of genomeh shell.

  79. hello people 🙂
    *Great news*
    *wonderful idea*
    excellent work,Clem and mint team !!

    #Linux Mint is the best !!

  80. Clem and developers,
    Will the MGSEs be enabled by default?
    Or will the user be prompted for those during/post installation?
    Are their any stability issues due to the extensions?

    (Am planning to introduce my folks to Mint in Dec. Fingers crossed 🙂 )

    More power to Mint developers…

  81. Some people are reluctant to change, others always want the newest versions available. I like Gnome 2 and I just love Mint “Julia” which also works perfect on my hardware. I am not looking to change. As long as “Julia” works for me I will keep it.
    For those who always want the newest and latest, I believe Clem, that you are moving in the right direction. One is never able to please everybody but you and your team are going to great lenghts to try to do just that. I am sure the majority of users appreciate this. I know that I do. My thanks to you and your team.

  82. Related to ‘productivity’ issues in comparing Gnome 2 and 3 – using Gnome-Do makes calling up applications identical in 2 & 3. Would be great if Gnome-Do were installed by default… just a thought.

  83. Woow just amazing realy beautiful this is going to rock so hard.

    p.s:
    Will we see an updated site to? If you ask me it would be nice to update it make it more stylish.

  84. Any chance to have DuckDuckGo integrated too? A very promising search engine, compared to Ask.com, it’s better in terms of quality IMO…

  85. I am in favour of MATE. Please, release this DVD with MATE.
    And an option to never have GNOME Shell to be loaded, before first start.
    Death to GNOME Shell.

  86. @drum: No, but the RC is around the corner 😉
    looking forward to it, many thanks from the Belgium Mint users

  87. @Clem

    My only concern, performance, I run Mint on a number of Atom-based systems, am I going to feel bogged down like Unity on these boxes? Overall though, really nice and very intrigued.

  88. Dear Clem, Sir, I salute your bold & ubiquitous stance in face of all odds & easy-excuses. Bravo!

    My humble feedback about screenshot:

    1)Icon size of running/minimized apps in taskbar(bottom-panel) should be reduced as much as to avoid contacting with upper/lower edges of taskbar and title text should successfully avoid overlapping it. Also icons should be fadeless/opaque.

    2) The translucent Start/App Menu should be equally distanced from taskbar (bottom) & left screen-edge (double right now). I’d prefer to have it rather gapless, so its slim(transparent?)border making direct contact with left-side & bottom. Also, since all corner-edges are smoothly rounded throughout app-menu, then that left vertical bar (favorites icon container?) shouldn’t have pointy-corners.

    3) Can we have all the system tray icons from top right corner ported to bottom panel/taskbar through an optional Extension (MGSE) and one unified panel?

    Few points, you can totally ignore them if you like:

    a) Would you please consider taking Mr.L.Torvalds’s feedback &/or discussion into developing MATE?

    b) Do you see, as founder of LinuxMint, building whole-new-level of closer & deeper strategic ties with Mr.M.Shuttleworth, in near future in case he realizes the extraordinary potential as a consequence of this current declaration of yours?

    Thank you very much for being the voice of public sentiment!

  89. Hi, Thanks team mint.
    I hope mint 12 will be fast, and one thing love to be present in it,that is I want more applications installed for designers and publishers users. And a video support with a complete learning of mint 12. Thank you all, go forward. I love mint 9 more much from the others.

  90. For those that don’t visit there often, or at all, DistroWatch shows Mint has overtaken Ubuntu, and is in the #1 spot now. 🙂

  91. Mint 12 sounds like a collision of 2 worlds. I’ll probably stick with 11 or switch to Xfce version.. Gnome 3 doesn’t have any appeal to me.

  92. Having two panels is horible. If the top panel cannot be removed then, please, put the menu and windows list on top.

  93. I have been using Ubuntu for a few years and was completely sold on it. It seems now that they have lost focus with what users want and have their own agenda(Unity) at heart. To me Unity is worthless. I am switching to Linux Mint as soon as version 12 comes out. I am now a huge Mint fan! Great job and please don’t lose your commitment to the end user.

  94. Guys, thanks for your good work.

    I do belong to those 40% that came over after Unity in Ubuntu was introduced. Lets just say that Unity and me, we are no love story.

    So I found Linux Mint and installed LMDE – and I am happy again.

    I find your way of offering ways to migrate to a new desktop environment well thought out – and I will give it a try.

    Also please keep in mind the time investment of getting productive with a new desktop environment again. Unity and Gnome3 seem so alien to me that I did just quit after 30 frustrating minutes. I’ve got much better things to do than spend my time with inmature new desktops!

  95. @ NAS Storage Server:
    Clem Says:
    November 4th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    About KDE: I talked about it on the forums and I understand the situation you’re in. You’ve waited a long time for this and I promised we would look into it this December.

  96. I gave GNOME Shell 3.2 a try for a couple of weeks using Ubuntu Oneiric, and I ended up switching to XFCE for exactly the reasons you are addressing with MGSE. I am so excited to see this work, and I will likely switch to Linux Mint 12 once you folks release (take your time and do it right). 🙂

  97. awesome as usual, don’t follow the others, continue to lead the way, mint 11 has been “mint”, and funtional, no problems and i am comfortable with it, unity made me loose love for ubuntu sadly, i can’t wait to try 12….

  98. @Guy-I understand your annoyance, but think it should be at Gnome, not at Mint. I wouldn’t agree that Mint should stick on an unsupported version of a desktop-even though I too am not a fan of Gnome 3 and don’t intend to use it any time soon.

    With the Gnome developers having gone the way they did, I’d come to the conclusion some time ago that XFCE was the way to go. Mate sounds like another possibility.

    b (using Mint 9 with Gnome 2 at work, and Debian testing XFCE at home)

  99. Okay, so weve been put on hold all this time.... lets get to some points:

    1) Well I dont like the UGLY BLACK Mint Menu in Shell. It looks terrible! Is this because of GNOME Shell native theming? PLEASE MAKE IT GREY.

    2) Same kind of WALLPAPER!? Give me a break!!! I want some blue... please guys, do some BLUE MINT to revamp this theme. I am getting so sick of greenish. I feel less attracted to MINT, as it gets greyer and greyer.

    3) Bar on TOP: OK for now, wont be using it.

    4) Default font: Can you guys please use the *UBUNTU FONT* as default? It`s the only font that looks good in this sh1t. Apart from the TURD that the entire Canonical made Ubuntu of, the ONE thing I can praise is their font. PLEASE USE IT. It is better than Sans Font.

    5) Please, UNDERSTAND THAT this is our ONLY HOPE for now… I just feel like moving back to Windows 7. Really. Or CENTOS for that matter. So MINT guys understand HOW IMPORTANT IS YOUR APPROACH right now.

    6) But I also think that the RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT approach would be releasing ONE MORE GNOME 2.32x – but this would break upstream syncronization, as I understand. Well, MATE needs to succeed.

    5) PLEASE, MAKE THIS WORK!

  100. I am pleased you addressed the revenue side of things (via search engines) so you can continue to be around providing us with an OS oriented to users. Thank you for an informative update.

  101. I’ve been watching the linux community for many years, just waiting for a distro that felt right. I recently found exactly what I’ve been looking for in Linux Mint. I’ve since removed the “other” OS from my computer and have eagerly embarked on the wonderous road ahead. Wherever this road leads, I’ll be walking with Linux Mint. You guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  102. CONGRATULATIONS MINT

    YOU ARE NOW DISTROWATCH NUMBER 1.

    YOU NOW HAVE OUTNUMBERED UBUNTU, WHICH WAS THERE FOR THE PAST 6 YEARS OR SO.

  103. @LordOfKnowledge
    1) agree with you

    2) who cares, go to deviantART and get yourself a nice wallpaper if that’s important <.<

    3) i like the bar on top, if i'd have to remove a bar it would be the one at the bottom

    4) font in screen looks fine to me, changing a font post-install shouldn't be hard either?

    5) try archlinux or archbang if you're lazy

    6) i'm most interested in msge, mate is really good news though

  104. it’s a good idea to combine the old with the new look, note however, there is work on the appearance because it is a bit tacky compared with the default skin of Fedora or Ubuntu

  105. This post is an excellent example of why Mint is so popular and respected. I’m really excited to give Mint 12 a try, and very thankful that you’ve been working so hard and responding so well to people’s feedback. My only real concern is that there’s a danger that I’m becoming a fan boy.

  106. Thank you Clem. This is the reason that I choose Linux Mint: You offer the user choices. A pure Gnome 3 does not do this. One of the first things that appealed to me about Linux in general was that it offered users the ability to customize the look and feel of their desktop etc. Take all the time you need to get it right, I for one will be waiting with eager anticipation for as long as it takes.

  107. Linux Mint team – your approach to Gnome 3 seems very reasonable to me. It seems that I’ll switch from Isadora to next LTS you release (don’t tell her, she won’t like it).

  108. I find Gnome shell to be a fair compromise on the path that I believe will eventually have to end end in Gnome3 no matter what. What I truley hate about the present Ubuntu is the giant step backwards taken in tweaking theme colors (ie window background colors, menu colors, font colors,etc.) and no utility that even approaches teh limimted tweaks in the old “Appearence” utility. Tweaking Ubuntu or Mint themes was never about a perfect utility, but Gnome shell and Unity are seriously lacking in cosmetic tweaks and I see these as serious considerations from a user standpoint. The other factor that concerns me is that I would hate to see Mint become an ongoing beta test as Ubuntu seems to have become. This constant need for daily updates and maintenance has been near confounding with Microsoft product and there has to be a careful balance between ease of use and progress in an operating system that should, in reality, serve as a stable layer from applications. Ubuntu and Unity serve as a testament that users have little tolerance for reinvention of a perfectly good wheel. With that said I really appreciate the common sense processes and logic involved in Mint planning. There is nothing more brilliant than considering how the user experiences the platform…something the crew at Ubuntu for got to ponder somewhere along the way.

  109. This is why I love Mint.

    In most OS when there is a big change you get some new good features, some features you don´t like and lose a lot of useful features.

    But in Mint I get all the new good features and I can still use most of the old ones that I like and disable a lot of the new ones I don´t like. I´m hoping MGSE will be polished and nice for Mint 13 (probably not going to switch to Mint 12, just going to try it, as the versions I use now are working so nicely and I´m not missing anything in them at the moment.)

    A big thanks to Clem and all the developers/testers/forum people/every one else that I forgot, that are making Mint such a good OS!

  110. I’m one of the 40% of ubuntu “refugees” that decided to try mint when ubuntu went to unity. Mint impressed me with extra user friendliness I didn’t see in ubuntu. All the things about ubuntu I used to change right away were already done in Mint.

    I’m hoping mint 12 supports the home folder being on it’s own drive/partition out of the box w/o advanced configuration.

  111. @Clem

    Great news that I relay.

    About search engines choice: though my search engine of choice is Google, as I am living in China, Google suffers there, probably intently, some problems and I have to use most of the time Bing or Yahoo.

    I guess this will still be possible?

  112. Brilliant! especially impressed with MGSE and the deal with search engines!

    Couple of things:
    Please make sure I can shut down my computer without having to log out and then shut down. I hated this last time I tried gnome 3.
    I really hope that you are not planning on using the default gnome 3 theme, I’m not a fan of it (though, I can change it myself if need be)
    I too am a fan of the DuckDuckGo search engine, would be great to see it integrated.

    Tim

  113. After looking at the screen shot, I’m all for MGSE. Thats almost identical to what I have my desktop setup to look like in Mint 11. Having a choice of MATE, MGSE, or G3 at login (and/or selectable as default) out of the box would be ideal. If the Gnome dev’s arent going to keep the G2 style/functionality in G3, then thats the way it is. Unless some would be dev’s take up the G2 torch to continue the maintenance and continued development of it themselves. After all, thats how the open source community grows in the first place. So, great job Mint team!!! Cant wait for Mint 12 to be released.

  114. Greetings,

    I agree with tux that Duckduckgo should be looked into. As privacy is a concern with many mint users, the fact that they do not track your searches should make it worth including.

  115. Well it’s true that the provided screenshot isn’t as great as Mint 11.
    Nevertheless, thank you for this post and your tremendous work on Mint.

    Did you consider switching XFCE instead of Gnome 3 as base for Mint?
    (well, probably you did, but I’m curious about arguments against it!)

    And about your blog: it would be great to have a link pointing to the main Linux Mint website. (or did I miss it?)

    Keep on with the good work!

  116. Clem, if the top panel can’t be easily removed, you could always use a bit of CSS hacks to get rid of it. Setting the entire thing to “display: none;” should make it vanish. Whether this will cause strange issues with maximised windows I don’t know, but there’s only one way to find out!

  117. I like Linux Mint, I give a try when Ubuntu 11.04 change to Unity. I want to know if Gnome 3 going to work in a slowly pc?? or only in a 2 core pc’s. I really like Linux Mint, but the most I like its the “Menu”, its easy to use and its very pretty. Good job! and I cant wait to see the new Linux Mint 12.

  118. Seems like there’s a lot of selfish geezer in the linux world who doesn’t want a change even if it’s just a little. Myself ? Was a big fan for gnome2,but wouldn’t mind to change if it’s something like MGSE. Couldn’t wait it’s release for LMDE, thanks mint dev’s !!!

  119. I like the idea of choice in the one install. Sooner or later, you may want to depreciate the less popular options. Other than via this forum, how will you know which options people are choosing? I suggest that you need some kind of (automatic) feedback mechanism else you will get only the views of techies like us.

    I like my screen real estate. I don’t want two panels. Windows is the most popular operating system. It allows you to put your (single) panel at the top, bottom, left or right-hand side. How many panels (i.e. task bars) do you see that are not at the bottom? This tells us something about what people want.

    The Mint Menu in Mint 11 looks better than the black one shown in your preview here. I prefer tool tips at the cursor (i.e. where I’m looking) to a caption at the bottom. You soon get to know which icon is which. A slight delay is no problem when you are learning. Once you are quick, you wouldn’t see them much.

    It is not obvious where one clicks to log off or to shut down the system. There needs to be an obvious control for this. Please do not put it in the bottom right-hand corner as this is where Windows 7 has its icon for showing the desktop. Please do not put it in the top right-hand corner as it will be clicked on by mistake by most users trying to close a window. On the Mint Menu would be a good place.

    In the top right-hand corner, you show the name of the person currently logged on. This is unnecessary. You know who you are. Generally, you should lock your screen whenever you leave your seat. Your name will then be displayed on the login screen. If I forget to lock my screen, I don’t want the boss to be reminded that it was I who forgot today. If I were an adversary, I would find it useful to know who I was attacking.

    In Mint 11, there is a redundant (LM) logo to the left of the LinuxMint(11) logo. It would be a good time to clean up the wallpaper.

    Is full data encryption included?

    Generally, good job…can’t wait to try it!

  120. I’m not the most knowledgeable person about all of the things that happen “under the hood” of a Linux distribution. However, I have tried to absorb what I can about Unity, Gnome 2, and Gnome 3 to understand what all of the fuss is about. I believe that proceeding now with Gnome 3 while also retaining/creating a familiar layout is absolutely the right direction. I am definitely looking forward to meeting Lisa!

    And, hey, let’s say some of us do have problems with Linux Mint 12. It’s not like sticking with Linux Mint 11 for another six months would be a terrible thing while Clem and the gang pound out 13.

    As always, my deepest thanks to everybody that works on Linux Mint. Each and every one of you are highly appreciated for making something that works so well and is easy for any level of user.

  121. Thanks for all your efforts Clem and the Mint Team.

    It is because of Linux Mint that the majority of my students are embracing GNU/Linux. I tried to stir them to other distros as well (for exposure while waiting for LM12) but after experiencing LM 9, LM10, and LM11 they are very adamant it’s LM or back to MS.

    And with this preview, oh well, you now how it is. 😉

    More Power!!!

  122. I cant wait for this to come out.
    Clem, you have tried to give us the best of both worlds. Linux Mint is the best distro by far.

  123. Congratulations on being the #1 Linux distro!!!

    Some minor suggestions:
    1. Please remove the top panel, if at all possible.
    2. Why not leave the day,date and time in the lower right hand
    corner, where we are used to looking for it?
    3. On Mint 11, it is necessary to drag the icon across the entire
    screen to set the home page, unlike in Mint 10. Can you revert
    back to having the “house” icon just to the left of the URL in
    Mint 12?

  124. Remember, folks: Distrowatch is only one source. It does not know absolute numbers. Distrowatch saying Mint is #1 is like Distrowatch saying Linux is more popular than Windows: It all depends on who you ask!

  125. @Clem
    You can remove that top panel. If it comes down to it just patch Gnome Shell to allow it’s removal. I myself won’t use it until it’s comparable to Mint 11 in terms of polish and performance.

  126. Ubuntu doesn’t see the problem and made it even worse, and Mint saw the problem and deviced a wonderful solution.

  127. Guy,

    To set the record perfectly straight, I never said I was a fan of Gnome 3. In fact, I am still on Mint 9 and cruising right along. I completely understand why people want to stay with Gnome 2. It’s like you said, it’s tried and true. But it wasn’t always that way, lest we forget. Gnome 3 has some time to mature, and believe me, I won’t be switching until the dust settles completely. Even then, if my Mint 9 PC is still LTS, then there is no earthly reason for me to change. But I also understand the position that the Mint team is in, moving forward. They aren’t forcing Gnome 3 down my throat for sure. If you don’t like the path that Mint is headed down, fine. And yes you have the right to complain about it. But to totally discredit the team for the reasons I pointed out in a previous post is unfair to say the least, not to mention so far from the truth.

  128. Peter

    The Home button repositioning is a function of a later version of Firefox. You can easily change that by right-clicking on the current position of the Home button, and scrolling down to Customize. That will unlock the Home button, and you can move it any where along the bar that you want. You can also add and take away icons from the cabinet that pops up. I think that answers your question.

  129. @ Clem: Hi! Great Work (as usual…lol) looking forward to checking out the RC! Just one question…though i always preferred having just a bottom panel as you have always had in mint, it sounds like from what you are saying, that with Gnome 3 the top panel is necessary…and will be needed in MGSE…

    I’ve been running on Ubuntu 11.10 for a while and got “use” to the top panel…so just to clarify…are you saying that we will be able to easily take off the bottom panel and move the window switching and “slab menu” up to the top? I think i’d like mine that way…rather then the 2 (old ubuntu) style panels…

    Will we be able to do that from the settings?
    Thanks in advance for your input on this…

  130. Please please allow me to manage my desktops in a grid instead of having them in a vertical, automatic tile. I’m a developer and have several windows open at once and I want them to stay where I put them. Closing the last window on the top desktop then requires me to reshuffle all my windows, total pain.

    Also the new model is just flat out inconsistent with multi-head even if you turn off having only one primary desktop.

    Other than that I actually *like* gnome3.

    One last thing that should probably be borrowed from Unity, fullscreen windows take up way less space in Unity. That is awesome and hard to give up (unlike the rest of unity which is easy to give up). I’m not a fan of the mac style app menu but why not do something like that just for maximized windows?

  131. Gnome shell takes some getting used to, but it is sooooo much better than unity. That is where Mint always comes on top-they take the steps to make our linux experiment really better, not just shove some new face on an old idea. Love it. Always have. Always will, too.

  132. Thanks for work! My contribution will be sure. I hope it will be better than 11, As for UNITY — NO THANK YOU!. Ubuntu released 2 great OSs 10.04 and 10.10…11.04 was the greatest sh**t I have seen in a long time, and 11.10 well no thanks!

    As the other guy said “I feel like going back to Windows 7” – getting tired struggling with LINUX. So I put my hope in a really smooth working LM12!!!

  133. Another item on my wishlist for Mint 12 is compatibility with the IronKey USB device. I store all my files on my IronKey USB, but cannot access them either on Mint 10 or 11, but I can on Debian, which is the parent distro. IronKey is used in a lot of military, industrial, and medical applications due to security, encryption, and lasts 10 times longer than most cheap USBs which use “multi-level cell” rather than the more expensive “single-level cell” storage.

    Thanks Clem and all the developers for the world’s best OS!

  134. Looks great! I have been running Mint Debian for a while now and doubted I was ever going back to a Ubuntu base, but now I’m really excited to try this out. Thanks to everyone involved!

  135. @ Clem
    Will it still be possible for the user to add extra panels to the desktop in MGSE? I have placed a panel on the left side of my screen that I use to ‘quick launch’ my most used programs, and would like to retain the possibility in future editions.
    Also, is MGSE theme-able like Gnome 2.32? Will we have the ability to change the colors of the menu and panels, as well as the icon themes and window appearance? I currently use the Gion icon pack, and would hate to lose that appearance.

    BTW – Thanks for the best Linux distro ever. I have been suggesting it to friends since Mint 4 Daryna.

  136. Hi Clement,

    As Gnome2 is no longer supported, MATE looks like a gamble. By trying to please the universe, doing both MATE and MGSE you may end up in a black hole where the quality of both will suffer. Think about this, what if you cannot keep up with support? Then LM might be the next subject of joke in the GUI world. A kind of “screw up” in the opposite direction of Ubuntu.

    Just concentrate on MGSE, warn users that LM12 might be unstable. Use LM12 as buffer to fine tune MGSE to prepare the road for LM13.

    Bonne chance mon ami.

  137. The only thing i can think of that yu haven’t already done is CHNAGE THAT THEME. the title bars are about as big as the Win7 taskbar for friggin sake

  138. awesome!!! (but still no wobbly windows, or cubes, or free the fish, or watter effects, or my favorite gnome-panel applets) but still pretty awesome.

  139. Very nice! I like greatly what all you have done here.

    Acouple of things:
    Have you considered talking MATE into moving to XCB from Xlibs?
    Is GNOME considering Wayland in place of X?
    Have you considered implementing the Zen Kernel mod (a kernel mod designed to tune the Linux kernel to work better on desktops)?
    Have you considered replacing SEL with GRSecurity?
    What are the chances of Mint moving-to BTrFS in the future?

    I’ve been a Mint user since Isadora, and Julia is perfect for me right now (Compiz is buggy in Katya, though I did love the software-centre in Julia), and after trying many other distros for a time (Fedora, SimplyMepis, OpenSuSE, Ubuntu, Debian (which I like, but 6’s kernel is too old to work well with all of my hardware, and Kernel.org’s recent hacking has made it more or less impossible to compile a custom kernel), and Jolicloud), I have to say that Mint is the best; it is highly polished AND highly configureable. Even better: it just WORKS.

    Lastly, I would like to say that the reason Mint is the best is because it is made selflessly for other people, not for its creator’s ego, money, and/or some other thing.

    Keep doing your thing — and stay MINTY. 🙂

  140. Bah, typos in my last one, and and erroneous early enter.
    My apologies; I’m breaking-in a new keyboard.

    Corrections:
    “Acouple of things” to “A couple of things”
    “though I did love the software-centre in Julia” to “though I did like the software-centre in Katya”
    “Even better: it just WORKS” to “The best part? It just WORKS”

    Stay Minty. 🙂

  141. 😐 Don’t really care about most of that post. Have to be honest, I’ve been mostly using LMDE and feel that is a clear direction Mint should head: Rolling release, clean fast desktop minus the cruft. Just get a few more killer apps in the software manager: Urban Terror, Dolphin Wii Emulator, etc.. and it would be the best OS in existence RIGHT NOW.

    Don’t get me wrong, I get what you’re doing with the gnome 3 vs 2 vs Mate, but for me (and Linus Torvalds, and many others) XFCE is “nearly good enough” and much cleaner/faster/simpler than those other bloatware things. Most end users don’t really care either. They just want Libre Office to import their XLS a little better from MS Office.

    Finally, I’d like a little better glue in the LMDE xfce release. Right clicking on pictures to make them the wall paper, right clicking on downloads in firefox to open the downloads location, that kind of stuff.

    Fix all that and make it a little prettier and just bypass all this gnome 3 bloat altogether. Mint is good enough on it’s own now. Cut the cord and forget about Ubuntu and all the other failed distros that came before.

  142. Not sure if I like the dark grey color of the bottom panel or launcher. Keep those colors exactly the same as the top panel (lighter grey), would be nicer and more consistent in look. But so far not bad.

  143. Sounds Good for me.

    I am one of was disappointed with Gnome-shell and Unity.
    Ubuntu start Unity because the unfriendly for comments that was Gnome people behind Gnome-shell.
    But, in a positive way I try to be hear in the dev-gnome-list.
    But ….
    Some days ago I was in Latinoware Conference in Foz do Iguaçu/Brazil,
    and talk with an Gnome3 Design Contributor.
    He talk about some questions about G3 release, and that are many things that are being corrected.
    I became more happy to see that some points that I did are being in work. Like keyboard config and system configuration.

    But, theres many caveats in interface, that make g3-shell unproductive to me I told.
    He explain, that its possible to change everything using extensions,
    perhaps they hope that the people will use/enjoy the default feeling. (not me)

    After this post, me wishes became true.

    Congratulations! Glen and Mint Team.

    Glen, I would like to help, to adjust a small Linux Mint Install caveat.

    When I install Ubuntu and choose Brazil, Ubuntu choose the default mirror for Brazil. But, Mint does not do the same for ubuntu packages,
    Its very important because local mirror is much more fast than default.

    Thanks.

  144. Thanks for the update!! you guys have done what ubuntu and the others couldn’t and that is forethought! you listened and you made small compromises to the current fashions of the other OS’s and you have come up with a solution that looks to be far better than anything I’ve seen so far, I came to Mint from ubuntu because I have a physical disability and unity is very hard for me to use.. Anyway great work to the whole team and watch out ubuntu, you have been bested by Linux Mint!!!!

  145. Clem, you are fast becoming my hero! What a breath of fresh air to see that you, unlike other unnamed distros, actually listen to those who use your OS. I think my biggest problem is going to be choosing between MGSE and MATE.

  146. Wow, looking at the screenshot, Linux Mint will definitely be the best desktop of all releases of new linux distros.

    Seeing this post really shows that Linux Mint is a community distro that thinks about its users and knows what they expect from their operating systems.

    Ubuntu,fedora,openSUSE etc haven’t got a chance against Linux Mint now.

    **If your looking for someone else to help with testing, let me know on forum, would love to help out**

  147. I agree with the philosophy behind your decision, and look foward to seeing LM 12. Fortunately, the community has worked around the Canonical-Gnome redesign issues, and continues to provide extensions that help make the transition easier for desktop users. Thanks for your work and the update.

    Just as a point of interest, XFCE provides an applet (or whatever is is) that allows many Gnome 2 applets to run on the XFCE panel. Are there technical issues that make this impossible to implement on the Gnome 3 panel?

    I do think that it is the lack of workable replacements for the applets (window list, workspaces, main menu, and so on) that users have come to rely upon for productivity rather than a complete rejection of new Canonical/Gnome technology that is the main cause of the discontent.

  148. I have been using Linux for 7 years now. The last four years have been mainly Linux Mint. I am not a fan of Gnome 3 at all because it is not as usable as Gnome 2. At first I told myself that I only needed to become accustomed to it but after working with it for some time, I still hate it and see it as a step in the wrong direction even if it does bring new technology to the table. The main thing wrong with it is that people who are converting from Windows do not find it as intuitive and easy to pick up as Gnome 2. I hope MSGE or Mate will be able to fill the void left by removing Gnome 2. If not, Microsoft has a great OS called Seven that is finally a suitable Windows alternative to Linux. Saying that makes me feel sick inside but it is true. Ever since Windows 7 was released, I have had no problems with it. It is the first edition of Windows that I have been able to keep problem free for two years with no reinstalls, and that is with no antivirus or antispyware installed. When I left XP for Linux I did so for stability and ease of use. With Gnome 2 being replaced, Linux no longer beats Windows for ease of use and now that Windows is stable there is no more need for Linux unless someone simply can not afford to purchase Windows. All that being said, I still intend to use Linux as long as it stays functional the way I like it. If it takes too long to do normal tasks, I will be off to Windows-only land until the Linux developers come up with a desktop environment that is as functional as Windows.

  149. I certainly hope Mint’s Lisa will be more successful than Apple’s was!

    Seriously, though, I’m looking forward to trying it out (I’m pretty happy with Mint 11). For the record, I like a single top panel with global application menus enabled — it really saves space on a small monitor. That’s one thing I do like about Unity: when a window is maximized, both the menus and the title bar get integrated into the top panel, maximizing the vertical workplace on a small monitor.

  150. 1- Well I don`t like the UGLY BLACK Mint Menu in Shell. It looks terrible! Is this because of GNOME Shell native theming? PLEASE MAKE IT clear.
    2-Please remove the top panel

  151. I am currently running a new P67 SandyBridge processor and had issues with the current Mint11 bootloader because of UEFI. I have installed Ubuntu 11.10 pain free and am assuming Mint 12 will be smooth sailing also. /me crosses fingers that it installs cleanly onto a P67 Mobo. Look forward to 12!

  152. I love Linux Mint, more than ever before.
    LinuxMint is the best thing that happened to Linux !!

    People take your time, but don’t compromise on Quality.
    We use it on our work machines, so take your time but come up only when 200 % ready.

    Please, let the RC run for a while may be 20 days just to catch up every problem that may come by.

    Thanks for every little bit you guys do.

  153. Thank You, Linux Mint Team, for always caring and giving us the best possible options in these times of shift!

  154. That desktop looks fantastic. I hope you provide a mint branded tool to customise the look and feel of the desktop. I would like to remove the bottom bar and replace it with docky. Hope that can be easily done. I am a complete newbie to gnome 3.

  155. Reading this post, I have so many mixed feelings. I think Clem and the team are doing the absolute best, wonderful job possible, and I love everything they’ve done with Mint, and can appreciate the challenges they must charge into in the future. The rest of this is in no way a reflection on the awesome job the Mint team has done, and continues to do!

    That said this post is so depressing to me, because it marks the “official” end of Gnome 2 (my favorite desktop) in Mint (my favorite distro).

    I will, of course, check out Mint 12, but I have that sinking feeling that my hopes have been dashed, and I’ll be forced back to Mint 10 for the foreseeable future.

    Even with all these really nice changes to Gnome 3 demonstrated in this post, it’s still limited by being GnomeS hell 3. It’s still going to lack needed flexibility and customization that we enjoyed with Gnome 2. It’ll still completely destroy my workflow (which I refuse to change to appease Gnome’s one-way-fits all mentality). Plus I’ve gotta have my Compiz!!!!

    Mate being too rough around the edges may or may not fit my needs if not everything I need works on it, and I’m still not convinced it’ll be around long enough for the bugs to be worked out.

    LMDE has way too many gaping holes in it to be usable, and will be on Gnome 3 soon, too.

    Mint 11 is unstable on my hardware, even after months of whittling away at one problem after another.

    XFCE and other non-Gnome/KDE desktops aren’t functional and flexible enough yet.

    KDE is nice, but slow as molasses.

    If the situation doesn’t improve by the time Mint 10 loses its support, I don’t know what I’ll do. I was honestly hoping beyond hope that there was some magical way that Gnome 3’s fallback mode could be torn apart and reformed into a more modern Gnome 2. Why the idiots at Gnome decided to throw us into this unnecessary hell is beyond me. They really could have (should have) rebuilt Gnome 2 (to make it more managable to maintain), THEN added ****OPTIONS**** to do what it does now. In addition to what it has always been able to do.

    So, if I can’t get things to a usable point by the time Mint 10 ends support, does anyone know of a good, really user-friendly distro (on par with Mint) that will continue to use Gnome 2 going on into the future, while keeping all other software up to date?

    Sad, sad day for Linux Mint (at least for me).

  156. You’re about to have one more Linux Mint user. The only place I’ve upgraded to Ubuntu to 11.10 is my netbook and switched from Unity to gnome 3. On the netbook it is ok since I use my netbook differently. But I have yet to upgrade my computer at work from Ubuntu 10.10 because I didn’t want to spend 3 days cursing at unity/gnome 3. So Mint it will be!

  157. It’s nice, and is no surprise, to see Linux Mint hearing the needs and concerns of it’s user base – something that can and should be taken on board by other Linux distro’s (mentioning no names)…

    I don’t like top and bottom panels but realise the top is Gnome 3 and maybe not much can be done about that for the time being. That app menu is kinda sexy though!

    Can’t wait to try the RC and hope the LMDE version looks as good – I wonder if Debian will become the default base for Linux Mint in the future, considering how unstable Ubuntu’s decision making is becoming?

    Keep up the good work 🙂

  158. Clem, you should release LMDE Lisa
    There must be something in the name
    Whether its Mona Lisa, Apple’s Lisa or Mint Lisa something magic happens

    There must be something in the name
    So I must rename my wife or search for a new one codename Lisa?

  159. Spot on.

    I moved to Ubuntu beginning of the year and I went through upgrades from 10.04 to 10.10 and to 11.04.
    Not impressed at all with Unity. Some might like it but as far as I am concerned, beside the fact that it stuffed up my system at both upgrades, it is very unfriendly.

    Moved to Linux MDE Xfce as for me the Unity type of interface is better fitted for tablets or mobile type of environment.

    So far, very impressed with Linux Mint. Keep up the good work…

  160. There’s a reason you’ve seen a 40% jump. People like me are jumping ship from Ubuntu and were looking for something more familiar and less restrictive. Mint really got things right.

  161. Clem and crew, you guys are the best. You nailed all the problems in Gnome 3 and I am really looking forward to what you guys come up with to make it usable like it’s supposed to be. Also glad to see the MATE project is going.

    I tried Unity both as Ubunutu USB boot and the Unity UI in the Mint repository for a while. What a disaster. No wonder Ubuntu users are jumping ship. You can’t *do* anything with it. I don’t ask for much – I like Mint because it’s simple to use – but Unity is unusable, even for the average user.

    I also tried Gnome 3 Fedora booting from a USB. Horrible. Mostly because it was so heartbreaking. What a gorgeous, slick UI… totally ruined by its complete lack of usability and customization. You can’t even shut off your computer. What were they thinking?

    I have no doubt you guys will take this bitter-sweet pill dividing the Linux community and turn it into what it should be. That’s why I jumped the Ubuntu ship 2 years ago, and have used Mint ever since.

    Great job, guys. Really looking forward to Mint 12!

  162. gnome 2 or 3, all i want is to be able to change colors and install themes; for some reason appearance preferences from gnome 2 is gone in gnome 3 and everything looks so ugly, oh so horrible; gnome color choose doesn’t help either and everybody tells you to use it!
    don’t you guys get annoyed by that white bacgkround that reminds you of windows?
    hopefully we’ll still have that option in mint 12.

  163. Linux mint is moving in a wrong direction…. My Laptop is a smart phone or what ? Both Unity & Gnome 3 is a crap…. I will switch my laptop os CENTOS 6 (which has a support for Gnome 2 for next 7 years)…. Thanks !

  164. Great news.
    I would like to say it shortly.
    MGSE sound exactly what most me and my friends will like.

    What we want is old style mint with new engine under the hood, and if i understand correctly, MGSE will exactly be that one, better looking GNOME 3 acting similar to gnome 2. THANK U! (^_^)

  165. Personally I do not think Mate is the way forward. The Mint team should make the best choice available to them and put most of their resources into that rather than split limited resource.

    If Gnome3 is deemed to be the way to go then put all the required into this and make it work, with MGSE customisations if required.

    Be bold, take a stand and stop sitting on the fence. We know enough about the current DE’s to make an informed decision. Unity seems hamstrung in terms of scope and customisation, Gnome 2 is dead (like it or lump it), which leaves Gnome 3 or a move to less favoured (by Mint) DE such as KDE or XFCE.

  166. Hi, thank you for trying to bring the best desktop to Mint, but I am a KDE fan, and I think it is very very good option, why don’t you make “KDE the default desktop for Linux Mint”?? If you say it is resource hungry I say not anymore when you compare it with Gnome 3, and it even have “Low Fat” settings package, you can make the (low fat) mode the default when the RAM is less than 1 GiB.

  167. mint, you rock. honestly my only gripe about mint is that it killed my distro-hopping as soon as i touched mint 7.

    the newest fedora is supposed to also have some good gnome tweaks included (such as slow, but functional gnome3 compositing without 3-d compatable hardware), i hope the mint team keeps an eye on their improvements and is quick to adopt any relevant ones. soon you will be the best gnome 3 distro without question and im sure it will improve popularity by another 40%.

  168. I hated original Gnome 2 for its 2 panels at up and down of desktop. Due to I prefered Kde. So when I migrated to Linux Mint 11 Gnome I was very pleased to have Gnome with only one bottom panel like Kde.

    This time when I see screenshot of prepared MGSE I am sad. According me it is step back. I thing, it is only corrupt Gnome 3 philosophy. Another panel decreases desktop free working space.
    For this approach there is prepared MATE.

  169. I was damn SURE that my beloved linux Mint team would have given us a smart solution for a harmless, progressive, conscious and considered switch from the gnome 2 desktop experience to new technologies.

    Thanks.
    Can’t wait for Lisa.

  170. I’ve been toying with all kinds of Linux distros since 2003 but unfortunately none of them answered my needs. Being a freelancer I have no time to fine-tune my OS, I just need it working out-of-the-box and not crashing every time I do something without much thinking (which often happens when one’s dead tired). Linux Mint is the only distro that lets me work and, at the same time, study and tune my OS without sacrificing job productivity. This OS doesn’t make you pointlessly click everywhere looking for some obvious things that ‘were there before’, it doesn’t ‘think for you because we know what is better’ the way Ubuntu/Unity does, it simply WORKS and works well.

    Thank you Clem and the team for the job you’ve been doing and for that real USERfriendly approach that makes Linux experience fun and pleasure for literally EVERYONE.

    Looking forward to trying LM 12! It sounds really really exciting!

  171. Looks AWESOME!!
    can’t wait for it.
    Amazing job guys! Seems like you are the only ones who are listening to what users want.

  172. Thanks Clem for your post and asking for comments, reactions and our input. I know that you are thinking of users and the focus is on going forward.
    I use Mint. I have my mother and a neighbor using Mint. I know the team is thinking beyond “Lisa” and what comes next with Gnome 3 for these exact type of users. The correct decision was made moving forward with this environment as one day Gnome 3 will be more elegant and stable. Using Gnome Shell Extensions is the best answer for Mint.
    Gnome will survive. Hardware and application compatibility are so important to a great user experience. Staying with, and making Gnome better, will benefit your community of Linux Mint users the most. Thank you for seeing that.

  173. Hi Clem and the crew!
    I joined the Mint Community 5 years ago when I decided that I want to get that other system out of my life. However, I started to get interested in Linux in 2001. To make a long story short, after trying several Distros, I came across Mint and that was it. It was more an intuition then knowledge but I picked a winner and I wish I would use Mint till the end. Yes, I am not thrilled about top panel or Gnome 3 – I was always saying: if it’s not broken – don’t fix it. On the other hand, I like to try things and change things and see how something works and does in another environment or situation, so I like innovation but I would like to know that I can get back to what I am used to, also. So, as long as Mint has this great attitude, it will be my honor to use it as my default, main and only Distro. Thank you!

  174. I just want to encourage the KDE‑LMDE guys and girls to keep working on their project. For now I will have to install the new OpenSuse – but I’ll definitely give LMDE with KDE a try. So take the time you need to make it a really great distribution.
    Looking forward,
    xvlc

  175. I just read this bit of nutty and that’s pretty much it for me. I’m through worrying about the future direction of Gnome/Ubuntu and trying to figure out how to make it work. It’s like a bad marriage. I can just throw XFCE on top on LM and move on. Truely, the developer-user war has gone on way too long and has become too bizarre. Goodbye Gnome. Goodbye Ubuntu. Good, but not quite that special. We are done.

    http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.desktop/45537/focus=45548

  176. Thanks to all for this update. I use Ubuntu Lucid 10.04 LTS on my work pc’s right now and was very worryed about the Unity thing that Ubuntu has “I hate the damn thing” And was looking to Mint for the next LTS upgrade and I thing I will go for it. I have also been looking at LMDE to and I think I’ll use it for my home use. You all have come a long way from your humble beginnings and your work is spot on THANKS for choice and all your hard work. “wish UBUNTU would take some lessens from MINT on listing to its user base”

  177. Woot! November 11 (tentative) RC release date? November 13 is my birthday and Linux Mint 12 (even if RC) will be the perfect gift for me! Thank you and very much looking forward for my birthday gift X3b

  178. Hi Clem,
    I’m one of the “Unity disgusted” people who migrated to LinuxMint 11 with GREAT satisfaction! It’s exactly what I expected and your approach to Gnome 3 is quite reasonable.
    Thanks to all LinuxMint team for your effort.

  179. If Gnome 3 with MGSE looks and acts like Gnome 2 why do we need Mate?
    The second question is: will be Mint 12 based on Ubuntu or Debian or …?

  180. Good news and good approach (but knowing Mint for long it’s not a surprise), the only point in the post is the confusion between “gnome 3” and “gnome shell”. Clem uses always “gnome 3” when sometime he speaks about “gnome shell” it’s confusing. Am I the only one in trouble with this mix ?

  181. This sounds awesome. I’m not entirely happy with LMDE. I ran it with the default Gnome 2 for a few days before installing KDE on it and that’s what I’m running now. I also found my self installing some things from source. I have been running Mint 9 since the day that was released and 7 before it. Its seems silly but I’d like to see some more nice wallpapers that look similar to whats in Win 7. In any case awesome work and I’m stoked for Mint 12

  182. Thanks so much to the whole Mint crew for this great distro. Mint 11 here, on a 1024×600 netbook. I use NO Gnome-panels (went through a lot of searching to figure out how to delete the last one), with AWN autohiding at the bottom of the screen. Will I be able to run Lisa/Gnome3 this way? If I can’t get rid of that top panel, it will be a significant annoyance for me.

    Unrelated question that I just have to ask… As I’m typing here I see, way down in the very lower left corner of the page, a teensy little smiley face that I never noticed before. What’s the deal with that? 🙂

  183. In the Open source world, the code is available to all surely? So why doesn’t a group of developers take the Gnome 2 code, rename it Open Market, and then keep it in development, so all upgrades with be Open Market upgrades, and will no longer need any support from Gnome 2. The Linux World, not only Mint, is crying out for this.

    The Mate team appear to still want to use Gnome upgrades, which will make for problems later. Better to cut out Gnome altogether, and embark on a new adventure.

    People who use computers everyday know what they need. Clem listens to his users, but he and the Mint team have a whole distro to care for, rather than just a Desktop. An Open Market desktop would be a contender for use on all Linux desktops and the Linux World needs a new Desktop team to develop one.

    If Gnome leaders take the wrong path, do we all need to follow them slavishly?

    And just to say, Mint is still my Favourite Distro, whatever happens with Gnome.

  184. @Clem
    Will it be possible to put the top gnome panel to the bottom?
    Can’t find a way to do it in gnome 3.

    @Guy
    Dude.. Just get over it!!!
    It’s not Mints decission to leave Gnome 2 behind. Gnome is now on version 3 and version 2 will be discontinued.
    It’s the same think that happend to KDE. When KDE 4 was released, everyone was hating it, it was a crap and unstable.
    KDE 3.5 is no longer supported, but have a look now at KDE4.
    if you have an modern PC, it will run KDE4 just fine and nobody is missing KDE 3.5
    The same think will happen to Gnome 3.
    Wait a few months untils it gets more stable.
    Mint is offering you an great solution by including MATE and giving you the choice to use both of them.
    They just could stick to Gnome 3 and leave you with no option at all than using another distro or sticking with and old Mint.
    Sometimes people just have to innovate or die.
    Once again, get over it and say thanks to Mint to give you an alternative like Mate.

    @mint dev team
    Great job!
    Keep up the good work and how you approach to the community!

  185. Thanks for the update,
    this make me so relieved.
    I did not expect to see “NEW” thing.

    Gnome devILs should learn from you guys.
    They are stubborn SOAB and a PITA.
    Make fool of users.

  186. The Linux world never been easy, we love to complicate things that were working right at one point. As a happy KDE user I admire the work Clem and team is doing to deliver the best possible Gnome solution to my Mint’s Gnome friends. Hope you guys enjoy the innovations that are waiting for you in LM12, I’m confident every one of you will be delighted. Clem and team, you guys deserve a nice vacation once LM12 is released and working to expectations.

    Linux Mint really Rocks!

  187. I´m one of the people who switched from Ubuntu to Mint when unity was inflicted upon me. I never did receive a sensible answer as to why the GUI had to be changed when I was still doing the same tasks, word processing, emails, web browsing, that I have been doing for 20 years. It seemed like change for the sake of fashion, with users being ignored.

    MGSE looks like it may meet my needs, but I tend to run older cheaper hardware, usually using only the video capabilities of the motherboard, so I worry as to whether I will be able to run MGSE.

    If my cheaper hardware does mean I have to run MATE I worry about the listed issues and continued support.

    I suppose I will give it a go first and worry about the problems if they arise. One thing I do know is that I won´t be going back to Ubuntu. I´m glad that Mint is actually listening to users and trying to meet our requirements.

  188. Gonna be using MATE while in the same time exploring MGSE. Who know I’ll love MGSE and use it regularly, phasing out my Gnome 2.x in the future

  189. Thanks for informations. This preview looking good, can’t wait for final release. Not quite sure if Gnome 3 or 2 would be better, first we all have to try it and give our opinion.
    Cheers

  190. What about the “Power off” button?
    Is there an extension to make it visible by default, without having to push “Alt”? (I know there’s an extension for GNOME 3.0, but it doesn’t work with the new session menu in GNOME 3.2.)

  191. Great work as usual.
    it would be nice to get out MGSE packages for debian and fedora gnome3, which bury that s***: Unity.

  192. Linux Mint, wants the people to have an easy to use experience. Thanks a lot for taking time to show us a preview of it!

  193. Thank you Clem for this very optimistic post.

    For a very long time I was using FreeBSD with KDE 3.X.Y. Then various things ceased working on my machine and there was no hope that FreeBSD team would correct those in foreseeable future. It was really great system, but when installer for a new version of system bombs on your motherboard / hardware for several versions and when things like Flash stop working or get too obsolete on a system that still works you do not really have a choice.

    So I went looking for an alternative and I discovered Mint Linux Bianca. That was *THE* perfect Linux distro for me at the time. It provided me with a desktop configured just the way I like it with absolute minimum of tweaking necessary. I have been with you ever since. I have even persuaded some people to start using Linux thanks to Mint. I have also contribured quite a few man-hours by translating the system to Slovak language.

    I am extremely happy that you will provide us with up-to-date system (Gnome 3 (sigh …)) with the option to use user interface we want – taskbar with windows at the bottom, “Start” menu. I can’t imagine installing system with Unity or Gnome 3 shell for some users I support. I understand that the new user interface paradigm is supposed to be better but try to explain that to people (70+ years old) that had enough problems migrating from a virus / crapware / mallware infested Windows XP to previous versions of Mint Linux.

    What makes me even more happy is your announcement regarding search engines. I am so glad you are listening to your user base.

    I do not have PayPal. I do not even have Credit Card. I think there are many such Mint Linux users here (in former Socialistic countries), because you do not need CC here. Is there some other option of supporting you from Slovakia / Czech republic?

  194. This is my forth post and hopefully the last, as I’m sure your tired of hearing the same thing. To everybody who doubts the wisdom of the direction that Mint is headed in reference to Gnome, nobody really knows how this is going to turn out. But it will be a positive experience almost assuredly–with or without Gnome, and with or without Mint’s current user base. And to those who are downright irate at the Mint team for taking the “low road,” I dare you to find any other distro who is doing what Mint is doing in order to make everybody happy. Guy brought Fedora up as a perfect example of the problems with Gnome 3, so users are sticking with Fedora 14. What is Fedora doing to make their loyal users happy? Not even half of what Mint is doing. In fact, it’s really to a fault that Mint is doing everything they can to quiet the masses. In other words, the real argument is whether or not Mint is moving forward fast enough. Many posters have alluded to this by suggesting that the Mint resources are being stretched unnecessarily because of the Mate and MGSE project. Perhaps. But one thing is for certain, Clem has explained very clearly the position he and his team are in, and he has explained exactly what they are doing to address the matter. What more do you want? No other distro is doing what Mint is doing right now to achieve the IMPOSSIBLE, and that is to make EVERYBODY happy. Okay, I’m done–I think.

  195. Thanks again Clem and all the crew for both their openness and their hard hard work !
    Things are getting increasingly complicated (as more choices) but no complaints from me though…

    I’m running Mint10 and will until most probably
    1) the release of the Mint Edition based on the next LTS Ubuntu. (it gives more time to polish Gnome3 and Mate…)
    Or
    2) LMDE with hardware detection and installation (port of jockey-gtk)
    or
    3) Linux mint 12 being awesome (i will test on virtualbox).
    if everything fails
    4) Archbang (i would like to avoid spending hours to tweaks config files)…

  196. I always say that Linux Mint is more concerned about the Ubuntu user, and with this news, Clem has confirmed my words.

    MGSE is beautiful, elegant, and definitely spectacular. Now, I have a doubt. I am not a programmer and therefore do not understand to what level of difficulty could get what they propose.

    Can not make Gnome-Fallback and modify it to add the necessary elements and make it equal to Gnome2?

    Then, once-Fallback is removed Gnome, Linux Mint could continue to maintain and do not cause errors Gnome3 dependence, since it is built on the same technology.

    Great job Clem! Thanks to you and all the developers of Linux Mint to make a distribution designed for the user.

  197. wooow.. what a relief. I tried to force myself on unity, but it just doesnt let me custom the way i want my OS to work. If i dont have that possibility then my productivity doesnt get higher. Linux Mint 12 was my first version after using Ubuntu 8.04, 8.10, 9.04, 9.10, 10.04, 10.10.. Im glad you guys also think about what the “old” user want and not because you have the power and then abuse it.

    As a Linux advocate Ubuntu lost my support. If i help people get over to use Linux, its not gonna be Ubuntu anymore. Again THANK YOU!!

  198. “It won’t only be down to donations and sponsorships anymore, your activity on the web, every search query you make and product you buy will help fund our project.”

    This is the scariest thing i have ever heard in my entire life. Are we talking about big brother situation. Data tracking? how is this implemented. I am really worried about privacy issues.

    I really appreciate what you guys do. I love linuxmint. But the above disclosure freaks me out.

  199. 11th of November for the RC release? Same as Skyrim. New mint and Skyrim on the same day, which to play with! Going to need another me so I can do both at the same time 🙂

  200. Are we still gonna be able to change the windows’ background color and install new themes in MGSE like we are able now in gnome 2? i just can’t take that white background at all.

  201. I think this is fantastic! Of course, as conservative as we are, I would still like to put the notifications in the bottom panel and remove the top one ;-). It would be a fantastic way to keep the current interface for traditional people (mommy, daddy, etc, and me), and still have the new functionalities available through a keyboard shourtcut. I think this the way, by providing all functionality of the new and old desktops together, that Mint will find the way to the perfect environment. Fantastic, keep on!

    Great work! I’ve been a Ubuntu user for long time now, but my next upgrade will most likely be to the next LTS Mint.

  202. one small thing. I’m using lenovo laptop with nvidia 7300go videocard. it has a huge bug with proprietary drivers which causes desktop to completely freeze when compiz or any compoziting manager is enabled. so that means i will not be able to use mint with gnome 3 and i really don’t like using lame fallback modes…

  203. hi friends…
    i am a sincere follower of linux mint but had issues with linux mint 11 relating to wireless internet which is absolutely slow on my system. in fact i had to offload and go back to mint 10 after having haviing tried each and every solution provided by various people on seveal forums.

    kindly inform if there is any improvement on this front.

    regards

  204. Looking forward to it!!! It takes work like you guys are doing to explore the possibilities with Gnome 3 and make it better. I was a long time Red Hat user, then Fedora, then Ubuntu. Now I’m looking for something new again. Mint may be it!

  205. “Yaaay lets increase hardware requirements with the new DE! Everyone does it, we should do it too!” >.<

    Thx, but no thx…

  206. thanks for the update , will be first to test your Linux Mint 12, can’t wait looking forward to it. thanks for all your efforts

  207. Oh wow, I can’t wait for the RC. Mint has always been my favorite distro, and this looks no less promising than previous releases. Thumbs up to the Mint Team! You guys truly deserve our support with all your hard work to meet everybody’s needs. I’m ridiculously excited to meet Lisa haha. I wish you guys luck on overtaking Ubuntu, Linux should be about the community, like you guys are doing.

  208. I eagerly await linux mint 12. I used 9 (shortly, with networking problems), 10 for quite some time and now writing this post on 11 (again, with problems with metacity vs. compiz). For what I read, 12 will be great. I don’t consider gnome 2.32 good. In fact, I don’t like it. Yes, probably because I couldn’t tame it based on my little knowledge. All I want is predictability and the chance to figure out and solve my own problems by myself, without relying on forums or anybody else’s time. Every new release of Linux Mint have been better than the previous, and I’m confident this will not be the exception. Keep up the good job!!!!

  209. I am writing my reply feeling sad. I have been an exclusive Mint user since 6 and have enjoyed each new release, till 10. Mint 11crashes on two difference brands of computers. I am forced to run 9 one one and spend hours of tweaking. I feel that Clem has lost his center, catering to being flashy and offering “bells & Whistles”, over functionality. Last week I left Mint to use a different Distro (Zorin) that caters to being useful right out of the box. Now my two computers (one purchased new in 2006 and one purchased new a few months ago), have the same OS. Sadly, I have left Mint. I will forever be grateful to Clem and Shuttleworth for getting off of Windows and onto Linux. I just want my computer to work and work effortlessly. Jack SK.

  210. interesting to see how it pans out.
    I have converted this week to mint 11 due to the lack of program
    alteration in gnome 3 (mainly start up programs ) the control options are poor.
    gnome 3 is good , visually and usability.
    i just hope you allow users to alter the way YOU want the pc to run
    not the PC tell you what you cannot do.

    We will see

  211. Thank goodness for some sanity. There is a big difference between workstations and mobile devices. Workstations are data producers. Mobiles are data consumers. Workstations have a keyboard attached. Mobiles do not.

    Workstation are used to produce data. They need a keyboard to do this. That’s because nothing beats a keyboard when it comes to data entry, not gestures, not voice. Keyboards are the fastest, most-reliable way to enter data. For the foreseeable future, workstations will always have a keyboard attached. Because of this, any UI that require the operators to remove their hands from the keyboard will be disliked by them. Any UI that requires them to move back and fore between the keyboard and mouse will be hated. GNOME 3 and Unity are not the answer. A separate UI for workstations and mobiles are needed.

  212. BTW in support of the stated popularity claims Distrowatch last 7 days Mint 3705 hpd, Ubuntu 2038. Also Mint is ahead last 6 months average.

  213. That sounds great, really great for me, Linux Mint has become my main linux distribution since a year, well donde team, i´ll can´t wait to see the new realase

  214. I support the direction Mint has taken for Mint 12. Moving forward Mint 12 (11.10) and Mint Debian Gnome (Testing/Wheezy) will require the development effort Clem has described as the base has changed.

    Will the focus on KDE versions in December delay Mint 12 features on Mint Debian Gnome?

    May I suggest a LMDE variant based on Squeeze (or Mint 9 – 10.4 LTS) as a possible way for those who wish to stay with Gnome 2?

    Most of the structure for these is already in place. Bodhi Linux use 10.4 LTS to allow them to focus development effort on the lightweight Enlightenment window manager. Enlightenment is great on older hardware by the way.

  215. Realmente ustedes si piensan y saben lo que el usuario final está buscando, se enfocan en su cliente, tal como lo indican las normas internacionales de calidad.

    Uso linux mint desde hace 2 años, es una distribución magnifica, la he instalado en muchos equipos y funciona perfectamente. Es la mejor distribución de Linux

    Gracias al equipo de Linux Mint y a Clement Lefebvre

  216. Looks great! I have LM9, 10 and 11 on machines at home – and just think every new one gets better…
    Please don’t forget to include Samba as default on the DVD version – essential for my networking classroom where I introduce all my students to LM (but cannot connect to the Internet)

  217. Hi Clem and everyone at the Mint team,

    it is so good to see that you really think carefully about what to do to keep Mint a good – if not even the best – OS.

    I strongly believe that coming up with MGSE is exactly the right thing to do and it most likely will be the main reason that Mint will pass Ubuntu in the next year if not even this year.

    Let’s face it, as much as most of us like Gnome 2 it will not be developed anymore, so you can not stick to it. Time does not stand still! To make Mint attractive to a broad mass Gnome 3 is what you should concentrate on now and adding MGSE is just what Gnome 3 needs to make us feel “at home” again while keeping up with the technology. In my opinion this is a step in the right direction, maybe even the only right one. As always I am deeply impressed with what the Mint team comes up again! The screenshot looks very good!

  218. An interesting approach, but conclusive evidence of seriously misplaced priorities. As others have commented, it would be far better if you spent the time and energy making certain Mint 11 actually worked. An OS is a tool. I expect it to work. Period. No tweaking, no excuses. Both Mint 11 and 10 fail that essential criteria. To be fair, so does Ubuntu.

    Mint 11 STILL DOES NOT WORK with multiple wireless cards that had functioned perfectly in Mint 9. I see no serious effort to correct that deficiency. I had to switch to SuSE to try to regain Internet access. Based on Jack Halem’s comment, I will explore Zorin.

    Another note. I tried to use the Forum to seek help to correct the Mint 10 and 11 deficiencies. I could not post questions without registering. As my internet connection was the problem, I could not easily register. If you are serious about “helping,” then provide a way to post questions seeking help without delay.

    One final observation. As interesting as Mint and other Linux distributions are, and as much as I loath and detest Macro$haft, Mint remains a hobbyists toy. It is definitely NOT ready for daily business use. I have served on multiple corporate Boards for many years and as Chairman of the Board of both US and UK companies. I would love to avoid the expense and aggravation of Macro$haft. Unfortunately, their grossly overpriced and bloated OS works. I can not as a fiduciary vote for our companies to consider moving to an OS like Mint 10 – 11 that malfunctions for obscure and uncorrected reasons.

    The interest in choice for Mint 12 is nice, even commendable. However, I am appalled at the prospect of an OS that blithely ignores the cost of the time and effort that will be required for people to learn the “newest” way to use their computers. Sadly, yet another example of why this is a toy and not a serious business tool.

    Oh, and Mint 10 – 11 STILL MALFUNCTION!!

  219. I have been using Ubuntu for a long.Sometimes I switched to Linuxmint but came back to Ubuntu due to software update issues (very slow and sometime update errors) with mint.It is time to switch permanently to Linuxmint when it is released mint 12. I have been using Ubuntu 11.10 (Gnome 3) since day 1. Everything slows down.When I change from one application to another,the number of mouse-click is unbearable. Looking forward to Mint 12.

  220. hi Clem, hi developer-Team,

    i have just read this article, because I was also really waiting for more information on LinuxMint 12. And for me it’s the same, that I can’t wait to test the RC of LinuxMint 12. I want to figure out, if the opensource-driver for nvidia-graphic will again bring my GPU to high temperatures as it did with LinuxMint 11 until up to now or if the new proprietary nvidia-driver will fully support your LMGSE. This shot of the desktop looks meaningful to me and I can’t hardly wait to have a go on LinuxMint 12.

    Please keep this distro running in future and I really can confirm the user Holger, saying:

    “To make Mint attractive to a broad mass Gnome 3 is what you should concentrate on now and adding MGSE is just what Gnome 3 needs to make us feel “at home” again while keeping up with the technology. In my opinion this is a step in the right direction, maybe even the only right one. As always I am deeply impressed with what the Mint team comes up again! The screenshot looks very good!”

    I admire LinuxMint since I had started with LinuxMint 9 Isadora. So I have seen the development in the last year and I am really happy, what you give us with MGSE for making us feel at home again.

    Please go on with this careful development Clem and developer-Team. And as I said: a wonderful distro will be awaiting us and I really look forward to this new release.

    Thanks Clem and Team, that you did not follow the way of Ubuntu. This was the only right decision. Thanks again!!

    yours sincerely
    Andrea from Germany

  221. Personally I’ve been waiting for a full Mintyfied Gnome 3 release for some time.

    @Clem and all: youŕe doing a great job! I try out all the big distros, but I allways come back to Mint. Even managed to switch from Windows to Mint at work 😉

    @all who don’t like the way Mint Main is going: You can switch to any flavour you want. And if you don’t, then keep the critcism something the Mint team can build upon / work with; Stop the flaming please!

  222. @LordOfKnowledge: you can set your own wallpaper. Search the web and download the image wallpaper you like. Then open Nautilus, right click on the image file, select “Set as Wallpaper”. As your name implies, I suppose you know that already. It would be more productive for LM Team to concentrate on important features than the cosmetic details which users can configure easily.

  223. Clement and Mint-project hats off to you guys, I now know for sure why people respect you so much, really guys you deserve all the kudos in the world, I mean you can well fail and have more headaches , but the very fact that *you care* about your users is a lesson for other distros, you deserve to be ahead of Ubuntu, One small sugesstion, why don’t you have your own repos , some of the Ubuntu repos are broken ,some package removed without notice, i don’t know but some-packages never upgraded on my system, others gracefully did. so i guess it has to do with repos , but anyway hats-off to you guys for your wonderful efforts.

  224. As a long time ubuntu user I have switch to MINT due to unity. I hope never to see that in MINT. I love the simplicity of MINT.

    Bill

  225. Great news! Linux Mint gives us back the choice Ubuntu took away. Not a big Unity/Gnome 3 fan. Mint has always run smoothly on all my computers. Can’t wait.

  226. @ Clem and developer-Team:

    I just have last Question: is it possible to install this new gnome-shell with the LMGSE in LinuxMint 11 for testing-reasons?? Because I just looked up my synaptic and it is not yet in the synaptic.

    So how do I do that?? Could you be kind and give me a short hint about how to do that?

    Greetings and thick thanks,
    Andrea

  227. 2 DVD’s one with traditional desktop and the other with GNOME 3 in full glory is what i am looking forward to. Wish the Mint team all the Success.

  228. Meanwhile at Gnome HQ:

    -Hey Mint is tampering with our baby and everybody is cheering them? But why we made it? They have ruined our work turning Gnome3 into a compelling desktop environment!!!!

    …Meanwhile at Ubuntu HQ:

    Mark Shuttleworth: Who ate my cheese?

    Congratulations to the Linux Mint Team, “you guys get it” Gnome and Ubuntu lost the plot a long while ago.

  229. This is basically what I had been looking to see happen with gnome 3 once finally integrated by competent hands, so I am actually rather pleased with this outcome. This I consider rather usable as well as embracing the future. Excellent work!

  230. Only-to-Moderator; why my comments are still awaiting moderation since 6:55PM? That’s more than 24 hours. Is something wrong?

    Edit by mod: Apologies for the delay, it just takes time sometimes, especially in the middle of a release and when so many people comment at the same time 🙂

  231. I moved away from ubuntu because of unity and fear Mint would go to Gnome 3 and have been waiting for Debian Mint Kde, but in the classic mode. Change is the dynamic of the age but for me a computer is for tasks – I have things to do and I just want to be able to get on with them. Gnome 3 under MGSE sounds good to me. Well done.

  232. please remove the top panel or add an option to do so – and LM will be just perfect (it seems to me some developers start forgetting that not everyone’s got a 55′ display – that top panel is just wasted space on monitors including and below 19-inches).

  233. Please make available an install option to get a vanilla Gnome 3.2 desktop with all Mint extensions turned off. Just like several people around me, I am really appreciating the clean Gnome 3 interface in Fedora. The bottom line to switch to Linux Mint would be the Debian package management. I am eager to see Gnome 3.2 in LMDE, which would be my first choice.

  234. It looks great, I really like the way MInt wants to develop Gnome 3 with MGSE. What I don’t like is what you say about the search engines, please don’t turn Mint into adware (I don’t have any troubles with the fact that you make business with Google and similars, but I hope that those business don’t include thousands of pop-ups or violates user’s privacy)

  235. I am a ubuntu fan. Not so much technical but loves to use linux, tried unity GNOME but am not expected the way it’s working. These changes in these window environment was some what wired.
    I hope mint idea is very pleasing for me. I am waiting for Mint 12!

  236. Clem! Please! Blue mint paper default!
    Congrats again, we’re distrowatch number 1.
    This has been a real PRESTIGE in Linux world for yeeeaarrsss…

  237. @greywalk: I get the impression that top panel cannot be removed or moved to the bottom in gnome 3 (based on what Clem mentioned earlier) i was waiting for a post back from Clem here to clarify on that….

    However, I believe he did mention that you can remove the bottom panel and move the new “slab menu” and window switcher to the top, instead…If that be the case, you will have to get use to one panel on top but you won’t have a bottom panel (in addition) to cut into your real estate space on the screen…

  238. I like Ubuntu’s 11.10 and how it’s laid out. I actually uninstalled Mint 11 at work because the new layout of Ubuntu drew me to it. It’s a breath of fresh air and I hope Mint 12 will do something similar. Honestly, I’m tired of the standard menu layout and believe that the popular linux distros are going to have to move in this direction. On the picture of Mint 12, will there be two task bars? Doesn’t seem ideal to me but I’ll hold out and wait since it’s still early. Go Mint!

  239. I have put KDE on top of Mint11 and I just love it. I feel it needs work just like unbuntu often does to make it more user friendly. The sound issues are complex and cause many to leave KDE and it has some things that are seemingly unstable to me. Yet, I love KDE because it has the ability to have virtual desktops with different widgets for each. The plasma desktop is also extremely beautiful to me although I can’t say why. I have two installs of mint11 which have eight virtual desktops each and with different backgrounds on each virtual desktop. I would like mint team to consider making their own hybrid of KDE and Gnome to include nice features like automatically detecting and switching to headphones, (not easy to set up in KDE and I lost that but its great). I also love gnome 3 but miss the things you mentioned so your next OS will be great for me. Yet, I think what is in gnome3 reminds me of an ap for windows called “preme”, anyway all you do is go to the upper left corner to create a vision of all your applications or to create a new virtual desktop get a clear screen and do another project. You can switch between the projects anytime just by putting the cursor arrow up to the left hand side of the screen. Yet having discovered it I just looked into it to give two of my windows using friends something closer to the mint experience. I simply think you could do a great hybrid between the two projects of gnome and KDE. You might play with the preme idea too. I think that such a desktop would really wow the computer world if mint team was as successful with it as they have been with other projects. Easy to use plasma desktop? Wow, but I bet mint team could do it.

  240. Why dump on LM for this crapola? Please. LM is the only reason I still have Linux on my computer at all these days. And right now, the LM team is trying to clean up someone else’s mess.

    I say just dump the mess and stop being twisted up into a pretzel every six months. Personally, I’m through with it, it’s too much. I would want the team to focus on the Debian version and pour all their energies into adding functionality to KDE and XFCE.

  241. I am very postive towards the work you are doing in the Linux Mint Team. You are very professional and also have a great attitude towards your user base which I find very appeling. I do not see why Bjorn in his his comment can be so annoyed as I find your way of dealing with the current situation the best possible.I see why you most move on from the Min 2,32 desktop and the two alternatives MGSE on top of Gnome 3 and Mate as and alternative seems lioke the best of two worlds. The way you are going tro generate funding is also smart and appealing.

    Like certain other users, though, I would like to see a stable main edition not based on Ubuntu, but Debian solely. I lke LMDE, but am very annoyed wich congusing behaviour anbd crashes as the whole session crashing when pulling out a 3G modem from the USB port. Ubuntu and Mepis have created great and stable distros based on Debian so it would be possible, I guess. Ubuntu is based on Debian Testing, to my knowledge, but still seems far more polished and stable then LMDE.

    Keep up the good work!
    This is the future!

  242. I am very postive towards the work you are doing in the Linux Mint Team. You are very professional and also have a great attitude towards your user base which I find very appealing. I do not see why Bjorn in his his comment can be so annoyed as I find your way of dealing with the current situation the best possible.I see why you most move on from the Min 2,32 desktop and the two alternatives MGSE on top of Gnome 3 and Mate as and alternative seems lioke the best of two worlds. The way you are going tro generate funding is also smart and appealing.

    Like certain other users, though, I would like to see a stable main edition not based on Ubuntu, but Debian solely. I lke LMDE, but am very annoyed wich congusing behaviour anbd crashes as the whole session crashing when pulling out a 3G modem from the USB port. Ubuntu and Mepis have created great and stable distros based on Debian so it would be possible, I guess. Ubuntu is based on Debian Testing, to my knowledge, but still seems far more polished and stable than LMDE.

    Keep up the good work!
    This is the future!

  243. Take your time guys.Really excited to know more about the MGSE.Well Xfce was pretty good.Can’t really find out the hardware acceleration requirements for GNOME 3.

    Hope my current specs would be able to run LISA when she hits my PC.

  244. I really like the approach you are taking at looking at switching to Gnome 3. IMHO the 2 biggest problems with Gnome 3 is 1) The lack of ATI support (nothing you guys can do about that) 2) It is application-centric rather than task-centric (Which you are actively working to fix). Thanks for the update and all the work you guys put in!

  245. @ Clem,

    What an island of sanity Linux Mint, you, and your development team represent in the open source community!!!

    The two major desktop environments are off chasing ‘cell phone butterflies’ with offerings that, to a larger or smaller part, ignore the preferences of those users who have been the core of the Linux desktop movement the past few years. On top of that, the other major Linux distributions are just taking what they have been given (I won’t even go into the Ubuntu/Unity debacle), and approached their offerings as rough-out plumbers, who defined success by whether the pipes they were delivered were cobbled together, and didn’t leak; little or no interest in whether any customization of their plumbing would make a better, more satisfying experience to their end users.

    In this setting, Linux Mint has decided to do the unthinkable — LISTEN TO THEIR END USERS, and do the really hard things to make the most satisfying Linux desktop environment given the complicated restraints they had to work with. I understand, vaguely, the technical benefits that Gnome 3 programming brings to the table. But programming benefits don’t have negate end user experience — that was a CHOICE made by Gnome to satisfy 1> their developers and 2> a new target market. You have taken the high ground in all this, and in doing so have committed to participating in a bear fight, with at least two bears, wearing only a cotton shirt…

    I have read frustration in some prior comments, regarding Linux Mint and the timing of various LM desktops, and/or elements they want in them right now. To my perspective, Linux Mint is doing things for its end users that no other distribution is doing, and its doing it with limited staff and budget. I doubt any other distribution is doing so much truly creative work with so few people. I can wait a little while for that kind of effort.

    This has been a very long-winded way of saying thank you. And kudos to your bravery and vision!

    Hawkeye52

  246. Wow! It’s great to hear!

    I’ve been with Ubuntu for about 5 years, but now I’m looking for something else because of Unity & all that new stuff…
    It’s good, there is Linux Mint around 😉
    We’ll see..

  247. Your letter echos the reasons that no matter how many linux distros I try, I always come back to Mint. I really appreciate you guys thinking of your users. And your letter was very honest and heartfelt. Technology does move forward and we all need to get on board (at some point). I really appreciate the tools you are making and providing options to use Mint anyway I like. Because that’s what it’s all about…choice. Mint is providing more choice and quality than anyone.

    I say very well done Mint developers. Personally I think you are making the right decisions, and for that I will stay with Mint forever! Take your time and get things right. We can wait. I prefer quality over speed any day. And to repeat what someone else said in their comment, “You guys get it”.

  248. @Clem – you appear to be at another crossroad for LinuxMint, where your conservative retention of Gnome2 rather than Unity bought you some time, but the growing rejection of Unity et al and vested interest lobbying is now making things difficult for the way ahead.
    At the time of Cassandra/Celena/Daryna you wisely chose the Gnome route when some were lobbying for KDE in full knowledge that it was then seriously flawed.
    Since then, Ubuntu has made a lot of ‘change for change sake’ decisions, like fixing Brasero when it wasn’t broken, so that for eighteen months I had to use Lightning’s Windows-hosted ImgBurn before I could even try, let alone install Mint or Ubuntu.
    (Incidentally, that debacle may have encouraged the growth in virtualisation.)
    When you introduced a Software Centre you still retained Synaptic, which was a good move that Ubuntu would be wise to follow. Their Software Centre isn’t as good as yours but now seems to be working, whilst your Update Manager’s ability to de-select more flakey application Updates has been a real winner for USBkey installation.

    As you may recall, I am a ‘use wot works’ and Keep It Simple user rather than a Linux guru or operating system tinkerer and so Linux Mint has worked very well for me.
    LMDE was another wise alternative that’s had some success but hasn’t yet worked for me, whilst KDE still seems over-complex, so I can understand folks preference for XFCE or LXDE, and Pinguy’s choice of Gnome2 + Docky + Conky has avoided Ubuntu’s slow responses.

    Me, I am simply prepared to wait for the RC, even if that then means having to learn ‘a new way’. Meanwhile, I’ll be using Julia or Pinguy on a USB key to get things done.
    Whatever you decide will be fine with me, but if it can simply work it will be great.
    As ever, the knack will be to please most folk most of the time and so far you have excelled.

  249. @craig that is what I would want to do also. Disable the bottom panel and have everything on the top panel. So long as the flexibility is there, that is always good. It is when true flexibility is deliberately engineered out that dead ends happen.

  250. @Clem and team – You guys obviously are loyal to your base and you know how to produce a quality distro. After using 5 or 6 various versions of Mint, I have faith you will continue to make wise decisions and improve this glorious OS. It must be difficult with all the external pressure and changing going on, nevertheless, I can’t wait for the RC!

  251. EricJ

    Certainly, other distros are going to be forced to do whatever the can to improve the Gnome 3 experience. Otherwise, they risk losing their user base. Fedora is no different. But they are only doing what the SHOULD do–nothing more. Where Mint distinguishes itself is the EXTRA effort they are putting forth to retain their user base. Will it pay off? That remains to be seen. The Mate and MGSE projects may end up being a huge waste of time and resources. But NO ONE can truthfully say it’s because Mint doesn’t give a crap about their user base.

  252. OK amid all my rantings here is the course of action I have decided to take with my present installations.

    1) Keep Mint 11 which is running off Kernel 3.1

    2) Point LMDE only to the Debian Stable repository (remove everything relating to Mint)

    3) Keep Mint 9 LTS which is running off Kernel 3.0

    When Mint 11 and Mint 9 LTS become unsupported who cares I have them exactly the way I want them to be.

    What I want is more important than all this nonsense.

    Also for the first time since 2007 I shall be looking for a different distro. for my second PC.

    I really do feel that strongly about the turn of events.

  253. Thanks clem and the dev-team, keep the good work. I’m Egyptian guy and i hope mint linux be the first OS used in my country.

  254. Could someone please explain to me how do I give Mint money by using search enginrs?
    Does that mean that I need to use the default home page in browser, specific browser?

  255. @Guy….you do that…and please stop ranting here…the majority of the mint community is very appreciative of Clem’s solutions to try to make most of us happy (more then what most distros are willing to do)…obviously, you can’t appreciate that…you want it your way and nothing else….

    Gnome 3 is where it’s at now…Gnome 2 is dead…if you can’t live with any changes then just stay with older versions of mint forever…Computer Technology is about adapting to new things…otherwise they still would be like they were in the 1950’s (taking about entire rooms instead of sitting on your desk! (lol)….

    @ David…yes…if that could be done…it will be great…hopefully Clem will comment back on that (being able to just have top panel with slab menu and window switcher on it)….

  256. I’d also like to ask if the default theme is compatible with Unity and Unity 2D if someone decides to install it manually.

  257. No matter, Mint Rules! That approach to the Gnome (2/3) problem is the better solution that anyone can think. Everyone can use the old G2 (mate), the new G3 desktop or the MGSE that permit to try an intermedite experience.

  258. I can’t wait to move from my Mint 10 to 12. But if more time is required to make it a quality product like we expect from Mint, then by all means take it. Nobody wants a rushed release just to make a date. All good things come to those who wait 😉

  259. I’m probably not as “passionate” about my desktop as other people seem to be but here we go…

    Linux Mint has been my favourite distro since Helena. Two main reasons: everthing works out of the box and the “one-panel-Gnome” (I discovered via OpenSUSE). Going back to two panels, not a bonus…

    According to me, people expect too much of Clem and his team. Stretching their efforts to keep everybody happy (obviously impossible by the way) will not benefit the quality of Mint, although the team is doing a fabulous job.
    My advice: focus on the main edition with a Gnome 3 desktop and the LMDE/LXDE edition as alternative. KDE-fans are better of with PCLinuxOS or Mageia.

    I’ve been running Sabayon 7 with Gnome 3.2 lately and actually quite liked it. So… I’ll wait till the wining stops and the dust settles and install Mint 13 LTS in the standard Gnome 3.2 way without the MGSE extras.

  260. I’m glad that linux mint have solution for the upcoming gnome (finally) … well we can’t use ver 2.xx forever right? (even though ver2 is the best gnome version)

  261. Hi guys

    To be honest I am a bit dissapointed. Switching to Gnome3 is big step back, no matter how much effort you put in making gnome3 usable it is still a mess. One small example of it is top panel which can not be (re)moved, it is just insane.
    Another , more important example, it is impossible to use compiz anymore, just sad, and wasted potencial, wasted code. (Fortunately Compiz can be still used with KDE and some other managers so there are some alternatives at least)
    There are many more examples of lack of configurability and limitations which just do not exist in gnome 2.3

    It is still (a bit) better than unity, nonetheless it is a step back.

    Of course I am aware it is not fault of Mint team but insanity of gnome developers, “head up the arse” said by Linus Torvals 🙂

    I am going to install Mint 11 (now I have Mint 10), and wait until the whole insanity about all those new interfaces calms down and situation is more stable. Or somebody sane decides to support and more important develop and add new features to Gnome2 branch, I hope Mate project will do.

    Gnome3 ( and unity as well ) should be buried and forgot, is is just shame for the whole Linux world.

    I see current situation similar to what was happening some time ago with Microsoft. After years of developing they have had finally a stable enough and reliable system which is windows XP, then somebody at headquarters started think too much and they made vista which is an uncompatible, slow and bloaty mess, nobody wanted it.
    It is now same but in Linux world.
    I hope situation will change soon, because what I see now almost makes me cry.

  262. I’m quietly hoping Gnome Shell fonts will be upgraded. It is the first thing people see on the screen. Fonts should be perfect. Rugged ones, I’ve seen with new Gnome kept me at a distance to the Shell. The rest of the project looks promising and very inviting to a new user. Changes are needed, and I agree with the Mint’s team, subtle changes that people can take and adjust to. Congratulations for pulling off such a wonderful project.

    PS. Please work on the fonts.

  263. Not sure, if I will enable all those extension because I like the way Gnome 3.2 works today. But the direction Mint takes is the right solution.

  264. @Teg: Teg, if the default theme is working in G3 Shell, it’ll work in unity. The two are very close at the molment, the only difference being that GNOME shell has the overview handle window switching, whereas Unity has the launcher do it. Personally, I like unity better because you don’t have to hide everything to switch windows or launch apps. I know people who don’t mind that though. Try GS for a while, and if you hate it, there are alternatives out there.

  265. That’s to assume that in a year’s time, upstream won’t write the panel out of the code altogether. So the community engages in this herculean effort to bang out solutions with the possibility of being broadsided once again.

    Maybe they’ll write out keyboard functionally as well, so we can all just sort of beam our intentions directly from our brains to the computer or something. Of course, that’s silly, but you know, based on past behavior (which has gone on for awhile now) I am sad to say that I don’t trust that future design decisions by these folks will always be informed by common-sense.

    They appear to be wedded to ever evolving variations of the “Lens” type UI. So let them enjoy it, and fly free unencumbered. I don’t see that there is a viable way to adapt that to a productive desktop environment without completely dismantling much of it. And I don’t expect the LM team and the rest of the OS community to continue forever expending all this energy trying to do so. So that’s four posts now and all of my 4 cents.

  266. I myself got annoyed with the little problems with Unity in LinuxMint, and found a way around all of the problems fixed in Ubuntu. Really that’s only (for some) Unity, and (for all) missing codecs. Both are replaced in the Ubuntu Restricted Extras, Gnome Fallback mode, and a package called libplaydvd or something like that. Check the Ubuntu forums on that one.

  267. Ohyeah, and applets can be tweaked by using alt+rightclick instead of just right click, but they’re still there. Same with most of the config utilities.

  268. Been with Mint since Daryna, making annual upgrades on the even numbers at the new year or so (4, 6, 8, 10). Big thanks to the LM team and Clem!

    As I read this thread, thinking now that with the big changes for 12, I’ll be sitting this one out. For me, the annual clean install takes about 5 hours to get everything working, don’t need to spend extra time sorting out problems with a new DM.

    I have two PC’s running Mint, for personal and small business. I need an OS that runs smoothly and reasonably fast on modest hardware, with fonts easy on the eyes, offering standard applications. So far, LM has always met my needs. Thanks again!

  269. I hate icons on my desktop, I hope I will have that choice to not have them there ? I don’t like the Unity bar looking thing stuck on the left (GNOME 3 Website), I happen to like the bottom panel. I can organize myself the way I work on my computer, I hope that Linux Mint isn’t to try and be idiot proof with more gizmos and fewer choices.

    I love Mint, don’t screw it up please !

  270. Can anyone argue that this is the distro which cares for its users?
    That’s why after trying lots of other distros I eded up with Mint, some years ago: consideration for users’ opinions and freedom of choice.

    Keep up the good work, everyone in Mint Team.

  271. Neither Mint 10 nor Mint 11 work consistently on my PC without crashing. I do hope you can produce a decent distro this time that actually works, or have those who produced up to 9 now left the team? Choosing to follow the herd and move to the (hated) Gnome 3 is another bad omen for Mint, which used to be good but is rapidly going down hill!

  272. First, I really want to thank you guys for all this work, doing your best to offer us this neat Linux Mint desktop. I do apreciate that your main goal remains to provide a tool that fit our needs. For me spending 8h a day in front of my computer, the beast has to behave as perfect as possible in term of stability. To be short: it must work. I can read in your post that it’s a major deal for LM team too and I am very glad of this since all these tweaks to twist the base in order to turn it right really started to freak me out ! For instance the new MGSE layer: on one hand its aims to bring more flexibility and is user oriented, but in the other hand it’s one extra piece that add complexity to the system and increase probability of bugs, leading toward less stability. Bad dreams: I remains confident in your work guys 😉

    Also, I have couple 1GB 10′ netbooks running Ubuntu Netbook Edition 10.04. Ubuntu no longer provide an optimized version for Netbook and it seems to me that the current version will be too fat for such a hardware. LXDE and XFCE are not as neat, E17 not as stable. Do you think next Linux Mint version (12 or 13-LTS) could be install in replacement of UNE 10.04 on an 1GB Netbook (maybe with a few tweaks) ?

    Well, can’t wait testing LM 12 though.
    Cheers,

  273. I appreciate very very much(!!) the MGSE and Mate projects on top of Gnome 3 !
    Again I can see that Clem and crew try to avoid the user being slammed to the stones like some ‘other distro’s’ think they can do.
    Bringing forward the arguments here shows Clem is talking to community en listening too. Again I’m very happy with the way things are presented. Thanks a lot, I’ll stay with Mint. Thanks a lot!

  274. This is fantastic news, i absolutely cannot wait for 12 to come out to take me out of the misery that is Unity.

    Cannot thank you guys enough! keep up the great work.

  275. Your approach to gnome 3 seems perfect solution! For those who like to use the old gnome 2, I think mate is dumb name (not your fault though)! Just try to google search about mate and you see the point. I was allways hoping that if gnome ever gets forked, the name would be emong, a bit like firefox => iceweasel situation, but only with mirroring name (& probably icon too).. Well as said it’s not your fault that the project is named as mate, and developers want to stick with name..

    What comes to Mint 12, I hope it will be released soon, so I can made a switch from ubuntu 10.04. 🙂

  276. @Craig

    While I do agree with you about accepting change, I did find your post a bit of a rant as well. The Mint people’s work isn’t going unappreciated because users that have current work on-going and good time invested on their current Mint machines, have questions about change that, just who the responsibility for the full impact upon their work and time investment gos to, gos to if such change turns out to be bad for them.

    Craig, improvement doesn’t mean it should disrupt users work, having them spending time to re-learn how, to get back, or as close to, as they were before the change. Using users as lab mice to forward GNOME 3 doesn’t pass the smell test !

    Accepting change ?
    Mint team please provide the following information:

    What, all known GNOME packages (applications) break with GNOME 3 ?

    What, all known codecs, drivers, and development tools break or otherwise just have real problems in GNOME 3 ?

    What, all, if any, current documentation is available ? That in some detail, cover the changes that offer some good understanding before users may make the mistake installing Mint with GNOME 3 ?

    Linux Mint team as a Mint user I ask you, to please offer your users a choice at install, a choice of what GNOME they will be happy working with and spend less time just working through problems and lost time. To tell you the truth, it is just not worth not giving users the choice to get LM 12 out.

  277. Thank you. I had – for the first time in many years – considered forgoing updates and staying on Mint 11 for as long as practical ( even 3 years + ).

    But from this, I can tell that the Mint team will address my concerns with the new generation Linux desktops.

  278. @ Craig

    That is precisely the kind of attitude that causes such problems in the first place. Just like Ubuntu if you don’t like Unity TOUGH.

    Surely there would be place for a seperate GNOME 2 Release (as was hinted previously) on the Mint blog by Clem himself. It cannot be that difficult as the template from previous releases is already in place.

    GNOME 2 is stable and that above all things is the most important.

    I have long been a user of Mint and find it somewhat puzzling that I am having to go on about something so basic and fundamental.

    Once again I say GNOME 3 is unstable and to add MGSE on top of that is no less than asking for trouble.

    The Mint team are trying to reinvent the wheel in one foul swoop and by doing so could possibly cause irrepairable damage to what is THE PERFECT DISTRO.

  279. Quote by Clem in the September stats.

    “Linux Mint 12 “Lisa” will be released in November this year with continued support for Gnome 2 but also with the introduction of Gnome 3. The radical changes introduced by the Gnome project split the community. At the time of releasing Linux Mint 11 we decided it was too early to adopt Gnome 3. This time around, the decision isn’t as simple. Gnome 3.2 is more mature and we can see the potential of this new desktop and use it to implement something that can look and behave better than anything based on Gnome 2. Of course, we’re starting from scratch and this process will take time and span across multiple releases. Until then, it’s important we continue to support the traditional Gnome 2 desktop. We’re likely to release two separate editions, one for Gnome 2.32 and one for Gnome 3.2. We’re also working in cooperation with the MATE project (which is a fork of Gnome 2) at the moment to see if we can make both desktops compatible in an effort to let you run both Gnome 2 (or MATE) and Gnome 3 on the same system, either in Linux Mint 12, or for the future.”

    SO WHAT HAPPENED ???????

  280. 1) “Linux Mint 12 “Lisa” will be released in November this year with continued support for Gnome 2

    2) We’re likely to release two separate editions, one for Gnome 2.32 and one for Gnome 3.2.

  281. I am testing the Mint Menu in Arch Linux, and I have some feedback to do.
    The Menu is very clever and it just flows and continues Linux Mint tradition.

    1 ) – Please use the Ubuntu fonts, they are really the best in GNOME Shell.

    2 ) – Can the BOTTOM panel be like GNOME 2, just a tasklist bar with workspaces?

    3 ) – Can MENU replace “Activities” ?

    I think this could be more or less a GOOD experience for everyone.

  282. I think Ubuntu is really going a different direction. Someone over there really believes in the “post-PC world” where everyone has a tablet. They need to put down the marketing pipe and get some fresh air – that’s just not going to happen.

    While 90% of people will probably have some smart phone, tablet, XBox, or whatever to get Facebook and e-mail and that sort of thing, there will always be another 10% of people that need to tussle with video feeds, complex spreadsheets on multiple monitors, write programs, etc. When you need to do real work, you need a real desktop. While Unity or Android or iOS may serve the 90%, they are absolutely barriers to people trying to do actual work.

    I’ve been an Ubuntu fan since near the beginning. They are trying to be something new and popular, but they are not trying to be something I NEED. Judging from this blog post, Mint is.

  283. My two cents:

    The bottom panel and the top one should be the same color. Consistency is important. Grey, of course, is by far more “mint” than black.

    There should be greater separation in the application bar between them. It’s confusing and ugly.

    The menu is too transparent and, again, the black is not the best option. Looks cheap and very reminiscent of KDE. I’d bet on a grey one , less transparent and with the scroll bars in green.

    It is possible, with another extension, delete the Applications screen of the activities and leave only the open windows screen? otherwise it is redundant

    Zukitwo is popular, but Mint-X was the most elegant theme I’ve ever seen on a desktop. I hope you can recover something similar in future editions.

    You are the most amazing team of developers in the world and linux mint is the best distribution. By far. Keep it up.

  284. I hope that the interface will have solid multi-monitor support, which is Gnome 3’s biggest problem in my opinion. Users should have the option of extending the panels in the same form across all monitors.

    Anyway, I really like the design. Mint is clearly a lot more focused on its present user-base than most operating systems.

  285. Thanks for testing DuckDuckGo, Clem. Yes, we will enjoy it while it lasts – it’s such a relief not to be tracked for a few days 🙂

    At the moment I am still so happy with my LMDE … sometimes it plays up a little but for me it’s still the best out here. I have been with Mint since Darya LM 4 and have always trusted the skill and efforts of you and the team to get things right.

    Congratulations to the team on reaching number One in Distro Watch. May the numbers of users keep on growing and may taskbars be located where users want them to be. Cheers 🙂

  286. @Guy

    Get over yourself. Gnome 2 will no longer be supported, what do you expect clem to do?

    If you don’t like Gnome 3, use mint debian, or even debian stable itself. Eventually you will have to switch to Gnome 3 whether you like it or not (or use KDE, XFCE, Windows, whatever)

    Gnome 2 is done, over, dead, finito. You have a plethora of choices. Stop being a Luddite and deal with it.

  287. Clem, your beliefs and your attitude regarding Linux Mint, and the fact that you listen to the community is one of the many reasons why Linux Mint is one of the most widely used incarnations of Linux, and why the amount of users is climbing. I am very impressed with the preview, which only serves to make me even more excited for the release. I can hardly wait to see how the changes are implemented. But please don’t let my or anyone else’s excitement rush anyone; I for one truly appreciate the fact that everyone involved is taking their time and making sure that the new release is really ready when it comes out.

    Until it does, I wait with baited breath.

  288. I, personally would like a situation built in for those of us that don’t want or need the TSA type security.. I’ve said this before and so one more time.. I am 75 years old and live alone, don’t need or want a sign in..I used windows for many years and it is easy to screw up windows and when you do, just reinstall.. I know how to reinstall Linux if I screw it up.. come on folks, lets be reasonable with this security.. If someone uses my comp with my knowing, then I must be dead and why would I care what happens to it then >> Thanks for listening and think about this >> Thanks Garry

  289. @ Bob

    I don’t like KDE, XFCE , LXDE , FLUXBOX etc. and frankly I take your suggestion of Windows as an insult.

    I already work with LMDE as one of my distros. but to save myself from what I do not want I have already pointed to Debian Stable and disabled anyting relating to Linux Mint.

    Interesting I have been called a Ludditte before. I am not opposed to change. I just do not like it when it is forced upon me. Especially seeing as it was a cert that Mint 12 WOULD support GNOME 2

  290. As much as I appreciate the mint team’s effort, I think I am going to wait a while for Gnome 3 to mature a little bit more. I value stability above all else. I am currently evaluating KDE and XFCE as possible stop-gap environments until Gnome 3 has matured.

  291. @Guy

    “I am not opposed to change. I just do not like it when it is forced upon me.”

    That’s life. 🙂 Although, in this instance, no one is forcing anything on you. Stay with Mint pointed at debian stable then. Heck, you could run Mint 11 for as long as you want.

  292. MSGE will probably beat our Gnome3 while at the same time beating out Ubuntu. Gnome3 is a little to simplified, (or perhaps I am a little to dumb to fully realize its usefulness.)

    Great work!

  293. Yes, I might wait for Gnome 3 to mature a bit too. LTS for the desktop is now moving to five years so Mint in May next year, should be ideal on top of a more developed Gnome 3.

    I’m on Lubuntu 11.10 now and its so fast and stable. May eventually move over to Mint LXDE or wait for Mint 13. I will certainly be playing with Mint 12 though. The work that the Mint team has done in recent months is fantastic and your results on distro watch seem to reflect this.

  294. LVM is becoming more and more common, in fact all of my PC’s at home us it.

    Installing a duel boot linux mint system on an LVM is a pain.
    In fact for mint 11 I installed ubuntu 11.04 without a desk top environment using the alternate installer and then installed the linux mint packages on top of it.
    It worked but it took hours 🙁

    Having LVM support would make installing much easer for those of us who use it.

  295. If Linux Mint 12 continues to have Firefox as their default browser, thankfully Ubuntu 11.04 and above includes the latest versions in their repositories.

    If the team decides to include Chromium, it is much better to have the Chromium Stable PPA from https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/stable activated so the Mint team doesn’t have to worry about managing Chromium in their own repositories.

  296. @ Guy: please give it up already…just stick with mint 11 forever then, or find some other solution….i don’t know if you noticed this but you and the ones posting negatively about gnome 3 are in the minority here…the VAST MAJORITY are very pleased with the direction Clem is going with Mint…

    if it doesn’t fit your particular philsophy…then my suggestion is: Don’t use Mint…go with another distro that meets your requirements…or build your own…and stop being an “armchair general” (lol)….

    Oh…and regarding your Ubuntu comment…well, i don’t see Ubuntu offering the kind of choices and flexibility Clem is…so don’t know what the heck you are talking about when you say Mint is being just like Ubuntu in not offering any flexibility…

    To the rest here…best to ignore his comments from this point on…he is just “trolling”….

  297. I like Ubuntu, and really enjoy and appreciate Linux MINT which I now use in a dual boot with Win7. BUT. With my new Laptop, the Headphone sound does not work. It was completely fine with my old XP laptop which just croaked, but not with this one. Headphone sound only comes out the PC speakers and doesn’t disconnect or play when headphones are inserted. It did that with Ubuntu 11.04 and Linux Mint both. It’s very aggravating to have to reboot to Windows to listen to headphone music or to use Skype with a Mic/Headphones. Also my Magic Jack phone won’t work in Linux. Until those things are fixed for good, Windows is still going to be my default OS.

  298. thanks for your hard work you guys are putting into LinuxMint12.nice job is looking hot thanks and have a good day bye.

  299. Gnome 3 is nice and easy to work with, but it has a problem of not opening 2nd window of the same application. If what you are doing would help opening many windows of the same application, I’d be very happy. Gnome 2 had its heyday and its time for new technology. Can I install Mint 12RC and then upgrade it to Mint12 without downloading Mint 12? Or should I wait till Mint 12 is issued?

    Thanks Clem!

  300. Hi Friends! I’m a satisfied LMDE amd64 user running on current Linux kernel 3.0 and a great distro by Linux Mint Team. I’d love to see LMDE’s KDE edition in future and further enhancements. In my opinion the Mint Team understands the user’s preferences and requirements better than any other Linux Distro and they do not force anything on users. Great going Linux Mint Team, Keep it up! we are with you!

  301. I like choice, I don’t like secrecy. I don’t like Gnome 3, but I believe Mint will do a good job with it. I will test it but I don’t think it will replace my good old Debian with fluxbox.

  302. I think GNOME 3 is the way to go. I also think it could be a good idea to add a menu at installation time for enabling or disabling MGSE for classic GNOME 2 and new GNOME 3 environment with the help of a screenshot. Of course the users will have the option of managing the extensions after the installation.

  303. MGSE is the way to go. Maintenance of MATE will be a unnecessary use of energy, money, and skills. MATE was a good idea until MGSE showed the possibilities of using Gnome3 as the main components of the Gnome2 look and feel.

    Red Hat, Suse, and others have resources and interests to invest. It is a very good idea to keep the differences from them as small as possible. It was Red Hat, Suse, and some others that paid most of the full time Gnome2 developers. They work on Gnome3 at this point.

    The Open Source community should build on each other and make sure their own contributions is likely to be useful for others. This is a more effective approach. The main failure of Unity is the lack of cooperation. It will be a costly investment with a questionable return.

    I will not be surprised if Red Hat choose to invest in MGSE to help develop it as a alternative traditional GUI for RHEL7. Many of the Red Hat business customers are conservative.

  304. I also belong to the ‘don’t like the new Unity look’ – group. Thank you very much guys for all your hard work and effort to try to provide and keep that good Mint-pc experience you are talking about in the blog. As always, I’m looking forward to use the new Mint.

  305. @ Craig

    I repeat once again Clem stated in his own words there would be GNOME 2 version of Mint 12 !

    YES or NO it is as simple as that.

    I would appreciate it if you were to take back the trolling remark.

  306. Hi Clem’ (in french under)

    I try some MGSE features through Web Upd8 ppa. I know it isn’t exactly the future Mint experience, but I have an idea and I see some problems.

    1) Now in Mint we are going to have a pannel on top and a pannel on bottom ; we should remove the top panel if we want (and put systray on bottom)
    2) Bottom task bar is usefull (the greatest improvment of Gnome-shell !) but notifications at center and task bar doesn’t work together very well (the center notification are not up the task bar but over the task bar)
    3) All icons in the same systray is usefull (now I can use again my usefull gmusicbrowser icon easyly) but, in the systray, icons take to much space because of the space beetween them ; should be fix in Mint Theme (less space, same icons)
    4) Not sure but it seems the Mint Menu is not affect by theme ; it should be
    5) Can’t find Menu personnalisation (recent docs ? shortcut to places without clic on places ? shortcut to system app)
    6) App in dock are taken to be in Menu ; could be a goo idea but not for me : I have in dock (GS dock, Unity dock or AWN dock) my daily app (Firefox, GMB, etc.) ; I call them first level app ; After, I have in menu (not avaliable in GS nor Unity, in favorite Mintmenu) my regulary-but-not-daily app (screenshot, calc, etc.); I call them the second level app ; And after that the third level app : all others (GS app, Dash Unity, Other Mint app). In this preview, for only that point, I think new MintMenu is bader than older. Don’t misunderstand : it’s a GS improvment but a Mint regression.

    —- In french —-

    Salut Clém’

    J’ai essayé quelques unes des nouveautés de MGSE grâce au dépôt de Web Upd8. Je sais qu’ainsi je n’ai qu’une vue partielle de ce que sera Mint, mais ça donne une idée et j’y ai vu quelques problèmes.

    1) Désormais Mint aura un tableau de bord en haut et un autre en bas ; je trouve qu’il devrait être possible de n’en avoir qu’un seul (en haut ou en bas), la zone de notification s’intégrant dans celui choisi.

    2) La barre des tâches ! Youpi ! C’est le mieux qu’il pouvait arriver à GS ! Mais les notifications qui apparaissent au centre ne fonctionnent pas de façon optimale avec cette barre de tâches. Elles devraient apparaître un peu plus haut or elles apparaissent par-dessus en transparence, ce qui n’est pas du meilleur effet.

    3) Renvoyer toutes les icônes dans la même zone est une très pratique (je peux enfin utiliser mon icône de gmusicbrowser facilement sans galérer à la faire apparaître) mais elles occupent trop de place à cause de l’espace entre ces icônes – sous GS-nonMint il y en a moins donc cet espace peut se justifier mais là il va y en avoir plus donc il faudra pouvoir réduire cet espacement ; ça devrait pouvoir se régler dans le thème (moins d’espace, même icônes)
    4) J’ai l’impression que le nouveau menu n’est pas affecté par le thème qu’on choisit – je n’en suis pas sûr – or il devrait l’être
    5) Je n’ai pas trouvé de personnalisation possible pour le menu (pour le faire ressembler à l’ancien par exemple avec les documents récents, les raccourcis vers des répertoires sans cliquer sur l’icône “places”, les raccourcis vers les fonctions système etc.)
    6) Les applications du dock sont automatiquement affichées dans le menu ; c’est a priori le plus logique mais, pour moi, ce n’est pas une bonne idée. J’ai dans mon dock (sous GS, Unity ou Mint avec AWN) les app de tous les jours ; je les appelle mes app de premier niveau ; Ensuite, j’ai dans mon menu (seulement applicable sous Mint par les favoris du menu, parce que sous GS et Unity ce n’est pas possible) les applications que j’utilise régulièrement mais pas tous les jours (calculatrice, capture d’écran, etc.) ; je les appelle les app de deuxième niveau ; et enfin les applications de troisième niveau, c’est-à-dire toutes les autres. De ce point de vue, je trouve que le nouveau MenuMint est moins bien que l’ancien. Ne te méprend pas : ce menu est une amélioration de l’interface GS mais une régression de Mint.

    En espérant avoir été constructif, bien à toi.

  307. I suggest to some people to be patient, once the OS is released you can make your opinions. This is a big step for LM and Gnome users will have to adjust to the new technology, there is no way back. LM always been GREEN, blue was for KDE. If people likes another color they can easily change but please, stop demanding silly futures. Let Clem finish his product and then express your opinion.

  308. @tdockery97

    That looks great. I suppose it’s possible to have Mint menu and windows list on that panel as well.

    @Xpander

    I’m not using a widescreen monitor at work either but I always hated having two panels in other distros. Actually, this was the main reason why I switched over to Mint.

  309. well. i have red almost all the opinions about this new release and frankly i must admit that i don’t share the same enthusiasm.
    gnome 3 has been out for nearly 12 months. the mint team has had enough time to come out with smth really minty. but what have they done in the meantime …. ? just a bottom panel with a menu (and to be honest it looks rather ugly too. a black one on top of a grey background and upper panel).
    i was expecting smth with the mint trade mark that we know and love (the classic layout and the great functionality). what we have instead is not a mint shell, which i was eagerly waiting for (congratulation to ubuntu for unity and elementary for pantheon) , but just some extensions and a hybrid desktop which increases the clutter and the confusion.
    i really hope that this is just a bridge release to a real minty one.

  310. Post no. 383 shows something that looks to be what many of us want. Does anyone know how it was done? Is it viable for Mint? It looks like a simpler solution.

  311. allow flexibility on the position of the panel, top/bottom/left/right.

    this is a distro to look forward to.

  312. Dear Clem and LM team,

    no matter what some individuals do not understand or seem to have very personal issues with, you are on the right track. Do not loose sight of it!

    The vast majority of LM users wholeheartedly appreciate the fact that you are so carefully considering what to do to keep LM the beautiful distro it is.

    1 or 2 years from now, if not even just a few months, people will realize and eventually come to terms with the fact that Gnome 3 is unavoidable to keep this wonderful distro up and running in the future.

    With MGSE and MATE you are giving us a quite simply brilliant thing to keep LM as user friendly as it is. For that you deserve our deepest respect and you surely have mine. Actually, I am always amazed with what wonderful ideas you come up with.

  313. I have posted about the inclusion of DuckDuckGO search engine and my post got censored. I also asked if it is just default and that the search engine can be changed by user anytime. Is it true?

    Google tracks you, duck duck go not! Google filters results for you personnally, duck duck go not!

  314. What about Compiz ? It’s one of the coolest things that showed up in a long while, it’s a shame Gnome 3 isn’t compatible with it. What will Compiz’s role be in Mint 12, if any ?

  315. How about creating two more Threads/Sub-threads in support/discussion forum under any category, as long as these two words are clearly visible to idiot newcomers like myself who keep on bouncing, bashing & banging their heads to No-Wall when visit this forum for the first time:

    http://forums.linuxmint.com/index.php

    And the two key words, regardless how you contextualize these into heading title, are; MGSE & MATE

    Atleast that way we can keep track & maintain the information under one unified resource.

  316. I heard that it is possible to hide top panel by edit the theme and change panel height to zero ,but I don’t know how to move indicators and clock to bottom panel.

  317. Please release a version of Linux Mint 12 based on Gnome 2. At least while MATE and MGSE aren’t ready yet, you can have a Gnome 2 based Mint and release the MATE and MGSE ones when you are ready.

    To be honest, I am not excited about MGSE and MATE. I just want Mint 12 based on Gnome 2, but with newer apps than Mint 11.

  318. @LordOfKnowledge: that wallpaper, if u add some stars and rockets looks almost like the debian squeeze wallpaper =)

  319. LOL, my post was deleted although I said nothing bad in it. You have helped me make up my mind about Mint, I will never use it, I will never recommend it, you are against free speech and against transparency.

  320. (。♥‿♥。)

    Thanks for keeping the good job, and propose for your user to follow new technology stuff ( gnome3 ) but with a desktop where they can feel at home. MGSE on the top of Gnome 3 seams to be a lovely desktop solution, and will keep my healthy my productivity.

    Thanks for that , and many encouragement to the Linux Mint team !

  321. oops, now I see my previous post, so I’ve made a mistake (probably I can’t see posts that await moderation), you can delete any post of mine if you want

  322. My comment #396 is still awaiting moderation after nearly 6 hours, but all after me is published up to 406. No need to publish this comment, but is it because I am writing from Sri Lanka?

  323. Ariya Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    # 396 November 6th, 2011 at 1:44 am

    Gnome 3 is nice and easy to work with, but it has a problem of not opening 2nd window of the same application. If what you are doing would help opening many windows of the same application, I’d be very happy. Gnome 2 had its heyday and its time for new technology. Can I install Mint 12RC and then upgrade it to Mint12 without downloading Mint 12? Or should I wait till Mint 12 is issued?

    Thanks Clem!

  324. I think the reason for the increase in usage of Mint is the continued use of Gnome 2. Why not continue using Gnome 2 for this release while MGSE and MATE are not ready? This way the number of users of Mint will continue to soar, and will establish itself as number 1 and make Ubuntu a distant second. When many people are using Mint, by that time MGSE and MATE will be ready and you can release them as Mint 13 and continue the big lead as number 1 distro.

  325. I heard that it is possible to remove top panel by edit the theme and change panel height to zero, but i don’t know how to move indicators and clock to bottom panel.

  326. ———————————————————————–I just thank God that Clem is not a benevolent dictator for life !!!!!!!
    ————————————————————————

  327. @Guy: he said using mate…which is a gnome 2 fork….it probably will be there but you are just kidding yourself…mate won’t survive very long nor will “fallback mode” for gnome 3….that is why Clem is going in the right direction now…Gnome 3 is here and Gnome 2 is dead (or at least dying anyway)and you will see fewer and fewer distros offering the option anymore…

    So basically, you have to adopt or just use old versions of mint, ubuntu or whatever for years to come…that is your choice…no point in tying up this comments section with what you WISH was the case…it isn’t…..so as was said before: Please Get Over It Already!!! Thank you….end of my responses to you…

  328. I use Linux Mint 11 and Ubuntu 11.10 (triple booted w/ Windows 7). I have been an Ubuntu fan for a couple of years. I don’t hate Unity – there are many things that I really like about it – but I also find Mint 11’s use of Gnome 2 very practical. I favor one panel at the top so am happy to hear that the Mint 12 bottom panel can be consolidated with the top one. The Mint 12 screenshot looks great and indicates that you are approaching Gnome 3 in the way that I had had hoped that you would. I tried Gnome 3 on Fedora and found that it looked great but felt it was tedious to use.

    My biggest concern with the new release is this – battery life. I get crazy battery life running Mint 11 on my Thinkpad T520 w/ i5 – around 5 hours of use compared to about 2.5 hrs w/ Ubuntu 11.10. My understanding is that this is a kernel issue that has yet to be resolved and am curious if the Mint team will address this. I look forward to upgrading but don’t want to sacrifice battery life.

    Thanks to the Mint team for a great distribution, keep up the good work!

  329. Linux Mint is THE best linux distro out there. Period. The reason is quite simple- it is the most easy to understand, customize, and also the most robust. The conservative approach of the Mint developers while maintaining a sort of elegance that is absent in other distros is something to value. Also Mint is practically bullet proof in reliability.
    I’ve been with Mint since 10, and its been a fixation on my PC. Itrust the Mint developers with what they are doing with 12. I only wish that some workaround can be done over the driver issues that we face with the monolithic linux kernel. Dual monitor issues with my Core i3 notebook are driving me nuts.

  330. I think this is an ok idea – But as for me, I’m still sticking with XFCE… so much lighter and elegant IMHO.

  331. I am very fond of Gnome for long time. I use gnome3 shell on fedora 15 for test and I really love it! I am very thrilled about Mint 12 with gnome3 coming soon.. can’t wait to look forward to use gnome 3 on Mint 12!!! 🙂

  332. Thank you SO much for not diving blindly into GNOME 3. I’m currently stuck with Windows 7 until I graduate college next summer (for Adobe reasons) and I’m playing with many Linux distro’s in virtual boxes to see which I like, and which I’ll switch to. Ubuntu, unfortunately, is no good anymore and the huge amount of users who no longer like it and feel comfortable with it have moved to Mint. Keep these new users by giving us the options to keep what we like in Mint 11. That’s how Mint will easily take the #1 distro spot.

    Been using Mint since Gloria, and I still love it as much as ever. Looking forward to using the new tech in Mint 12!

  333. I’ll admit, I’m one of those who actually likes Gnome Shell. However, I can totally understand why many people wouldn’t like it in its current form. MGSE sounds like the best solution for all, which reminds me of why I love Mint. The devs think of everybody.

    MATE really just feels like a temporary solution to ease the transition until Gnome 3 matures, so I can’t see it lasting that long. However, I think it’s a great idea to include this as an option for now until the dust settles. Props to Clem and the Team for doing everything they can in order to make Mint 12 as awesome as it can be!

    @Guy: I’ll just repeat what everyone else has said so far. MATE is Gnome 2 with a different name. Think of it as Gnome 2.34. The only reason for the change in name is that the Gnome devs are no longer maintaining it; therefore the only option was to fork the project. Also, it doesn’t matter which distro you switch to. All of them will be dropping Gnome 2 in their future releases. In fact, Mint is the only distro I know so far that’s keeping it maintained (in the form of MATE).

  334. I think what you guys are doing here is absolutely fantastic — walking a very pragmatic line between the future and not annoying current users too much.

    I’m also fond of the fact that your work serves as a rather direct counterexample to the widely-held perception that it’s impossible to substantially customise gnome-shell. I really look forward to seeing the code when it’s done.

    Finally, thanks for staying positive, constructive and open minded and avoiding the bashing of any other desktops.

  335. Netbooks : given the basic nature of their hardware, will the current Intel Atom based netbooks be able to take advantage of Gnome 3 ?
    Will my humble N570 be limited to the fallback environment, or should I be looking at KDE as an alternative desktop ?

    Gothic

  336. It’s quite astonishing as how everyone is amazed, excited etc about the next version of Mint, aka Mint 12, when you think they always had just one panel and preferred that, it’s (was now?) “the better setup” etc. But now when you look at the screenshot here, you see two panels and now it’s marvelous etc Quite funny. 🙄

  337. Clem,
    Linux Mint is by far my favorite distro. One concern I have with most distros right now that use Gnome 3 is that multiple displays are not handled very well. I have 4 displays and have a difficult time getting things to work right. As Mint 12 goes to Gnome 3.x, do you see support for multiple displays being part of the future for Mint?

  338. Hello Mint, I simply love your work, but I think to attract the greatest amount of people on Linux, you should improve the integration of video games on Linux, as most of the people who use computers are young. And I think if all the communities join together to create a distro, can creat a great distro!

    Thanks again for what you do! Long life to Linux!

    Sorry for bad English.

  339. Cool, and whats going on with LMDE or the KDE Line (The Switch to the Debian base? I’m looking forward for that 🙂

    Right now i use the LMDE with the Standard-KDE configured (Lanzelot)
    and are very pleased with it, fast, stabel, Plasma working well,…!
    please don’t loose focus on that!

    Lux

  340. As exciting as this sounds I fear I will not be able to join in the fun as my Radeon 6790 doesn’t seem to play nice with kernel 3.x.x I end up with a garbled screen which blinks then puts the monitor to sleep.

  341. I’m glad that one can still get the pure gnome-shell experience. Fingers crossed, this may be what brings me back to my beloved debian-like environment 🙂

  342. As a KDE user I don’t care much about the GNOME-based Mint Mothership but I was curious to see what Clem is planning for Mint 12. I have to say MGSE looks like the perfect answer to the users’ complaints about GNOME 3 and the rather obvious need to not hold on to an abandoned DE. I’ll be watching to see how the users respond to it and to how the folks over at mintCast react to this news.

    And as someone who’s loving KDE nailed on top of LMDE I’m looking forward to the release of the next Mint KDE release, and I know that with Mint 12 getting finished it will hopefully be coming sooner rather than later. Not that I’m trying to rush anyone, mind you.

    Great work, Clem!

  343. @Clem,

    Thanks for the update and work on this, and for the announcement coming on my birthday 😉

    About the screenshot, the thing that I like least is the fading icons in the taskbar. I like the menu, though it still needs some polishing visually. Lastly if it turns out possable to remove the top pannel, then I think it should be a choice that can be made in the mint settings.

    -Sonic

  344. Great! it looks great so far.. I am looking forward to run it… as an idea, it would be nice to have a small ‘preview’ window for the applications open (running) on the bottom panel when the mouse pointer selects them, not just the name showing as is now.. it would give it that edge to new feel and the latest..Other than that ‘wish’ congrats for such an excellent job! I am sure we are going to love Mint 12…
    Thanks in advanced!!!

  345. is there a way to have fixed windows placement in gnome-shell? like you can in compiz. this is quite essential to me.

    presumeably compiz works with MATE ?

  346. I really like what I’m reading here and the general philosophy of Linux Mint. I’m actually thinking of switching from Ubuntu after many years of faithful use. I’ve got one small question: Will the emblems for files in Nautilus be available in this MATE/Gnome3 mix? That’s something that I’m extremely annoyed about missing in Ubuntu now – it drives me mad that I can no longer mark files as already read/viewed, or as favourites, which was unbelievably useful for me – and that’s enough reason for me to ditch Ubuntu if Mint offered this functionality. I know it’s a Gnome3 thing (why they dropped this I have no idea), but maybe it can somehow still be available in Linux Mint…

  347. To those so emotional about the move to Gnome 3- Mint has no choice but to evolve. I’ve lost track of the number of operating systems I have used since DOS 1.x. Some I was quite happy with and others not so much. One thing is certain: there is no looking back. Technology moves forward regardless of my personal preferences.

  348. The top panel is a limitation… I’m not sure we can remove it…“??? “The Gnome development team might initially hate us for coming up with MGSE“???

    Good god, even a Microsoft user can control his task bar, and a Microsoft developer can completely change the look and feel of Windows without friction from the evil lair in Redmond.

    You may have to change your tag-line, Clem. The Gnome development team seeks to limit user freedom, and that two panel solution is about as elegant as Unity is unifying. I suggest, “From Dependence Came Bloat.”

    No offense, Fanboys, but the main post asks for user opinions and that’s mine. I love Katya, but Gnome 3… If you’re gonna put lipstick on that pig, put it on thick, like tdockery97 did. Maybe then I’ll invest in the new video card I’ll need.

  349. Add Duck Duck Go support and stop censoring posts.

    Edit by admin: We don’t censor posts, we remove agressive content and spam, and for comments like yours, because it’s your first one it requires a manual moderation and that just takes time.

  350. @Tim (#176) – You don’t have to log off before shutting down in Gnome 3 shell. Once you drop down the “user” menu hold down the ‘alt’ key and “Suspend” will turn into “Power Off” at the bottom of that menu. Clicking on “Power off” will give you a dialog box allowing you to shut down or restart.

  351. I’ve recently moved from Ubuntu Natty to Linux Mint 11 because Ubuntu Oneric is pretty unusable.

    The only thing I still find interesting about Ubuntu is their App Store, but since I’m not going to use Ubuntu anymore would be pretty odd to develop apps for Ubuntu. I was wondering if Linux Mint is going to have their own App Store.

  352. Hi Clem,
    Is Mint 12 going to have a kde version? because I’d love to see LMDE’s KDE edition in the future.
    Thanks in advance.

  353. @Kirk M: Yeah, I found that out after I commented:)
    What’s even better, I found out that MGSE contains an extension that makes the shut down menu visible all the time! Just shows how great the Mint devs are!

  354. I can’t wait to try looks and sounds very good!!!! I love Mint is fantastic!!!! So far is first on the distrowatch.com! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

  355. You know, this seem to rather well thought out. I can respect that, and like this kind of insight.

    I do have a few questions, MATE seems like a rather sad stop-gap measure to me and I don’t see it getting any traction unless you are offering it downstream to other distro (Deb, Fedora, etc.). So I have to ask, is there a long-term plan with MATE with an existence beyond Mint or is it what I think it seems like, a fallback to Gnome 2 (the same Gnome 2 that doesn’t seem to have much of a future anymore)?

    MGSE seems to be the same as Gnome 3 extensions (which does have some). I have played with a few on Fedora… and I find myself not screaming at Gnome 3 as much due to some of them (like the one for a functional task bar that I have). But MGSE is different, and looks to be separate from the extensions, I have to wonder if that is the plan to brake the methodology that Gnome 3 has or will MGSE (in feature and functions) and extensions merge at some point?

  356. This is exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you Clem. Mint 11 suffered issues that were not the fault of Mint team, and Mint Debian is improving but not ready to replace the main edition for everyone yet. This is EXACTLY was I requested from you and what others have requested from you, and from the looks of it you did not dissapoint!

    Thank you. Your work is saving the future of Linux. Im serious.

  357. A technical good decision. I think we like to hack the UI in JavaScript.

    E.g. you can change the button labels of the Shell through Alt-F2 “lg” and then the pipette on “Your Name”. Just inspect it (like JS “dir(smthg)” and call the fuction for setting a new label 🙂
    Then record your screencast 😀 Ctrl-Shift-Alt-R, wasn’t it?

  358. there is no better than gnome 2.32, or mate for now. gnome3 because it is a great arbe without fruit, and catastroffique Unit is a large empty container, which a lot of buzzing.
    with a single mouse click, I can launch an application in GNOME 2.32. I want change for the better but
    améleoré mate you win the frame. but do not forget the other choice, as it has made us ubuntu

    I apologize for the broken English, because I am a berber

  359. This will be the Version I’ll install when my version (Isadora) runs out. I’m really curious for Lisa. 🙂

  360. Keep up the good work, it seems nowdays linux mint is the only distro who listens to the users . Thank you.

  361. touch! Please give some love to improving the “ease of use” of tablets.!! 11.10 is a bit different from 11.04. Please, requested with all respect..

    – gnome 3, and the shell are awesome. Just a little more polish with the touch of style from thy crew and it will further the stellar rep of MINT! 🙂

  362. Linux Mint is at transition right now. It looks like some nightmare cross-breed of Gnome 2.x with Gnome 3. It has top panel of gnome 3 and weird, “non-gnome 2, but gnome 2” nightmarish looking- bottom panel that supposedly should resemble Mint panel (which was crap because it couldn’t even pull down bookmarked folders from nautilus. Shame).

    Classic GNOME 2 had 2 panels, so you had clean space for switching your opened windows (which represented applications). It did not mix anything, ie running apps where not mixed with app launcher (and had nice categories readily available, so you did not have to remember name of the app you wanted to run). And running apps/windows were not mixed with favourite/bookmarked folders (unlike AWN).

    Nothing was hiding anywhere, nothing was annoyingly sliding in or out or disappearing, thus nothing was annoying people and was clean and non-fiddly.

    It required the least amount of clicks to get the things done.

    Having bottom panel for just currently running apps/windows for the purpose of switching between them was great. Thus System Tray at the top right corner could have everything in plain view (including music player icon or Transmission -vide Fedora 14- just right there. You clicked once to restore app- no hiding or integrating sound mixer with music player, plus unlike Linux Mint it had a CLICKABLE transmission icon in the tray- if you wanted).

    Having all things in tray (unlike widgets or clock without day of the week and date or weather applet) was just a glance away without the need of any clicking or minimizing a running app. Multitasking babe!!! Always in plain view.

    Plus workspace switcher didn’t have to be hidden for there was no lack of space. And for no lack of space there wasn’t any need of piling open app on top of each other like in KDE panel.

    Now its fiddly diddly crap with launching apps and workspace switching. Fiddly diddly with too much clicking, hiding, clicking, clicking, typing, sliding in and out, and badly multi clicking execution of applications (pin them all to favourite panel and you have massive clutter in unity/apple/awn/whatever panel, etc, etc.)

    Stupid fiddly, diddly crap.

    And you cannot switch to KDE, because its too buggy (Sabayon, Chackra, Kubuntu). Plus nothing compares to SYNAPTIC. APT and SYNAPTIC. No more no less. Otherwise switch to Windows or go home.

    Morover KDE makers do not grasp the idea of workspaces and have this thing called desktop folder. WTF!? Activities wouldn’t be necessary if they haven’t forgotten what the workspaces are or what they’re for. Plus activities are confusing for 99.99% of users. Users are always right.

    But for the sake of SPONSORSHIP both Gnome and KDE made the huge crap, while everything (with a few bugs) was already invented.

    Although you can still get some normal desktop and feeling and be stop from nervous breakedown, its not the same. I mean you can still get the old experience with Xfce 4.8.

    You can exchange a few app – like music player for Rhythmbox and Risretto for Eye of Gnome and Thunar for Nautilus (two pane interface plus tabs, although unresizable icons in the left pane -vide Thunar and Dolphin).

    Check the background of this youtubue channel for what I mean (requires vertical resolution of your screen of at least 900, press F11 in your browser):

    youtube.com/CivilKnowsEvenBetter

    At the moment due to fglrx not working on my machine (neither through jockey, or x-swat ppa, or maunual (both beta and stable), after 4 years of exclusively on GNU/Linux, I am stuck with Windows 7.

    And I cannot use Kernels lower than 3.0 because of fiddly installation of Ralink WiFi drivers, which would fail probably anyway.

    Written on old laptop with Mint 11.

  363. Did you put right-click back in? Minimize? “Shutdown…” Frickin’ GNOME3 artsy panzy frickin’ morons. It’s not YOUR job to force your frickin’ desktop paradigm on me. Linux is about choices and power and advanced users with a brain who can handle options. THANK YOU MINT!

  364. Clem and team, I made at least two mistakes lately. One was trying Ubuntu and a couple others last week. The other was going to the Canonical convention in Orlando. Under all the smiles and encouragement to keep up the hard work, there were signs of frustration. I came back to Mint while others you mentioned came stampeding to Mint. My only concern is the resources needed to run the latest Mint. My own machine can handle it but so many love linux for what it does on a minimal (older) machine. Please keep up the hard work! It reflects in the great Mint evolution!

  365. Can someone help me pick out a better name than PB? I think LordOfKnowledge is awesome, but somebody already has the cohones to take that name. I’m thinking AmoebaOfKnowledge or maybe LordOfNotSmartitude would be good. I’m open for suggestions.

  366. @PB, you can’t have “Professional Crastinator” — that’s mine, if I ever get around to using it. How about “Smarticus”?

  367. Oh, and to be more on-topic:

    @clem and all the Mint team, you are definitely maintaining the right direction. I’m one of those “appliance” users that just wants to install, run reliably, do my browsing, shopping, documenting, media-ing and othering with a supported, maintained, friendly OS. LM10 (gnome) 64-bit has been that on this machine. Haven’t tried LMDE yet, but the idea of having updates vetted by the Mint experts appeals to me.

    I don’t know if my programming skills are up to contributing in that way to LM — so I’ve donated a few times the other way. Hope it’s helped. You guys have saved me so much time by making my bootup and shutdown WAY faster than XP SP3, it was worth every penny! As long as LM is kept easy and reliable, I’ll be donating again.

    w8abz aka “ProfessionalCrastinator”

  368. As usual Clem you are as cool as can be. Truly if an artists work is an expression and representation of the artist then Mint shows you and your team to be as cool, calm and dedicated as ever. More power to you all.
    For work I have to use other desktops but Mint has been my personal choice since Mint 6. Its grown and evolved beautifully and I have no doubt it will continue to do so.
    For the new desktop I’ll be excited to see what you come up with. There seem to be a few paradigm shift in the world of IT at the moment so I’m looking forward to your expression of it.
    Keep it up and thanks.

  369. “From our point of view here at Linux Mint, we’re not sure they’re right, and we’re not sure they’re wrong either. What we’re sure of, is that if people aren’t given the choice they will be frustrated and our vision of an Operating System is that your computer should work for you and make you feel comfortable. So with this in mind, Gnome 3 in Linux Mint 12 needs to let you interact with your computer in two different ways: the traditional way, and the new way, and it’s up to you to decide which way you want to use.”

    It’s statements like this that remind me that the Mint dev team is one few OS developer groups that truly understands their user base. Thanks you so much!

  370. Awesome!!! I’ve been successful recently in getting a few Windows Friends to use Mint and was concerned that they’d ditch it on the next release because of Gnome 3. Gosh, I’d ditch Linux too if Gnome 3 was the only desktop shell! Way to go Mint!!

    I’m so excited I want to kiss my keyboard … since simply touching it isn’t enough at the moment! Hahaha …

    ILM = I love Mint!

  371. As soon as I wrap up this client’s project, I am switching from Ubuntu 10.10 to Mint 12. I uninstalled Ubuntu 11 because of Unity and not liking that direction. Heard and expect great things with Mint.

  372. “Society can accept change, one at a time… too many changes at a time creates chaos…..” – a dialogue from the movie “The Prestige”.

    Still change is what brings progress!!!

    Great work Linux mint team.

    The bottom bar looks cluttered and disposed. Is there any way that you can group similar windows and applications into groups with only one icon visible on the bottom bar. (like Windows 7), that way it will look more neat, crisp and elegant.

    Of course Linux mint is the most elegant….

  373. Now this is the way to handle the new Gnome. And it pays of, you’ll see. With the 40% extra users Mint got from the Ubuntu 11.10 debacle already(and other distro’s which use Gnome 3/Shell) I am sure it will only be more when it turns out Mint12 is just what people want: a serious desktop without the Gnome3/Shell or Unity interface which turns their computer into a gadget machine.
    Now also Microsoft is making this huge error with their new Windows 8, it might well be more users leave Windows to find Mint. Especially in offices where people do serious work with their computers.
    So, I can’t wait to test it. Keep up the good work and you’ll it pays of.

  374. Congratulations Clem and team
    You actually did the best overall solution to keep everyone happy.
    I was wondering if you would do all this through extensions and you did.
    Very good 🙂
    This should keep everyone happy now and to give us all the choice of both ways is by far the best choice out of all distro’s I’ve seen yet.
    I’m actually excited to take this for a spin once you get it complete.
    I might even come up with a special minty theme for this one 🙂

  375. What about mint4Win? Could it be possible to make it available in upcoming release? I want to use it alongside Win.

  376. This is why I prefer Mint on every machine I use. The work, effort and the solution makes me excited for the future of linux mint. thanks guys, great work…

  377. Blah Blah GNOME 3 ( 2 or Shell )…
    Blah Blah Unity…

    I got so sick of hearing it I went to Mint 11 LXDE from Ubuntu. Like I need eye-candy for my desktop…
    Enough of making it look “pretty” already. Stability and security should be the prime focus for any new release. Would save downloading a pile of “fixes”/updates every other week ( reminds me of another OS )…

  378. I’d like to voice support to the idea of implementing a fixed desktop grid layout in Mint.

    Personally, it’s still as much of a tremendous productivity boost as it was, and this is after using Gnome3, KDE3 and Gnome2 on a daily basis, for some months (it was just Gnome2 before, and FVWM2, XFCE and Enlightenment before that).

  379. Dear Clem,

    I’m a university student, without a credit card. Even if had one, I would be unable to justify to my mom donating any money to your project, when she is covering the cost of my tuition. Further, my area of study (physics and mathematics) requires most of my time, and thus I cannot donate any time to Linux Mint either. Therefore, I cannot give you either of the two things that would help you most.

    But I want you to know that what you’ve created is something special. I don’t mind Gnome 3, but I’m extremely excited for your extensions. I switched to back at Katya, and I’ve been in love with it ever since. It’s the only Linux distribution that I can safely show to people as a REAL alternative to Windows, without feeling guilty.

    Ubuntu is nice, but your focus on usability is what makes you special. You’ve made levelheaded, intelligent decisions the whole time I’ve been with Mint. That’s why I’ll be switching to back from Ubuntu to Mint, once Lisa is released.

    One thing I can do is use the RC, and file a few bug reports. Hopefully, this small contribution will suffice until I am in a position to donate something more substantial.

    This is why I use Linux. Good luck with Lisa.

    Sincerely,
    Matt

  380. Nice keep it going! With those ideeas Linux Mint will be the number 1 on the Linux Desktops.I glad to hear someone’s thinking at the normal users.I can’t wait for the final release…

  381. Hi looking to test 12th release look nice to me

    still using Linux Minth 10th great still happy

    can i do just an upgrade intead of new install when the 12th come out

    Thanks Minth team great team and great Os to use No complain …

    Keep it up God Bless …..

  382. I read and reread the preview of Mint12 until I understood clearly all the ideas involved. Everything sounds great and beautiful. I’m eagerly looking forward to put my hands on the first iso…

    Thank you Clem and the team for the wonderful ideas and the hard work!

  383. “MGSE” (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions)

    I appreciate the contribution but, instead of being so self-centric, couldn’t you just call it “Gnome Shell Extensions” or other sort of ‘generic’ name?
    Do all contributions from the other distros (to which you obviously owe a LOT) have their names stamped on it?

    Anyway, it looks great, good work.

  384. I see that scorici. Something is seriously wrong there. If it is true, then I certainly hope we’re not going to become a proprietary OS. O_O

  385. I like what I see! While I’m using Ubuntu 11.10 on which I’ve customized with the Cairo Dock, I’ll definitely be trying out Mint ‘Lisa’ when released. Good job combining Gnome 3 with the usability of Gnome 2.

  386. @w8abz and @Ken’ichi,

    Those are great suggestions. They will definitely be on the short list. Perhaps a combination such as SmarticusOfWrongburg.

  387. MGSE sounds like exactly what I need if GNOME 2.3x is not available. 🙂
    The screenshot is also attractive I must say, but my question here is will it be configurable enough?

    Anyways, thanks Clem and team, you guys always come up with the ideas that suits users needs.
    Cheers,
    Sayan Acharjee

  388. thanks guys. This is exactly what i miss with other gnome 3 distros. Looks like i will have to move from fedora/redhat after 12 years.

    keep up the good work

  389. so its 4 days to wait? 😛
    cant wait.
    and i do love the top panel there.
    but people who complain much about wallpaper and panels. They are all configurable. except u cant move top panel correctly i think, but im sure it will be figured out soon how to do it.

    i myself allways enjoyed 2 panels. so i can fit all my stuff on it.
    dockbarx is also ported to gnome 3. only thing i need to find is nice replacement for panflute applet. there are some gnome 3 extensions similar to that but not really same functional.

    keep up the good work Mint Team

  390. Linux Mint have made the best decisions over the last year, so I believe that they gonna do again.

    I just hope my video card have gained support in the last few months, or Fallback Mode will be my new friend.

  391. I’m looking forward to 12 as I experience application crashes in the panel quite often on startup. It’s wonderful you want to give us the option of desktop, but I think the few (three major) problems in the shiny Gnome 3 will become a serious obstacle in the future.

    Kind regards from
    Chris, Denmark

  392. …im hoping this won’t be the end of computers…im used to do whatever i want within the possibilities of the os…now im feeling limitied to the poor functionality of desctop manager…hopefully this won’t turn to get linuxos as app on store…it seems like lose of functionality for a better look…okay…it is easier to use…in fact…it is…less functional…

  393. Linux Mint 12 is going to be HUGGEEEEEE! Thankyou Clem for All your SANE decisions with the Mint Project. I see no reason why Mint 12 will not overtake Ubuntu after this release… You guys do a GREAT job and this is the most exciting Mint release to date! Keep an eye out for my Mint 12 review on my channel
    http://www.youtube.com/Linux4UnMe

  394. After reading most of the people here..
    It seems like:
    *Most people is sorry to see gnome 2 go
    *happy to find a way to deal with gnome 3
    *do not want the top bar in MGSE

    -Some people like me think that its a good development, BUT
    Mint 10 & 11 has losts of very annoying bugs. Will that be fixed before the new Mint 12 (or in the)?

    I love new OS and some progress, but you have to make it stable.
    And sorry to say, sometimes it has been quite hard to convince a WinDOS user to go over to a somwhat sluggish Mint.
    Hope things get fixed ..

    Still I will of course try it out..(looking forward too) 😉

  395. I don’t particularly like what I see in the screenshot. This application menu doesn’t look as good as Mintmenu or Shell activities/menu. My favourite setting would be to keep Gnome Shell activities as it is and remove dash. For those who like Mintmenu I’d suggest porting it to Gnome3 and give an option to use it as an appleat in the bottom panel. Besides would be nice to be able to add to the upper (Gnome Shell) pannel activators to favorite programs (as an alternative to/instead of dash). I whish I could also have checkgmail, tomboy and glipper somewhere on the upper panel.
    I want icons/activators on upper panel that open new window of an application even if it is already open. In Gnome shell “Clicking on the application icon will launch it if it is not running, and will open the last used window of that application if it is already running.” – I don’t like it. I’d like to open new window of Nautilus every time I click on the activator. Besides Nautilus Elementary would be a thousand times better than this version in Gnome 3, which is to simplistic for me. Anyway, I appreciate your hard work and creativity.

  396. Would it be possible to (or even better, could you) change the color of the menu and bottom panel to match the “traditional” Linux Minty gray. The black looks jarring when seen against the grayish top panel.

  397. I see some concern over the license for MATE. Perhaps Clem or another member of the team can email the person who created the fork and clarify things. I am pretty sure that all of GNOME 2 was under the GPL, so any fork must also under a GPL license the moment it is distributed to the world at large, or else he’d be violating it. Keeping it “proprietary” (a vague term, honestly) is only allowed if he keeps the fork under wraps within a specific group, right?
    If my understanding of the way GPL works is incorrect, please inform me.

  398. Brilliant how you are blending the good parts of the Gnome2 experience into Gnome3! I have a few questions though:

    * Will it still be possible to run components of other desktops on Gnome3? Currently I often run LXPanel within Gnome for development purposes.

    * Will I still be able to add my own search engines?

  399. Wish MGSE hide that upper bar by default, so that Linux Mint can continue to be a Windows-like GNOME distro 🙂

  400. Yeah, the point is, whether the underlying DE is GNOME2 or GNOME3, Linux Mint should continue to have a Windows-like single-taskbar look 🙂

  401. Looks like I am coming a little late in the discussion, but I would like to chime in, if I may. So far 557 posts in less than 3 days–Wow! (And I’ve read them all.) And this morning is the first time I have seen Mint #1 on DistroWatch’s 1-month, 3-month *and* 6-month lists.

    Clem, I saw your post to teapot saying “The top panel is a limitation from Gnome 3,” but I, too, prefer one panel (on the bottom) with one menu. I hope this is possible at some point. My main distro is LM 9 – 32-bit Gnome, so I have more than a year to contemplate moving to LMDE – 64-bit (with who knows which DE/WM). I can simple wait for features to move into LMDE while testing out a few other Mint flavors.

    As always, Clem & Team are listening to their user-base, then making thoughtful and reasonable technical decisions. This is the very definition of computer professionals. Keep it up, and thank you! All the best.

  402. Thanks for untying the Gordian Knot! I’ll be one of the people leaving Ubuntu for Mint, as you seem to be actually supplying what users want.

  403. Mint looks interesting. I am considering switching to it when version 12 comes out, my only concern is to get full disc encryption working. I hope you will add this in the installer at some point.

  404. I’m one of those that migrated from Ubuntu with the release of their
    Unity malarcy.
    Been loving and enjoying Mint ever since, and it looks like i can continue doing it 🙂

    Looks and sounds great!

  405. No! I dislike it a lot!
    Just think for a second about this:
    Most of todays screens are wide, 16:9 or 16:10, and you are making a shell that will have two horizontal bars, this on a shell that doesn’t hide the title bar, which seems to remain particularly fat as in the original gnome shell release.
    Just count them on a browser for instance.
    Two horizontal bars, title bar, menu bar, tab bar, address bar, and possibly even a status and bookmarks bar. Will feel like we’re looking at the page through the slit from a knight’s helmet.

  406. Clem correctly states the problem with both Gnome 3 and Shuttleworth’s Exodus (Unity). He says, “It’s application-centric, not task-centric (you switch between applications, not windows)

    Of the the two, I find Gnome 3 to be more intuitive and less confusing than Shuttleworth’s Exodus. One thing I absolute detest is the retched “wiper” on the left hand side of Exodus. At least the favorites launcher in Gnome 3 doesn’t annoyingly keep moving in and out. Another issue with Exodus is the menus in the top bar that change with the application in focus. This is a Macintosh idea that was implemented years ago. I used Macs for many years in the school system and enjoyed them very much. However the Exodus implementation is not quite correct. For example in Firefox, instead of the menus showing, the name of the web page that is in focus shows, This is totally stupid and moronic, because you are already looking at that page in the first place.

    In short Exodus provides an unnecessarily complex, confusing, and clumsy work environment. Gnome 3 is somewhat better, but still falls very short because you cannot see at a glance what tasks you have running. And it’s really tough to switch between two different running applications.

    Clem’s Linux Mint MGSE extension will hopefully provide a reasonable solution. It has a more traditional menu set up, and continues to allow users to easily switch between and manage the tasks they have open.

  407. I agree with Guy. I don’t need to run Gnome 2 and 3 (as MATE and MGSE) on the same system. I just want a working desktop. Can you please do a Gnome 2.32 release simultaneous with the standard release? At least, I would get to enjoy the Mint I know and love for six more months. Then, I would be willing to try Gnome 3 with MGSE in Mint 13 which I believe would be more stable by then.

    @Guy: please don’t be too emotional. You are turning off people. We need more people on our side, not more enemies.

    I hope to hear from more people who want a Gnome 2.32 edition of Linux Mint 12 Lisa.

  408. I’m here because I *loathe* Unity. I have been using Ubuntu as my main machine since 8.04 (XP in a VB for extremely rare compatibility emergencies), and have 10.04 set up exactly how I want it (with a single panel, Main Menu and the wonderful Maximus together merely nibbling at screen real-estate). Much useful third-party software (notably Scribus) is no longer supporting 10.04, and I have acquired unsupported hardware (the bluetooth and wired internet functions on my Celeron netbook – I’m managing with a bluetooth dongle and wireless) so I’m looking where to go next … and Ubuntu seems to have *lost the plot completely* with the utterly ghastly Unity. I’ll be checking out Lubuntu 11.10 and Mint 12. Congrats on knocking Ubuntu off the top spot.

  409. @Zork

    I agree totally that an OS should focus on stability and security. And certainly the PC I use at work is Plain Jane. But the eye candy is important to so many other people–right or wrong. There are plenty of Linux options that offer stability and security and ONLY those components. The Mint team certainly has the ability to compile such a release. However, in the interest of making their distro as appealing to as many people as possible, and move forward, and grow, and so-on, bla bla bla, they can’t JUST rely on stability and security. While stability and security are incorporated, they have to incorporate components that are going to attract a larger user base. If we are a part of the crowd that doesn’t like that, then move on, or build on. It’s an incredibly simple concept……really really simple.

  410. This looks very promising. It would give me back the chnace to set up my desktop as I need it. I could use ubuntu and install Gnome Shell additonally but from user forums over here in Germany I learned that certain components of unity and GS may trigger conflicts. So I think its much better to have the basis of ubuntu – cleansed from the unity rubbish – and have a modern desktop on top of it.

  411. @Bamm

    These questions are purely out of curiosity, and not to fuel the fire, but is it just the latest Linux Kernel that you would like to run with a Gnome 2 release? Do you have peripherals or something that won’t currently work with an older Kernel? If your current machine is working fine right now, couldn’t you just wait for even release 13 or 14 to really give time for Clem to refine the desktop? Mint 9 doesn’t reach end of life until April of 2013, and it is still a smokin’ desktop. I know, because I’m still on it (The Volare) In other words, what significant benefit do you expect to get out of Mint 12 with Gnome 2 release? If you just like the excitement of change, that’s fine, but I really don’t think the Mint team has the resources for that. Why not find an old hard drive or an old PC and spin version 12 up as is. Heck, I wouldn’t even worry about Mate or MGSE. Just dive right into Gnome 3 and see what gives. Who knows, you may love it.

  412. Although some of my comments may have been extreme the last couple of days for which I apologize. I stick by my statement as a GNOME 2.32 version of the release was promised.

    @ Bamm

    I wholeheartedly agree. I want a stable Desktop and no more.

    A complete switch to GNOME 3 and MGSE in Mint 13 LTS would make far more sense so it has an extra six months to mature

  413. Cool!! Thanks for listening to the community, this is where linux mint overtakes Ubuntu, Hearty wishes for Mint to become the most used linux desktop…

  414. @PB

    Completely agree with you, PB!

    I would rather Clem & Team work on improving MGSE for Mint 13 than try to make a Mint 12 Gnome 2 release. I will try Mint 12, and if I find that MGSE isn’t working for me, I’ll switch back to Mint 11 and wait for Mint 13. Nothing wrong with 11 (or 10 or 9 for that matter).

    I agree that Gnome 3, on it’s own, is a PITA, but I wouldn’t mind a mix between Gnome 2 and Gnome 3, and that is what Mint 12 is promising.

    The best way to avoid change is to just stick with what you have.

  415. Wow, MGSE looks great. I hate the app-centric Gnome 3 shell because I love to multitask. It’s nice to see a more traditional style task-centric desktop that works on top of Gnome 3, rather than trying to cling to Gnome 2, which is outdated. I’ll definitely have to try this once the RC is released. 🙂

  416. My only question now (and I may have missed the answer) is – Will Gnome3 + MGSE support multiple X-servers?

  417. Good move to let users decide on the interface. Forcing new ways of doing things on users is usually a bad idea, and I think you guys have realized that. There’s a lot to be said for, ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’.

    Keep up the good work. I look forward to the next release of Mint.

  418. Ever since Unity, I’ve been debating whether to move to Mint or not. Ubuntu 12.04 only having Unity and Mint having MGSE has tipped me. I’ll be moving to Mint 12 along with 14 (yes 14!) of my families/friends machines that I maintain.

    Ubuntu are going to lose a lot of users and quite rightly too.

  419. I love the way you are interested about the point of view every user could have. Your success is a fruit of these considerations with users and I was glad to read the DistroWatch Weekly this morning because you share with us everything and this success feels like ours too.

    Anyway, I think one of the big problems with Unity and Gnome 3 Shell is the lack of customization or the hard time you could spend hacking the software so you can have it the way you want it. While I think it’s a great idea that you ease Gnome 3 providing us with MGSE I hope you could help us to customize our OS with some simple graphical tools or howtos to get things the way we want to.

  420. Tomorrow is Fedora release!
    Will it be any good?
    I love these competitions….(although they are bad for Linux)

  421. keep up the great work. I am willing to wait for another quality mint release. You haven’t let me down yet.

  422. I was so put off by Gnome 3 that I moved to KDE. I used to love Gnome 2, but now I am very impressed with KDE so I think I will stay with it.

    I didn’t install Mint 11 because I didn’t like the stupid Ubuntu window sliders and was disappointed that Mint would use them.

    I am very impressed that Mint has made the effort to fix the mess that Gnome 3 is. Keep up the good work.

    It is also terrific to see Mint at the top of the Distrowatch list. I can see Ubuntu falling even further too.

    I’m looking forward to KDE Mint. Thank you.

  423. Please, keep Gnome 2 as this is one of the reasons why I moved from Ubuntu to Mint. I’m still using version 9 and I will probably wait for next LTS version. However, I might use v12…

  424. Looking at Distrowatch.org , Linux Mint now has surpassed Ubuntu. LInux Mint is on number 1! Mes felicitations!

    Having used Ubuntu since 5.04 I was disgusted by the new desktop limitations.I tried Kubuntu, it is very unstable.I tried Fedora 15, wifi issues, Fedora 16 beta the same way. I tried Suse, the latest RC,it is simply not for me. I seem to be a die hard Gnome 2.x user. Eventually I tried Linux Mint and I did really like it being the best alternative for Ubuntu.

    What I really do not like is the modified google search results page.

  425. @Guy: Please reread Clem’s September Monthly Stats post.

    “We’re *likely* to release two separate editions, one for Gnome 2.32 and one for Gnome 3.2. We’re also working in cooperation with the MATE project (which is a fork of Gnome 2) at the moment to see if we can make both desktops compatible in an effort to let you run both Gnome 2 (or MATE) and Gnome 3 on the same system, either in Linux Mint 12, or for the future.”

    Clem said that they were LIKELY to release two separate editions. This was not guaranteed since they were also exploring supporting the GNOME 2 Desktop with the MATE fork. Obviously they went with Option 2.

  426. @ Mad Professor

    Whilst I would disagree competitition is bad for Linux. The Fedora 16 release looks to be more stable than Fedora 15 as GNOME 3 has had time to integrate in to the Fedora system. I have spun Fedora 16 Beta on LiveCD and it seems OK but not remarkable.

    I do hope inegrating GNOME 3 in to the Mint system doesn’t cause instability as if it does Mint will most likely slip down the rankings from its current position of no.2

    Expecting so much from a drastic change over one release I see as nothing but suicide and could cause considerable damage to Mint overall.

    @ Clem

    I plead to you to offer a GNOME 2.32 release as well as you originally said that you would during this transitional period

  427. Increible, qué genial idea. Lo he probado en Ubuntu 11.10 x64 y funciona estupendamente. Era una de las cosas que no me gustaban en Gnome 3 Shell: no podía manejar ni las ventanas ni las áreas de trabajo con comodidad. Ahora tengo toda la potencia de Gnome 3 Shell y la usabilidad de Gnome 2 allí donde shell flaqueaba. Fantástico que sea una extensión y no tener que cambiar todo un entorno. Seguid así chicos… estoy deseando darle una parada a Ubuntu…. Espero que LMDE lo incorpore pronto…. porque será entonces cuando me decida a formatear el PC y olvidarme de Ubuntu.

  428. @ Guy
    I didn’t like the beta release of fedora 16 at all, had too many issues with it, but i’ll give it another try once the final is released, not giving it much hope though

  429. For those who say things like Gnome 2 is dead, Gnome Shell is the future, stop clinging to ancient tech, etc., I would totally agree… *IF* Gnome 3 was an improvement on Gnome 2. While I do love some of the features they’ve given Gnome 3 (dynamic virtual desktops and interactive notification system), in overall feature-for-feature comparison, Gnome 2 is much more usable, hardware-friendly, and configurable.

    I will be happy to switch to Gnome Shell when…

    – I can use Compiz, or when Mutter/Gnome Shell catches up to *all* of Compiz’s features
    – I can *easily* customize the panel with things like one-click application links and applets/indicators that *I* find useful, without having to learn Javascript.
    – I can *easily* move panels to better locations on the screen (top, bottom, left, or right).
    – I can get rid of unneeded things that are on the panel, including that useless and annoying Activities menu.
    – I can use it on all my computers without having to do expensive upgrades just to make it run.

    Until those features are implemented, Gnome Shell isn’t worthy of the awesomeness that is Mint, in my opinion. Mint is better than that.

  430. Or, one thing that might make me happier with Gnome 3 might be an extension (or set of them) that hides the Activities menu, allows the panel to be moved, and allows you to add Gnome 2 applets. That’s not perfect, but I might be able to live with it.

  431. should be KDE, Gnome will always be a wall, KDE is more advanced, easy to develop, with a more artistic and creative community developing it

  432. I look forward to the RC and am curious to find out the improvements and the possible disappointments by myself 🙂

    I do not need the comments from all the Gnome 3 “haters” as I have red above. I choose for the distro I like and Clem and his team is providing it to me, so it seems now.

    I thank him for that. If I do not like it, I will find the distro who suits me better. That is the advantage from Linux. I have the choise!

    Clem and team, I think you have done the right steps to go forward with Mint and I say: “THANK YOU!!”

    Best regards,
    Frits

  433. @ Frits

    GNOME 3 needs time to mature as there is still much can go wrong. This is why I am pleading with Clem to release a GNOME 2.32 as well so users have the option during the transitional period.

    GNOME 3 will most likely be ready for default by Mint 13 LTS but not yet. This does not make me a GNOME 3 hater by any means.

    The reason for the way my earlier posts have been worded is because certain people on here are so arrogant and think they speak for everyone.

    I have been using Mint since 2007 and it is for this very reson I plead with Clem for a GNOME 2.32 release as well

  434. I am encouraged by your preview announcement of Mint 12. MGSE sounds like exactly what I wanted Gnome 3 to be. I hope it will also make it into the Mint Debian Rolling Release version which I prefer.

    I have been following Gnome 3 in the Fedora 16 development. While I recognize the new, probably superior, technology involved, I do not like the new layout and loss of existing features and applets from Gnome 2. Because of that, I have installed and mmostly use the LXDE desktop under Fedora 16. MGSE will hopefully give me the best of both worlds.

    Thanks and keep up the good work – freedom of choice is what makes Linux great.

  435. Frits,

    I appreciate your opinion, and I also appreciate and thank Clem for the hard work he’s done. Mint is quickly rising to #1 for good reason! And I don’t “hate” Gnome 3, and welcome it as an option, if that’s possible. However, it is obvious that it is a huge step backward from Gnome 2 for the reasons I have stated above, and is not ready for mainstream yet. I’m just expressing my “feedback and reactions”, as the blog post requested.

    As for choice, what choice do I have? All of the really good, user-friendly distros are moving to Gnome 3 or Unity and dropping Gnome 2 altogether (except for MATE, in Mint’s case, which is going to have “rough edges” for a while, and may not have much of a future, by some accounts). No other desktop environment works to the level that Gnome 2 did without being bloated and slow (like KDE). I have no choice in this. I’m forced to accept a desktop that’s not up to par with Gnome 2, or use an old distro version that has or will soon lose support (and thus will lack up-to-date software). I’m stuck without acceptable choices.

    I’m glad Gnome 3 is good enough for you. It’s just not good enough for me.

  436. guys, unfortunately it’s not about whether the Gnome 2.32 desktop is better than Gnome Shell or not (I happen to agree that it is, and will no doubt spend a great amount of time swearing at Gnome Shell when I’m finally forced to start using it in earnest). But a “Gnome 2.32 version” that some people seem to be begging for doesn’t make any sense. There is a Gnome 2.32 version available — it’s called Mint 11… What are you looking for? The changes in a new version are precisely about upgrading to GTK3 versions of applications, and so on. These won’t work on Gnome 2.32.

    What I want, and what I suspect you want too, is a way to keep using the latest versions of the software I care about, with the latest security fixes and so on, and to be able to keep working with a desktop paradigm that I’m comfortable and productive with. This is exactly what Linux Mint is trying to offer us, with innovations like MGSE.

    Think about what you’re asking for. It doesn’t make sense.

  437. @Guy

    It’s my hope that you didn’t perceive me as being arrogant, but even so, I refuse to apologize for my post. I wasn’t trying to speak for you or anyone in particular. I just merely presented the reality. You already have Gnome 2 in as early as Mint 9. So you have 3 versions with Gnome 2 that are still being actively supported. Why would you want the Mint team to expend unnecessary resources on yet another version of Mint containing a dying DE? Is it solely because Clem made a “promise?” If your boss promised you a pay raise by the end of the month, but by week’s end, everybody in the company lost their jobs including your boss, would you hold him to it? Things change, and we’re best off if we don’t take it personally.

  438. I have been using Isadora since its release, a convert from Vista, and I really love it. I have actively promoted Mint to my friends and have even switched a couple over from Windows. Mint rules.

    But I have installed Ubuntu 11.10 with gnome-shell on a 16gb flash drive, and I have to say that I like gnome-shell. I can maneuver through my system faster. The interface is just cool and sleek. The UI is very quick to get accustomed to.

    What would be cooler would be Mint with gnome-shell.

    I just don’t understand the dislike for the shell. I like it much better than unity, though both are improvements in UI. An hour after installing 11.10 with gnome-shell I was zipping through the system, locating apps and files. It was fun.

    Try it out for a while.

  439. I don’t quite get this emphasis on “change”. The problem isn’t the cost of adapting, it’s the net loss of functionality.

    Think a moment about this ubiquous “search” thing … for apps?? Hell, a pc isn’t a smartphone! Any minimally enabled user can place shortcuts on a panel for his most used apps for quick access. It really can’t get quicker than that (other than voice command or mind control :D). Power users OTOH get happily away with bash. Of course a search function for rarely used apps is nice but … don’t we have them already? does it really need to be the centre of the desktop metaphor? Or did the cool Mac-Finder guys just tell you so? What’s wrong with point&click?

    Another thing we would want to search are documents, all kinds of them. That makes much more sense, but … don’t we have search options for that already, too?

    Add on top of that that gnome3 or unity both impose arbitrary bars and layouts, and don’t even allow you to get rid of them, bluntly wasting your desktop space and tyrannizing your environment. What’s wrong with being able to fully customize your desktop layout? We have had this for years, already! This isn’t evolution, it’s throwing away a flexible metaphor and proven system, and replacing it with some rigid eye candy that’s supposed to be superduper but … just isn’t.

    Some of this could make sense with casual users in mind. THat’s ok, but why in hell do we have to adopt it universally? I really have to ask myself what those guys mean by “enhancing user experience” or what their undestanding of the term “user” in the context of “user interface” is. This is just the opposite for me.

    This is not a rant (I will anyway stick with gnome2 until gnome3 is gnome2able enough, no question and no problem with that), but I really don’t get it, why we’re suddenly heading backwards.

  440. Anyone following the hits on Distrowatch over the last few days will be aware of the massive amount of interest Mint has been generating recently.
    So many people are dissatisfied with Unity and Gnome 3 that they are looking to our beloved Distro to save them from frustration.
    Mint is under the spotlight like never before, and I’m sure Clem and the team are well aware of this, hence the effort to offer such a choice of desktops.
    This release doesn’t have to be the best Mint release ever, that will come with time, just the best available Gnome 3 Distro, and it’s looking good so far!
    Let’s all have a little faith and leave the unfavourable speculation until we’ve tried the RC, (not long now!) then maybe offer some constructive criticism.

  441. Thanks Clem.
    Never ocurred to me that there would be a shortcut to open paths (Ctrl+L). But i guess that’s logical.

    Although i maintain my position that Nautilus is a bad file browser. Let me rephrase that: Nautilus is an Excelent file explorer, with terrible usability.

    I belive there’s much room for improvement on that area.
    Also i remember reading somewhere that the gnome team is working on a replacement for Nautilus, and… it’s even worse…

  442. @scorici & tdockery97

    Mate is not proprietary. Perberos encountered a bug when filling in the licensing information on the site scorici linked that prevented him from entering the correct information.

    Hope that clears things up.

  443. First of all, congratulations to Clem and his team. You really care for what the users want, even if this includes the cumbersome task of maintaining two desktops.
    I think you’re right in abandoning Unity. Canonical are pursuing their very own business model with it, heading towards tablets and smartphones, as Mr Shuttleworth recently confirmed once again.

    As to Gnome 3, I used to reject it ardently, but after playing with it for some time, I’m beginning to understand the rationale behind it. Now I think it has some potential, but desperately needs more customisation options and a nice theme (don’t like Adwaita). Enter the Mint team. 🙂

    For users preferring a traditional experience, I think you should concentrate on MATE in the long run instead of trying to tweak Gnome 3 to look accordingly because
    – MATE might be easier to adapt because it’s basically the old Gnome. On the other hand, the fact that the upper bar in Gnome 3 doesn’t seem to be removable gives a first impression of more problems to come.
    – A tweak like MGSE basically breaks Gnome 3’s desktop paradigm, adding things that are already there, only in a different form:
    * Gnome 3’s windows exposé view acuatally provides a better overview than the traditional window list.
    * Applications are meant to be started in the dash view, not from an applications menu or dock in the normal view. To feel more at home with Gnome 3, I initially installed Docky for faster access to my favourite applications and personal folders, but eventually realized that it’s only duplicate to Gnome 3’s favourite applications starter.
    * Tray icons are shown in the lower right corner when you hover with your mouse over it.
    * The absence of all above eliminates the need for a lower bar – which Mint rightfully removed a long time ago – and therefore leaves more space (not only relevant on netbooks).

    Admittedly, the downside is that all of these Gnome 3 functions aren’t accessible unless you click/hover over “Activities” or hit the Windows key. I think that’s the one major obstacle, but one thing one can get accustomed to because what you get is a much better overview of both your active windows and your applications.

  444. First of all, congratulations to Clem and his team. You really care for what the users want, even if this includes the cumbersome task of maintaining two desktops.
    I think you’re right in abandoning Unity. Canonical are pursuing their very own business model with it, heading towards tablets and smartphones, as Mr Shuttleworth recently confirmed once again.

    As to Gnome 3, I used to reject it ardently, but after playing with it for some time, I’m beginning to understand the rationale behind it. Now I think it has some potential, but desperately needs more customisation options and a nice theme (don’t like Adwaita). Enter the Mint team. 🙂

    For users preferring a traditional experience, I think you should concentrate on MATE in the long run instead of trying to tweak Gnome 3 to look accordingly because
    – MATE might be easier to adapt because it’s basically the old Gnome. On the other hand, the fact that the upper bar in Gnome 3 doesn’t seem to be removable gives a first impression of more problems to come.
    – A tweak like MGSE basically breaks Gnome 3’s desktop paradigm, adding things that are already there, only in a different form:
    * Gnome 3’s windows exposé view actually provides a better overview than the traditional window list.
    * Applications are meant to be started in the dash view, not from an applications menu or dock in the normal view. To feel more at home with Gnome 3, I initially installed Docky for faster access to my favourite applications and personal folders, but eventually realized that it’s only duplicate to Gnome 3’s favourite applications starter.
    * Tray icons are shown in the lower right corner when you hover with your mouse over it.
    * The absence of all above eliminates the need for a lower bar – which Mint rightfully removed a long time ago – and therefore leaves more space (not only relevant on netbooks).

    Admittedly, the downside is that all of these Gnome 3 functions aren’t accessible unless you click/hover over “Activities” or hit the Windows key. I think that’s the one major obstacle, but one thing one can get accustomed to because what you get is a much better overview of both your active windows and your applications.

  445. I’m glad to see all the choices. It’s not that I’m that much in love with Gnome 2. I am not averse to change. It’s just that I can not seem to get on board with Unity’s idea of progress. I’m hoping I like Gnome 3 better.

  446. Hello there, as TomG says, propietary is a vague term. The problem was that the code had 3 licenses and gnome-look don’t allow to pick more of one. So If I choose propietary license, it allow me to fill a text box to put more details. So I put all about the 3 licenses.

    Spoiler there are:
    https://github.com/perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment/blob/master/mate-desktop/COPYING
    https://github.com/perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment/blob/master/mate-desktop/COPYING-DOCS
    https://github.com/perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment/blob/master/mate-desktop/COPYING.LIB

    And about the AUR, it was the same problem, but I choose EULA because the package mate-desktop-environment is empty and do not have code or binary data. It’s a useless package.
    It’s funny, because I am propietary of some that you can’t use it because it don’t exists in any form. lol

    Grettings and sorry about my English.

  447. I wish Mint would ditch all desktops and just have 1 release with KDE.
    If Mint would polish KDE a little bit in their way, it would be the best linux desktop ever.

    Jumping on Gnome3 train now is no good. Just wait another 2 years until gnome3 is really final and then decide. There will be significant changes in gnome3 for the next 2 years all the time. why do you want to bother yourself with that?

  448. >It’s application-centric, not task-centric (you switch between applications, not windows)

    No, Gnome 3 is full of flaws, but this one is an epic improvement.

  449. Now, with only a screenshot of the new LinuxMint 12 available, let’s think already about the next version. Unfortunately it will be nr.13, but on the other hand it will be an LTS version. In just over half a year it will see daylight which should give the team a nice time to work on MGSE to work out any flaws which might be in.
    Since Mint follows Ubuntu and Ubuntu stated the next LTS will last 5 years, I sure hope with a full grown MGSE this LTS version will also lasts 5 years, giving me a nice long time without re-installs.
    Yes, the future looks bright, the future looks Mint.

  450. Clem
    I feel no apologies to media and user community are needed – we know the wait will be worth it.
    Linux will always be a moderated consensus by the greater interested majority and therein is its strength.
    As long as a moderated design > implement > review > re-design loop is kept going we can only expect the very best and that’s what we are getting. Keep up the great work Clem and team.
    Fran

  451. As an “Ubuntu refugee” and one of the 40% added to the Mint community since Ubuntu, Canonical and Shuttleworth went crazy, I want to thank you guys for “rescuing” us and for taking a sensible approach to the desktop issue. Frankly, it looks to me that the crisis at Ubuntu will be a blessing for the Mint community and for a big chunk of (now -ex)Ubuntu users who have discovered a much better distro and a vibrant community.

    As for G3, it has improved a lot since the version 3.0 and my hope is that some of the, shall we say, “corrections” introduced by Mint will find their way back upstream. Hopefully, the GNOME community will keep a close eye on what Mint will be doing.

    Thanks *a lot* to all of you!

  452. Very cool! It’s good to see someone providing an alternative to the polished turds that are Unity, GNOME Shell, and Windows 8.

    Will you be making the MGSE code available upstream? It would be very cool to have it available in Debian.

  453. @nomadewolf
    You can make ctrl+L permanent in nautilus
    terminal->run gconf-edit -> expand apps ->scroll down to nautilus -> expand and click on preferences->tick on Always_Use_Location_Entry-> that’s all

  454. YES, this is exactly what I wanted, because I love the new features of the gnome shell, but I really miss the task bar, so I’m very excited! Thanks for the great Work!

  455. I really enjoy the your creativity and willingness to take risks. Good luck with this interesting approach. This sort of ferment illustrates the adaptability and resilience of Linux and the FOSS community.

  456. Some saying Mint is rising to number 1?
    Wake up folks.
    Mint *IS* frigging number *ONE*, and I just checked by 76 points over Ubuntu and growing…

    Reason for this is that Unity will make Ubuntu usershare smaller.

    I am in favour of a remix edition. GNOME 2.32 and GNOME Shell with whatever, but in ANOTHER CD/DVD. The Shell is not so stable as of yet, and many extensions CRASH. This could hurt Mint. And we don’t need this now.

    Main Edition with GNOME 2.
    FORGET ABOUT MATE – won’t get the spot if Torvalds himself calls out for it.

  457. I’m using Linux Mint on my personal laptop. I’m happy with your work guys. Specially with the Debian-fully compatible version. This ’cause I’m a Debian user since started with Linux; I love the way it works but sometimes it’s so hard to get new hardware working. With your Mint-Debian version it has changed. I would like you to keep working on it, since it’s a mint: a light, fast, clean and stable Linux distribution. Congratulations and thank you again. Very good job.

  458. This will undoubtedly make Mint the top distro for quite some time. I left Ubuntu after thinking I would never change. But the whole point of moving from Windows to lInux was FREEDOM of choice. You have given that back to the people. THANK YOU so much.

    NC – USA

  459. Your ideas are as always amazing! I love the look of gnome3 but i miss the notification area and the windowlist and the new bottom menu you designed is beautiful! Great job! You ARE better than Ubuntu because you make users happy 🙂 Thanks!

  460. Haven’t been this excited in a LONG time!! Hope it works on My Acer AIO desktop machine!! Primarily the wireless network adapter.

  461. Im read all and really, i can’t wait!
    Your idea is great and look super that descktop.
    You are doing a great work wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

  462. This is why I love Linux Mint. You guys are thinking Canonical really hasn’t been in anyway you guys are thinking about the users not in a business state of mind I guess you can say. Now only if I could convince my friend to switch from Ubuntu to Linux Mint =)

  463. Clem, on the search engine thing, you said something about potentially receiving revenue through purchases by users. Christmas is coming up. Is there some way for us to facilitate some type of rebate for Mint? I mean, I might be running a different os when shopping but if i knew that a portion of my purchase went to you guys I would wait and make the purchase with my other computer. When does this take effect and how does it work?

  464. “It won’t only be down to donations and sponsorships anymore, your activity on the web, every search query you make and product you buy will help fund our project.”

    This is what I’m most excited about. I’m admittedly a lazy person. This sounds like a fantastically lazy way to fund a project I LOVE. I know there’s commercial ramifications with monetization, but I fully support this move. It sounds much more scalable and automatic than asking for donations through mailing lists

  465. Looking foward for the next LXDE version (witch I use). Maybe looking forward for a LMDE LXDE edition? That would be awesome, again…

  466. DuckDuckGo search engine rocks! Please add DuckDuckGo (SSL) to the drop-down search engine menu in Mint 12.

    Thanks Clem.

  467. Hi guys and girls,
    Why oh why make KDE out of the Gnome? Which always tried to copy Windows look. Thats the reason i chose Gnome over KDE in the first place. Well i understand Mint is for Windows converts. But i don’t fall in this category unfortunately. I guess Ubuntus aiming for that category of those who are minority that thinks different.
    No i mean, i was really waiting for this news. And this is a nice job. Once the stable is out I’m so testing it right away.
    But i guess i belong to the minority of the population that prefers BB to iPhone, OSX to Windows, etc etc.
    I actually pretty like Unity and Gnome 3.
    Just was very very interested what is Mint going to do with this.
    The whole point for me to use SuperOS instead of Mint is:
    After i used Ubuntu and OSX. I discovered that actually menus in the upper right part are more comfortable. But when Windows copied Mac they had to put them somewhere else.
    So it landed at the bottom. But why oh why do we have to copy it further. Ohh well because of those conservative users i guess. But then i suppose its the time for Mint to become mainstream distro. While Ubuntu is one that still thinks different. And fits perfectly my needs. But thats the price of being different i guess.
    The next thing for me to see will be the W8 with its Metro. Lets see hows that will change the game.
    Have fun guys with the green colors. I actually always was one of those who liked the brown theme of Ubuntu. 🙂 But thats again minority.
    If u like check the SuperOS out.
    Have fun.
    Sincerely yours,
    Nikolai

  468. Mint must be doing something right, i just refreshed the last 7 days on Distro watch and Mint now no 1 has over 5,000 hits per day, Ubuntu has dropped to 3rd with just over 2,000 hits per day..well done Mint.

  469. I haven’t used mint for a while… (since mint 8) but i am still in love with the releases. It really does seem that mint is what people say; “ubuntu done right”.

    Sticking with arch+xfce for the time being. Really looking forward to the Gnome3/MGSE release. Very nice idea by the looks of it, i’m still not keen on using Gnome3, however the MATE desktop does sound like a very awesome idea, i really might consider using it.

  470. To moderator:
    a stray smiley face appeared in my above comment, could you please add a space after the “8”.

    thanks
    (delete this post)

  471. I’ve been using Mint for 3 years now and love watching it develop in useful, practical, and elegant ways! Every release is like opening another Christmas present only to find I’m getting more than I asked for.

    By the looks of Distrowatch, Mint 12 may be one of the most anticipated releases in Linux history. Well done, team!

  472. Onward and Upward! Congrats to the Mint team on kicking Ubuntu’s tail-end. I’ve tried the new release, and though it works well, just cant bring myself to use Unity and the new side-panel launcher. You guys have the best Linux desktop for sure!!!

  473. Pedro Azevedo (reply #560) offered what I see as the best remarks till now.

    Exactly because of his reasons I found out that a vertical panel is the best working solution for me, surely on 16:9 and 16:10 screens, but even on older 4:3 screens as well.

    Gnome2 is dead; Xfce does not allow transparent panels, offers no control of icon size as one changes the panel width, and the clock does not fit well in a vertical panel; KDE is way too slow.

    I found LXDE to be the best, as not only it is extremely fast and responsive, free from stuff such as zeitgeist, evolution, akonadi, nepomuk, pulseaudio, mono, and so forth, but also it offers an extremely flexible panel, allowing transparency, independent setting of panel width and icon size, two columns of icons for better space usage, and ultra-flexible clock (you can fit weekday, date and time in a vertical panel making 3 separate clocks stacked one above the other).

    Like this, I get every single essential feature of Gnome2 or MGSE with a much better vertcal panel, plus full vertical space, zero top and bottom panel, and openbox wm allows me even to remove the titlebar when I want so.

    Bottom line? Keep elucubrating with Gnome2, Gnome3+shell, Unity, MSGE, or anything in between; for as long as I have LXDE I’m a happy man and don’t care for all this useless bloat!

  474. I have Ubuntu 11.10 running Gnome Shell 3.2.1 without Unity on my Fujitsu Siemens 2.4 Gig Dual Core box with integrated Nvidia. (Test Box)
    I have installed MGSE Bottom Panel, Menu & Window List.
    They are all working very well Clem, No shell crashes, Just seamless integration… Very Nice.
    One thing though, The scroll bar on the menu only works with the mouse wheel as when I click on it I cannot get a grab on it to move it up and down… design feature or small bug..??
    Nice Work Clem & Team.

  475. Well this is indeed good news.. i thought i was gonna get stuck on Mint 10 forever 🙂

    things like this makes me very happy i chose Mint over Ubuntu.

    ty guys.

  476. Other distro loose their loving users by jump to Gnome 3 and Unity. Their creators are blind and have no idea what is open source and linux for and what it’s mean for normally users. Mint crew know and keep this way and go this way…

  477. 600 comments? A humble advice at this stage; Whatever you do to Mint OS, please make an alternate offline backup first at every step. And with all these recent attacks on various Linux source servers, its important to provide users with a bit more secure way to download Lisa.

  478. When will we ever be able to print off coupons that are sent to us. I can not print from Target and many other well known sights????? Please fix this SOON!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  479. Fantastic news! While many are busy attacking GNOME 3 and fighting against installing it tooth-and-nail, you’ve taken a very proactive stand on this! I’m proud to be running Mint! I eagerly await the release of Mint 12. 🙂

    Keep up the great work!

  480. Cool, I’m sure an upgrade option will be provided. MGSE was a great idea as Gnome3 has its downfalls although still in its first stages of development. The MGSE has definitely caught my interest as I’m a new comer to mint 11 after the disappointing use of gnome 3 in ubuntu 11.10. I’m sure Mint will come through with its latest version.

  481. I like the notification area on the bottom, and I like the menu appearance. The only thing I need in Gnome 3 is customisable panels. I want to be able to move them, to make them hiding, and to add to them as it was in Gnome 2. Thank you for your work.

  482. i am impressed by the decision to switch to gnome3. i use fed15 presently and am quite comfortable with gnome3. was looking for any other distro which comes with gnome3 for a long time and could’nt find one. now seems the search is going to end on nov 20. very impressed by the decisions.

  483. Linux mint eres nuestra esperanza, se que muchos usuarios retornaron a otros sistemas operativos en base a la desesperacion, antes un escritorio no muy versatil, como lo es gnome 3.
    Mint no es solo la mejor distribucion linux hasta el momento sino que es la que salvara el codigo linux si las cosas siguen como van en las demas distribuiciones.
    espero con ancias el proximo lanzamiento y me impacta muchisimo la vision de como sera la proxima Linux mint…
    probe todas las distribuciones y la que mas estable me quedo que es lo mas importante estabilidad fue LMDE.
    asi es que admiro muchisimo su trabajo en equipo y sobre todo que a la hora de expresar sus ideas y tomar decisiones sobre lanzamientos primero ustedes se enfocan mas que en sus nesecidades en las nesecidades del usuario.

  484. It is look fantastic, i can wait to prove it. But a suggestion, one think that i don’t like of gnome 3 is the way to chance the desktops, in vertical form. In gnome 2 we can change between left and right, up and down. It is functionality changed in Linux mint 12?.

  485. Nice, I became a huge fan of Mint after going trough a few different Distros and I simply love it! It is at the top of the distributions; even though it isn’t a commercial Linux Distro, as Ubuntu, I think it’s simply bested it (I hated Unity, and Ubuntu’s approach at Gnome 3 was a piece of…). Well, anyway, Good work, guys, hope Mint (as well as Linux in general) becomes acknowledged as the amazing OS it is; Good work, guys, and keep it up, so Ubuntu comes Down!

    I hope you can make a more Decent approach to Gnome 3 (I keep to believe it is impossible, but if anyone can, it is the mint team!) and, if not, get out a version that uses Gnome 2.32 (or MATE) on a different CD (or DVD). Sincerely hope it’s not necessary to do so and we get a nice Minty Gnome (Gnome 3 has a lot of potential, it just has been… Miss used). Keep it up, guys, Mint can definitively become the best Linux OS out there (Who knows? perhaps even the best OS); it already is the best community 😉 (thanks, of course, to proxima_centauri and the other administrators/moderators). Long Live Mint!

  486. I’m waiting for this release a long time.

    Let’s see how Gnome 3 will work on Mint, until now I have a satisfactory use on Fedora, but neither OS can’t be compared to Mint, I mean, in terms of usability and fulfill the user needs.

    Thank you so much for the concern with the users opinion.
    Please, keep always this way, conquering everyday more and more users.

  487. GNOME Shell + MATE will help Linus to change to Mint. 🙂
    More blue-greenish than plain GREEN!
    ************** PLEASE **********************

  488. hi Konstigt,

    I just tried to upgrade from LinuxMint 11 after a fresh install of LinuxMint 11. Therefore, I edited the /etc/apt/sources.list and changed in every line the name natty to oneiric and in the very first line the name katya to lisa.

    Then I did all the installation. But then, a lot of problems appear. So I did again sudo apt-get -f install and then sudo apt-get update and afterwards sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and had all this completely run through.

    But in the end: the system is completely broken and I cannot log into the system. Everytime I get this error:

    Could not update ICEauthority file /home/andrea/.ICEauthority.

    Then I tried with some other ommands I found at ubuntuuses to solve that problem. But it all didn’s help.

    So the best thing is waiting and staying with LinuxMint 11 it seems.

    Greetings
    Andrea

  489. Any chance that the Mint version of Gnome will have the emblems in Nautilus? Like ‘ticks’, ‘stars’, etc. used e.g. to mark that a file has been read/viewed, or as a favourite…
    (They were dropped by Gnome 3 team – no idea whatsoever WHY)

  490. I started to use linux mint about three years ago and in linux as a Windows user every thing was new and i liked it
    today the most of my works i do in linux mint and it is not a problem to use a new thing in linux i am realy waiting for linux mint 12

  491. hi Kriss,

    better remove the bottom-panel. This is one of these LMGSEs. You need to look, which one it is.

    But: better do not directly upgrade from LinuxMint 11!!! This will break your whole system and make it unusable for you. This happened to me after a clean fresh Install of LinuxMint 11 on my Notebook. Here on my main Machine, I still have LinuxMint 11 with Gnome-Shell 3.2. But the extensions are more or less not working here.

    Then on my Notebook, with this configuration, Nautilus crashed for me. So I could not use it. To fix that, I thouht: upgrade to LinuxMint 12 (the above steps). But this broke my whole system, so that I cannot use it anymore. I can also not logg into my system because of the above mentioned error.

    So it would be nice, if we would see the new Installation-Media soon.

    Greetings
    Andrea

  492. Hmm.. Why you just drop Gnome and shift to Xfce4? It’s simple, fast and have lots of handy keyboard shortcuts (contrast to Gnome3) and it’s very easy to get use. To my experience, it’s much more easy to use than Windows 7 or OSX.
    Xfce4 really put fun back in computing. 🙂

  493. Please work a little bit on usability of gnome 3. The most annoying thing that I’ve found in gnome 3 is menu bar on top which cant be placed on left/right or bottom side of the screen.

    I am used to classic desktop in which I always have on top which requires less precision to switch tabs or close a programmes.

    I really hope that my entry will be noted 🙂

  494. Although this is based entirely on a screen shot, my initial impression is that while it’s an improvement over Gnomes Hell, it is a step backwards when compared to the current Mint Menu. I realise it’s early days and I haven’t seen in use yet so am reserving my judgement until I do.

    Ultimately though, I’m hedging my bets and trying other distros again, looking for a sleek and worthy replacement. Just in case you understand. Just in case.

  495. OK guys,

    I just tried new Fedora 16.
    I can now testify that I will not be using GNOME SHELL in any form.
    I just felt that this can hurt Mint actually. I have used the extension in ArchLinux VM and it’s confusing.

    I urge you to deploy MATE and carry the MATE flag. Please.

    That is the only way MATE can make it to mainstream, getting support from Linus Torvalds, Eric Raymond and others.

    GNOME 2 was already perfect. All we need is to port MATE to GTK 3.

    I spent a whole morning working with GNOME SHELL and all I got is my fist sore and a eye-headache, it is a brain dead desktop.

    Linus, you were right – UNHOLY MESS !

  496. @ andrea

    A better option would be to install Ubuntu 11.10 then add the Mint 11 repository and install the Mint packages manually

  497. @ Mad Professor

    Better for another distro. to fail than Linux Mint. And just to think this is Fedora’s second crack at GNOME 3.

    Why have MATE when you can have GNOME 2.32 proper in any case ?

  498. Sorry Clem but I don’t like it. I prefer a single panel at bottom. I also do not wont to use gnome shell or unity. gnome shell has to many functions missing. No compiz – no wobbly windows, no desktop zoom, at least it has grid, can’t put anything on the desktop. I was hoping for a mint shell. Or a mint panel or dock with mintmenu that would function like the old panel. My understanding is you can use a dock without using unity just uncheck the unity in compiz. Not sure how to do that with gnome shell.

    Thanks for your efforts and hard work.

  499. @Chem….I hope the upcoming Mint 12 is a success. I think the idea of MATE is an interesting one. If it’s stable, it should be available as an option for those that dislike and/or hate Gnome 3 with a passion! LOL

    I wish you & Team Mint well on this latest project.

    @everyone else….Today is a great day to be a Mint Debian user. I had it for a year in Gnome 2. But after one week of using Gnome 3, I made the switch to Xfce 4 and never look back since.

    And I say the word “switch” very tightly. I took it a step further by removing almost everything Gnome-related and replace it with everything Xfce-related.

    For myself, Gnome 3 is not user-friendly at all. But the real problem is that Gnome 3 is a total RAM-hog & CPU-hog. Not only does Gnome 3 use more memory & CPU than Gnome 2, but also more than KDE! In my dead honest opinion, this is not acceptable for any desktop or laptop.

    At the end of the day, every individual Mint-user is going to have to do what is better for themselves and their computer. The only suggestion I have to give is for every to consider Mint Debian Xfce as a back-up plan just in case life with Mint (Main or Debian edition) in Gnome 3 doesn’t improve to their satisfaction.

    That is all.

  500. @Guy

    Because we need a new brand and make it to the mainstream. After embraced by the big programmers, MATE will be ported to GTK3, and have its own set of developers.

    Having GNOME 2.xx would confuse much more users. There’s already much confusion. MATE sounds like a new brand, a new direction. We know it’s GNOME 2, but will not be linked to GNOME foundation any longer.

    Understand the principles?

    That is why MATE needs to be uplifted as Linux Mint Main edition flag.

  501. I encourage anyone here to download Fedora Desktop 16 and run the live CD and start doing some stuff in it. It happened that I started to install things and it crashed. The live session has an amount of fixable memory, funny enough, Ubuntu live session is not like that. Same problem happens if you install Fedora on USB pen drive.

    Just feel it… GNOME 3 is is is is an unholy mess.

  502. I am one of the very old and strong Ubuntu users who is moving to mint. I loved Ubunut up to 11.10 and even 11.04 is OK as classic is available (true classic, not the crap one in 11.10) in fact it just logged me out and caused 5 min of downtime with logout lockdowns turned off. Here are issues I really need addressed to use Mint 11 at our library.1)cursor color and size configurable as it was up to 11.10. Mint has the option but it doesn’t do anything in desktop-themes-pointer. Ubuntus option also doesn’t work anymore in 11.10. 2) being able to have top and bottom panels available and with light or white color and dark or black text with fonts sizable 3) ability to have normal scroll bars and close, min, and max buttons in all apps staying visable as an option. We have a ton of seniors and they need visable large items that they don’t have to hover around with a mouse to find. Also we have lots of very beginner computer users and they also need the stuff visable as the librarians can’t constantly leave the front desk to help people with simple tasks.I would hate to have to leave linux over these seemingly simple issues.Thank you and I am very happy with mint 11 so far but that is because it is gnome 2. So I hope mint 12 will have all the features I need.

  503. I have been playing with MGSE inside ArchLinux, and I must admit, it is a GREAT EFFORT. Actually, I never seen an effort like this from the Mint team. However, the experience, is not good enough like it was GNOME 2. There are some CRASHES, and although the menu is quite OK, the bottom task list is so unpolished, worse than XFCE.

    I understand guys, you tried really hard on this one. But for one thing I tell you: You’re NUMBER ONE now, and it’s not BECAUSE LINUX MINT 12. It’s because Ubuntu failed. And because you have been succeeding in deploying GNOME 2 for ages. Remember: NUMBER ONE BECAUSE OF LAST RELEASE. NOT NEW RELEASE.

    So, grab the MATE flag, and lift higher and higher. Do a separate CD with GNOME Shell for those who want. But don’t consider as main edition. Get attention of all big developers around. The GNOME team is not that big. MATE can get even bigger. Lift the MATE flag, and from that, let Linux Mint play a part on world conquering. I am sure Linus Torvalds will say yes.