A system based on Debian

Written by Clem on Friday, July 2nd, 2010 @ 12:04 pm | Main Topics

The idea of a Linux Mint desktop based on top of Debian Testing is quite seducing. It’s much faster than Ubuntu and the current Linux Mint desktops, it uses less resources, and it opens the door for a rolling distribution, with a continuous flow of updates and no jumps from one release to another. It’s something we’ve always been tempted to do. Needless to say, whether it’s been because of our lack of communication on that topic or not, this has been a source of numerous rumors within the community.

A while ago, we released an ALPHA non-installable liveCD based on Debian. Then, last August I announced I was working on a new installer, and recently, I was joined by Ikey Doherty to work on the Debian base again.This time we’re producing our own liveCD, straight from the Debian Testing repositories, and it also comes with its own installer. What we’re aiming at, this time, is a fully working and fully installable liveCD which behaves in every way as similarly as the main Linux Mint edition.

Before I explain a little more about this project, I just need to stress a few important points:

  • Until we release it as stable and we can assess the feedback of the community and the percentage of our users using it, the priority of this project is secondary.
  • We’ve never considered our goal to be linked to Ubuntu in anyway. We consider Ubuntu one of the upstream components that we use on some of the systems we distribute. The same way we distribute Gnome on most systems and other desktops on some others, it’s possible for us to distribute a system with a different package base such as Debian. We’ve also considered experimenting with an RPM Fedora base, a Slackware/APT base  and even making our own from scratch. Of course, changing the base represents more work than changing the desktop, which itself is harder obviously than changing a user application, but we’re a distribution and this is what we do: We distribute a system made of the best upstream components available to us, including our own alternatives.
  • We’re not “switching base”, we’ll continue to use Ubuntu on most of our systems. This Debian-based project will produce an additional system (to start with), it’s something we want to try, and if it proves successful, it’s something we’ll continue to maintain.

At the moment, we’ve got an installable liveCD which comes with a rough Linux Mint desktop. All tools are present, the look and feel is almost identical to the Main edition, but there are a few rough edges. The installer itself is working fine, it supports locales and most features, but it’s still missing a partitioner. That’s what we’re working on at the moment.

Here’s a screenshot of the installer:

And here’s what the installed system looks like (this particular installation is in Korean, as we were testing the new locale support in the installer):

We’re starting with Gnome and i386. We’re not sure whether it will be a CD or DVD yet, and we really can’t say much in terms of ETA. You can follow our progress on the installer on github:

http://github.com/linuxmint/live-installer/commits/master

And once the installer is ready, we’ll start testing ISO images on the Community Website:

http://community.linuxmint.com/iso

I’d like everyone to be patient with this project. A lot of things are happening indeed, but as I said before, the other editions take priority over this and until it gets the release and success it certainly deserves, we’re still considering it an R&D project. Whether you’ll be able to try this out in a few weeks, in a few months or even next year is really hard to say at this stage. Be confident that it will happen, that the team is extremely interested in it and that Ikey and I are working really hard on it. I planned to work on this during the last release cycle, but the development of the new mintInstall and the new Linux Mint 9 features took priority. We’ve got some time at the moment and we’ll make as much progress as we can. No matter what happens, we won’t release it publicly until we’re 100% happy with it.

To those who’ve waited a long time already and to everyone in advance, thank you for your patience.

279 Responses to “A system based on Debian”

  1. Anakondarh Says:

    Sweet! I am sure it will be a good one to tinker with. Good job Clem and Ikey, looking forward to it!

    1st post??

  2. Miro Hadzhiev Says:

    Ubuntu started to annoy me a bit with all this commercially oriented development of the distro. It’s very very good to see that actually somebody still believes in not-so-commercial but still very usable desktop-oriented distro like Debian and its extremely successful history.

  3. Imhoteps Says:

    IMHO it`s time for Mint-team to find a real hardcore sponsor and start sending CDs/DVD worldwide as Canonical did with *buntu (and finally reached what they have reached for now). Mint would get higher then ever then. Possibly even get on top of Linux throne. And yes, I understand that all depends on cash.
    Anyhows – thx Mint-team! I always wish the best luck for y`all.

  4. SxFlare Says:

    Nice, I was wondering what happened ever since I saw the ISO testing entry in the Community website.

  5. jelly_eyed_jim Says:

    AWESOMEEE! Can’t wait to test this one out! I also would really love to see a mint version from scratch. Good luck.

  6. Hawkey Says:

    Could I suggest taht you make a “LXDE-version” (~ don’t like Gnome that much). Would be great if you could consider this in an upcoming release :)

  7. Gromada Says:

    Mint is great. It’ll be even greater on Debian base. But, Mint over-branding is starting to annoy me. I can’t even remove Mint menu icon, which was the most annoying thing at Ubuntu, and Mint gave me the freedom to change it before last edition(!). Every theme I installed and select was reset by and into Mint branding. Please, reconsider to return to normal state of branding, like it was before.

  8. Clem Says:

    Gromada: Right-click on the Menu, select “Preferences” and change the value of the “button icon”.

  9. Alex Says:

    I generally use Mint only as a portable live DVD. Recently I’ve started using Debian testing on my home computer. Needless to say, I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

  10. dirkbart Says:

    Is n’t this the same track the former eeebuntu team (now Aurora) is following now? Do you see possibilities for cooperation?

  11. george Says:

    I would certainly welcome a rolling release. I love Mint. However starting with Mint 8 a few basic functions that I use seemed to stop working as well. Now with Mint 9 there are a huge amount of issues, all related to Ubuntu. I have gone back to using Mint 7 64amd. For myself this was the last distro that worked really well.

  12. Mike Says:

    It’s great to get this confirmation straight from the horses mouth (as it were). Although I have Mint installed on all my machines, and it is my first choice to install for other people, I run Debian Squeeze as my main production OS, but now I can look forward to running Debian Mint instead! Clem, I guess that you will at least wait until squeeze becomes stable before releasing the final version?

  13. sdim Says:

    Well done,eveyone,Clem,Ikey & team.
    A Mint rolling release just like Debian would put the distro itself in a new orbit.I think a lot of us would like such a release which wouldn’t have to be uninstalled twice a year,but it would be continuously renewed,just like Debian.This,of course,doesn’t mean that Ubuntu should be abolished (being the mother ship).It has been the basis our favorite Linux distro is built upon,so it should be respected and offered (through Mint Main Edition) to the people.Just expressing personal thoughts,here.

  14. GoustiFruit Says:

    Hmm, looks like no one is going to blame you for working on this project :-D
    Indeed it could be fantastic.

  15. tux-sven Says:

    I think this i a great idea. I am rather tired of all problems occurred by the Ubuntu base. In Mint9 I have serious starting problems (Plymouth?), I have fsck problems, I have build-in microphone problems, I have problems when changing between battery and main supply.
    When I tested PCLOS KDE yesterday I had no such problems. OK it needed some more hands-on before i was ready, but it still was POSSIBLE to make it work and be RELIABLE, rather easy.
    Mint8 I think was good but i had this battery/main problem. Mint9 STILL has that battery/main issue and even more problems added. :O
    However I like Linux Mint very much and I really hope that a “cleaner” Debian-base should make it more reliable again. :)

    Keep on Clem! :)

  16. npap Says:

    Good work Mint boys!
    But I will have to agree with George on the problems that started after
    Mint 7, which is the last best, stable Mint release.
    Ubuntu has become problematic. An LTS edition should not have been released before clearing up problems in it.
    (By the way,what happened to the old reliable,configurable “xorg.conf” system?)

    Hooray for the Debian-based Mint project!
    Good luck, Clem and team.

  17. Clem Says:

    dirkbart: If it comes up. Developers showed interest in our first installer (debian-mint-installer) and I received a lot of feedback on it, even help. This new one (live-installer) is apparently the missing piece for many Debian-based projects and for Debian itself. We’re making it cross-distribution, the source is on github for people to fork and for everybody to merge and cherry-pick commits. We’ve also overcome the problem related with initramfs and Debian testing… we’re going to create momentum when this comes out, and I’m sure we’ll interact with a lot of devs, not only people looking at Mint but Debian in general. We’ve helped smaller distros by the past and we actively grab ideas and code from other projects. It’s the essence of open source, not necessarily to work for a same goal, but to fork and merge, to reuse and to learn from each others. If the devs at Aurora are going in the same direction I’m sure soon or later we’ll both learn and improve from each others.

    Mike: We’re planning to follow “testing”, not “squeeze”. Both mean the same at the moment but it’s a significant difference, as you pointed out, when Debian freezes its testing snapshot and makes it stable. It’s too soon to say for sure whether we’ll wait for the stable release of Squeeze or not… but my opinion at the moment is that we won’t. We’ll also adapt mintupdate to Debian’s rolling nature, the danger not coming from the level of update, but from particular snapshots/slices_of_time when testing isn’t as stable as we’d like it to be.. but then again, it’s way too soon to talk about this, this isn’t even functionally designed yet.

    Hawkey: We’ll start with a Gnome/i386 image and then we’ll see. Depending on its success and how polished we manage to make it, this base might grow in priority and importance within our own project. At the moment it’s R&D though, so we’re not planning any other edition on that base.

  18. Gromada Says:

    Clem, there is no “Preferences” any more.

  19. Ikey Doherty Says:

    @Gromada: Right click the menu button itself
    Preferences will be the top option

  20. Gromada Says:

    Sory, Clem. I use classic menu, not Mint menu. There was a change…

  21. Mike Says:

    Clem said:
    “Mike: We’re planning to follow “testing”, not “squeeze”. Both mean the same at the moment but it’s a significant difference, as you pointed out, when Debian freezes its testing snapshot and makes it stable. It’s too soon to say for sure whether we’ll wait for the stable release of Squeeze or not… but my opinion at the moment is that we won’t. We’ll also adapt mintupdate to Debian’s rolling nature, the danger not coming from the level of update, but from particular snapshots/slices_of_time when testing isn’t as stable as we’d like it to be.. but then again, it’s way too soon to talk about this, this isn’t even functionally designed yet.”

    OK Clem, sounds exciting! I have to admit that I back up my squeeze-testing system before I allow any major looking upgrades to take place, so that if something does break, I can revert. Most things get fixed pretty quick but an example of something that was broken for months on my Vaio is resume from suspend, which I did not get working until fglrx became installable with xorg 1.7. If you are able to provide fixes for those sorts of breakages, that would be really useful, and also, as the Debian forum has only a handful of helpful posters, the higher level of traffic on the Mint forum would make it a better place to go for problem solving.

  22. Fewt Says:

    Clem, as a Mint fan this is great news. It sounds like some level of collaboration could be mutually beneficial to both the Mint and Aurora projects.

  23. Temporary Saint Says:

    I’ve been watching the progress of these discussions for a while now and can’t wait to try out a stable version. I think it’s a great idea. Rolling distros are a great idea too – no need to “upgrade” to a new release.

  24. Eddy Says:

    I started with Linux PCLOS and liked the experience, polished, easy to learn and really enjoyed the rolling distribution concept

    I then tried Mint and also found it to be a very good user experience, one which outpointed PCLOS in a couple of areas, but I do miss the Rolling Distribution way of keeping up with the latest developments!

    I therefore look forward to this exciting development

    Thanks Clem & the Team for providing such a great product

  25. Ean Schuessler Says:

    I usually run a straight Debian desktop but this is something I would actually try out!

  26. candegrl Says:

    I would prefer to see a KDE based version over the gnome.

    Great idea to move to Debian but need KDE.

  27. runbei Says:

    Hurrah! My personal hope for a Debian-based Mint would be that it would eliminate dependence on Ubuntu with all its problems with inconsistent quality. A sudden, trickle-down Ubuntu bug that finds its way into Mint and – for example – makes it problematic or impossible to run Virtualbox, is a big speed bump for this user. The rolling releases sound wonderful as well. And I’m cheering for the live CD, as Debian has been much too time-consuming and tweaky to install on my systems in the past. But ultimately, the winning point is stability and reliability. I wouldn’t care at all if we didn’t have the latest eye candy from Ubuntu – just give us the Mint Menu (wonderful) and a solid, secure OS that evolves conservatively and supports our everyday work. Thanks, Clem – though I’m a non-techie, I’ve been able to use Mint with delight for about 2 1/2 years now in heavy, daily production work.

  28. Dale Says:

    Great news! I can’t wait to see how the project goes, I have been a fan of Debian for years and the only reason I came back to Ubuntu based is for the forward thinking of Mint.
    Just thinking of the great ideas and support of Mint on a strait cut stable Debian rip just sends shivers up my spine :)
    Wish I was a better programmer I’d love to offer up the help.

    Go Linux Mint Team Go!

  29. casagec Says:

    Re Ubuntu;s deteriorating quality:

    Why aren’t we hearing more about this in the trade press? That’s the only way to keep any product provider focused.

    Because of your attention to quality, Clem, I’m certain that it’s got your continual attention.

  30. Joe H (JoeFootball) Says:

    I heard about this project previously, and this is nothing short of interesting & cool. :-) Keep up the great work LM team!

  31. bhuvi Says:

    rolling release linux mint based on debian gnu/linux aah!! cant wait to use it

  32. fred Says:

    I would switch to mint as soon as I could get an iso if it was based on debian. Rolling releases are one of the best features known to man; it would be great for mint to use this style. Ubuntu is so commercially driven, whereas mint is such a nice community effort, I’d be so much happier to use mint. Being closer to upstream is truly one of the best decisions you guys could make. Please, don’t forget about this project; it holds so much potential.

  33. Fernando E Says:

    Clem:

    If Mint goes Debian, how are we going to install our drivers, e.g., nvidia drivers? I think one of several advantages of being based on Ubuntu is the driver installer.

    Debian keeps many new Linux users away because it is not simple to get it running like Ubuntu based distros are. Additionally, I hope you are able to make the installer much easier to use than the one use by Debian.

  34. finid Says:

    This is good. I’ve always felt that Mint’s installer is its weakest link. But instead of developing an installer from scratch, how about just adopting one that has all the features we need. I’m thinking about Anaconda. It’s the best around, why not use it?

  35. Lady Quindecim Says:

    I just wanted to chime in on this that I think this would be a great move for the future of LinuxMint.

    Very Cool.

  36. Seventh Reign Says:

    The best Linux Distribution available just gets better.

    I cannot wait for this.

  37. CBindahouse Says:

    WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN’T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  38. Oz Says:

    Joining the: WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN’T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Awesome, I hope it’s going to work out well!

  39. rhY Says:

    I have to say that this sounds promising. One of the main reasons I use mint is because I find Ubuntu so annoying (brown, buttons everywhere, community super nazi controlled, poor default app selection). The more you distance yourself from that crap the better imo. Debian is a great, great root to build a strong tree on.

  40. Nottyl Says:

    “We consider Ubuntu one of the upstream components that we use on some of the systems we distribute. The same way we distribute Gnome…”

    That’s very cheeky and very good :) I like the attitude. Here’s hoping one day Mint editions will be based on something better than Ubuntu. Anything really :) but I’m all for Debian of course.

  41. FabriceV Says:

    That’s exactly what I need to leave Ubuntu to Mint. The main current problem is that Mint’s usability improvements are rather minor, simply because large usability improvements means better Gnome and applications, or more simply GUI standardization, which seems unlikely to arrive soon.
    Please do not waste your time trying to sell CD. But try to do commercial deal with dropbox, mendeley, skype… and so on, so that if a Mint user want to install and to access to these services he can have with part of the money back to you.
    Build a global system to distribute donation to softwares included in a Mint selected list. Those who meet criterion (standard gui, currently active project, clear roadmap…). A user can buy a 50$ credit and attribute 5$ per 5$ using the software center, taking into consideration what he wants (the author need, the rate, the comments, his use, the current donation amount, the expected amount by the author…). Also the possibility to ask the user to fund special projects that promote Mint (e.g. a clipboard). Exactly the opposite philosophy of a commercial software center. I really like to use and promote such kind of distro (rolling release – donationware).

  42. Guy Says:

    This is great news indeed :) :)

    Could it indicate a future move away from Ubuntu?

  43. gmzysk Says:

    Awesome idea! I am sure you will make a lot of true community developers happy with this idea. It will make Mint much more versatile in the long run.

  44. Rovanion Says:

    I can see why you would want to separate from Ubuntu. Because Canonical are pulling in their own way with crazy specific non-upstream designs.

  45. Rick Says:

    Clem et. al.,
    I can’t wait! I am new to Linux, started on Ubuntu, but quickly moved to Mint after I found Helena. I too have had issues with Mint 9, and believe it may be upstream problems. I would love a Debian based version of Mint! I think you as developers would have much more freedom to put out a superb product. Thanks for working on this project in your “spare time!”

  46. Larry Says:

    Awesome concept, since Ubuntu is Debian-based, anyway. IMHO, other than Mepis, there is no other “current and dependable” Debian-based distro out there. A Gnome/Xfce LinuxMint based on Debian would be used by me for sure.

  47. Carlos Felipe Says:

    I prefer Ubuntu, I never liked Debian.
    If that happens, I use Ubuntu.

  48. PhotoZel Says:

    Kudos to your efforts, and I can’t wait to assist in testing/trying it out!

    Thanks for all you do to make my life easier. (I only install LinuxMint on friends and families PCs now, no headaches or calls for support)

    Zel

  49. Ambleston Dack Says:

    This is indeed an interesting twist, Debian, but done right :) Are you just going to stick with Gnome or will you release a KDE version? Bearing in mind we currently have 2 Debian KDE distro’s:- Sidux and Mepis.

  50. Alan Says:

    Sounds good to me, among others Crunchbang switched to Debian, rather than being Ubuntu based, geubuntu/opengeu is thinking of the same. Certainly good news for those of us using old hardware. I find Sidux works fine on my old PII 450, but anything Ubutnu based is a waste of time last few releases :(

  51. auser Says:

    Ok, cool. Faster and smaller is good. Reliable updates were an advantage to Ubuntu, but update-reformatting is annoying me. As long as Mint can replace whatever the major Ubuntu bits do, Debian may be more appropriate for a growing distribution like Mint. “Which distribution” is a religious question, and the blog post handled it nicely. Either way, I’m interested in seeing the results of this experiment.

  52. Deadguy Says:

    Clem & Ikey,

    Awesome!!! what else can I say? just Awesome!!

    you two make a great team IMO xD

    Cheers,

    Deadguy

  53. william Says:

    This is something that I can get behind and support. I look forward to helping in as many ways as I can.

  54. diablomarcus Says:

    Can’t wait! I’d prefer it to the bloated proprietary *buntu!

  55. sylvainsjc Says:

    Also joining the: WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN’T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    :D

  56. Walter Prooff Says:

    This sounds to be a great idea – though I’ve always had troubles getting Debian to work ok (or this is just me?).

    Anyway, it would be interesting whether for this project or the actual Mint flavours, to provide separate dvd ISOs for each desktop PLUS a collection of packages so that you are not bound to be connected to the internet for the only purpose of getting more apps… the way some other distros do (like Mandriva – which I am using now for this very reason! – or Fedora, Slackware or… or… or… DEBIAN!!!)

    A dvd is more than 4GB, so why not fill all that space?

    For example:
    - An ISO for each heavy desktop (KDE or Gnome) desktop + Apps (list according to popularity)
    - An ISO for light desktops (Fluxbox, Lxde, E16) + apps

    What do you think of this???

  57. baffle-boy Says:

    wow! sounds all so very exciting! if you can manage to get everything running on debian without losing any of our fancier features i would definitely use it. there’s just one problem, i dislike the idea of a rolling release, it’s very possible to base it on debian and keep the releases the same way… well it would be a little harder, but way more stable and safe!. as long as you make it possible to downgrade to an older release each time then it’s all good.

    @hawkey- there IS an LXDE version, the RC for mint 9 LXDE is already out :|

  58. gambakoker Says:

    Very cool! When there is a RC or stable i will install it right away :)

  59. Jon Says:

    Awesome, I would love to give this version a try when it is completed. It would be interesting to see other versions of Mint, such as Linux RPMint (or RPM based Mint). Basing it off of Fedora would be pretty interesting as well since Fedora is the beta snapshot of Red Hat, and has the cutting edge software. It will be a first, that I can come up with, where a Linux Distributers/Developers gives the choice of not only different Desktop Environments but different package based format Operating Systems.

    Thanks for the update Clem, take it easy.

  60. FrogDemon Says:

    I say Bravo!!! Been waiting a long time for this one. I’m sittin on pins and needles waiting to try it out.

  61. GUINUX Says:

    OK. Great idea. Rolling Release is very good. Why don’t you use Archlinux like the base system. I use it, is optimized for i686 and runs great even in old hardware. Archlinux is “Bleeding Edge” but is a very stable system that never crashes on my machine.
    For me, is a dream to see the look and the tools of Linux Mint over a structure like the Archlinux. And if possible, KDE desktop by default, because KDE have a development cicle constant and innovative, just like you.
    So, here is my suggestion:
    Archlinux base + Linux Mint Developers + KDE = THE BEST LINUX SOLUTION IN THE WORLD.

    Sorry about my poor english.

  62. GUINUX Says:

    Ops. Just correcting my blog address in the hiperlink.

  63. wiggles Says:

    I admire your dedication to producing a polished product. I will always be a dedicated mint fan. Mint is the only distro that I have tried and everything just works.
    Thank you very much. Great job!

  64. zole052 Says:

    thumbs up :)

  65. loyalfan Says:

    Please! Please! Please! at some point begin to think of this is main edition. Also, can I put my $.02 worth for the 64 bit edition? This is the direction that all OS’s are going so why not do the same with Debian/Mint?

    Thanks,
    Loyalfan

  66. Verix Says:

    It seems Mint is suffering from the same problem as the entire Linux ecosystem, as if it’s become contagious or something. I’m talking here about fragmentation, and I don’t think anyone needs an explanation on how much Linux is currently fragmented. But with the numerous editions of Mint, and now the addition of a Debian base, I’m worried this distro is heading in that path. Now the efforts will be divided across all these editions, instead of being concentrated it on one solid edition. I’m sorry if this come out a little rude, that’s not meant at all, I’m just trying to be critical of this project from a wide perspective.

  67. TWO Says:

    Interesting, and I look forward to trying it. But surely Debian lacks certain packages installed by default in Ubuntu/Mint. How do you intend to automate hardware/propriety driver installation?

    If rolling updates are the desire, why not just stick with the LTS?

  68. Kelley Says:

    A rolling Mint distro. Sign me up!
    And please drop Linux from the name and Just call it Mint.

  69. Shaun Mallette Says:

    This is good news!!! I believe that moving to Debian is a very good choice. Good luck with the outcome.

  70. Mark Says:

    Would it something similar to sidux? sidux is brilliant and amzingly fast and their artwork is amazing hopefully you adopt some good looking themes and icons and GNOME should be left out for openbox+LXDE becuase it a wonderful combination as the people at Peppemint OS showed.
    A system built around GNOME will always be slower,but you know better Clem.

    Good Luck and it is an exciting news.

  71. Verona007 Says:

    The idea is good, BUT! The opengeu team (when they were at Ubuntu base) releases was out after a new ubuntu are released. When they decided to switch to the Debian base (testing, too) the didn’t make any release till nowadays. And the testing repo…The using of that did ruin my Debian system in a lot of cases. (Not to mention the insoluble dependencies, it happened too many times!) The ubuntu isn’t perfect, but the Debian…Faster? Yes. Less memory usage? Maybe. But for the every day use, especially desktop use…It is AWFUL!!! I want a Debian-based system for my master desktop too, but the time is not come yet. In that days, when I used Debian (with KDE4 and then with Gnome) when an update was available, I worried. And in the most part of the cases, I am right: The updates ruined my system. Debian testing=You will always living in fear, and handle your system with extra care. If you choose that way, I think the Mint will lose its popularity. Not the whole, but the most. I said I like the Debian, but unreliable. And what will you do with the KDE4??? Debian testing is not so “bleeding edge” like Kubuntu. I will use an older KDE4 than in the OpenSuSE, for example? The Ubuntu was developed from the Debian with a good reason. OK, theres always a chance, that you will make a very good and stable system. But with the Debian testing repo? I dont think so. With a seperate mint repo? Maybe. A seperate repo, where the tested and corrected packages are always accessible, separated from Debian’s tainted repos…What a dream! The PCLinuxOS are made it. This is the only way, if you will switch to Debian, I think. But this is only my opinion. And an advice.

  72. Rick Says:

    great – really looking forward to this. I am very interested in using Debian.

  73. Craig Says:

    no offense meant to the KDE fans…but i feel it’s best to concentrate on gnome for this project…Honestly, i have tried KDE a few times and always (very quickly) return to Gnome….

    I find KDE to be very convoluted and not as easy to get around in as gnome is…To me, gnome reminds me of the Mac system which is easier then windows..and KDE is like a more complicated version of Windows…

    Nice eye candy..yes…easy to use..not so…KDE does have some very fine programs in it, i have to admit…but a lot of basic stuff like messenger (pidgin) mail (evolution) and Media player (Rhythmbox) is nicer on the gnome side…

    I think this Debian project along with a potential “rolling release” concept is a great idea for Mint and hope it works out great….

  74. Coburn Says:

    I use Debian as a starting point for my Operating Systems. I’m currently working on CoburnOS Professional 64Bit, which is based on Debian 64Bit and has either a Gnome or LXDE interface.

    The thing is, why not use Debian than Ubuntu? Ubuntu just is a more-featured Debian, but a lot of the stuff that Ubuntu is bloated up on gets transferred to Linux Mint if you use Ubuntu as a base.

    More or less, it’s the developer’s choice. I swear by Debian, I look at Ubuntu and think it’s a little too user-friendly. Linux Mint suits me fine, but I like to craft things to my expectations. :)

    Also: Make a 64bit only version of Linux Mint. 32Bit is old-school, man. :P

  75. Carlos Felipe Says:

    Better to use Debian, Mint is good because he makes everything that Ubuntu does, and is even easier.
    I would not say more beautiful, lost elegance if you look at the new look of Ubuntu.
    I pray now that you do not destroy the Mint secret formula of success..
    Think about it, you never intended to create a distro for old computers
    I love this distro, so I’m being honest and critical, guys.

  76. HaTeMe Says:

    @Craig: Hu?
    I know that there is some missing Stuff in the KDE Config but in my opinion it is much easier as Gnome – i think its just that you know Gnome so much that u think KDE works like Gnome too (it is like a Windows User going to Linux and is totaly frustrated at first).

    Pidgin? Kopete is cool and its sad that there is no Windows Version.
    Mail? I use TB for so long and V3 is one of the best improvements.
    Media Players are all stupid in my opinion, all of them are like iTunes with the Tag-System and this isnt the best choice in my opinion if you have a lot of Music.

    @News: I like that Idea.
    Ubuntu goes a stupid way at the Moment in my opinion and Debian is a very good Base. I dont realy like the fast Release-time from the Buntus with those small changes – i hope a Debianbase change this for Mint.

  77. W^L+ Says:

    Cool! This is what I’ve been waiting for.

  78. Doug Says:

    Debian is still the best distro out there as far as stability and quality. Mint based on Debian….I am drooling. Can’t wait. We really need to get away from Ubuntu because I get tired of upgrading every 6 months. That is insane. I would prefer that you base Mint on Debian Lenny for long term stability. Why go with testing ? Just my opinion.

  79. RobFromRaleigh Says:

    Baffle-Boy said:

    wow! sounds all so very exciting! if you can manage to get everything running on debian without losing any of our fancier features i would definitely use it. there’s just one problem, i dislike the idea of a rolling release, it’s very possible to base it on debian and keep the releases the same way… well it would be a little harder, but way more stable and safe!. as long as you make it possible to downgrade to an older release each time then it’s all good.

    I concur 100% with this quote. I am excited to hear about the new addition and attention this may bring to the Mint community. I believe that being so closely tied to Ubuntu hurts branding of this great OS distribution because many users prefer to go to “the source”. If Linux Mint is to attain the next level in orbit (as stated earlier), it, too, needs to “go to the source” and get out from behind the shadows of Ubuntu.

    But…this needs to be pulled off in a manner such that the latest hardware (including video cards) can be used without much fuss. I might be “booed” for saying this, but why not consider “service pack” style releases as being between rolling and version releases. Twice per year does seem excessive to me–can we envision using a Linux Mint version 27? That would be less than a decade away now!

    Also, if Mint is to come out from behind the shadows and go to the source, would the time come to release security advisories? I know that is a lot of overhead, but something I believe is important in order to gain an entire base of potential users.

    From a newbie standpoint, I agree with a previous post that it seems natural that efforts for this “new branch” should be for the latest hardware, i.e. amd64 instead of i386. And until the new branch becomes polished enough to compete with the existing Ubuntu-based branch, two should be maintained. But once the Debian-based matches the other, well, that is a cross-roads where the Mint big-whigs will need to decide. If you ever start thinking about such a decision seriously, that will be proof of a job well-done!

    Finally–one comment I would like to make as a newbie: I love many aspects of Gnome (especially the Mint version of it) and believe it is simpler than Windows. But KDE has some great apps that work better in the KDE environment (Amarok, Kontact, and Okular come to mind). Is there any way to “improve” Gnome to make it “KDE aware” to get all the eyecandy, bells, and whistles KDE apps provide while maintaining the simplicty of the desktop design, ALT+F2 functionality, etc.? This, I think, would serve to decrease fragmentation of Linux, although it is probably easier said than done.

    Well, I am a newbie to Linux, so take that for the half-cent it is worth. Mint is a great distro and I welcome any news that might bring it more attention and possibly improve it!

  80. Murugan Says:

    I thought debien base of mint is dead. But now I am really happy to see some progress on it.

    Same way I want to see someone take archlinux base with mintlinux.

    Archlinux (stability + bleedingedge + rolling release) + usability of linuxmint = Outstanding linuxmint distro.

    I use archlinux in home pc. I use linuxmint in office pc. I love both distros.

  81. R-Wdzieczny Says:

    I’d consider switching from my current Kubuntu installation if Mint where to be based on Debian i’d have to be KDE though as it’s my Desktop of choice and Kubuntu currently provides the best for my needs and I love the fact its so close to KDE upstream. Ditch Gnome! (gnome shell is even a good reason to do it) Go KDE please :)

  82. True Says:

    Clem & Ikey, Sounds great! Since I started using Mint several years ago, I have not found a better distro for myself and new linux users. You have done well and I trust your decisions. Really like the idea and can’t wait to try this out. Keep up the good work!

  83. Craig Says:

    Sorry didn’t mean to offend the kde lovers like you HaTeMe…
    But when i came from windows to ubuntu linux for the first time, i took to gnome quite quickly…but when i’ve tried KDE i sit here scratching my head…sorry…just didn’t care for it…it is pretty though…

    But then again…Linux Mint Gnome pretty nice in the “looks” department too!

    Anyway…good luck on this debian project, Clem….

  84. smallstone Says:

    Great! Now the latest Ubuntu use too much resource and my old computer cannot afford…
    I hope tjis version come out faster~~~~

  85. PhrostByte Says:

    This is something I’m actually very interested in! I hope that.. if you guys can work out all the little kinks.. maybe Mint can permanently go Debian? Recently.. Crunchbang released another alpha of their Statler Debian distro.. and it’s really nice.

    This is going to be good. :]

  86. heilkitty Says:

    Good luck on this.

  87. jose m lopez Says:

    GREAT !!!!!!!!! full speed ahead. LINUX MINT based on Devian, oh brother, life is beautiful !!!!! my dream came true.
    You guys are the best. I am very proud to have joined a great group of people with vision.

  88. dogbert176 Says:

    Sounds very exciting to me.

    What would happen if one of the most user friendly linux distro’s would have a stable and fast basis like Debian?
    This could lift Mint to a new level.

    I’m certainly going to try this one on a virtual machine.

  89. Ezequiel Says:

    Fernando E Says:

    Debian keeps many new Linux users away because it is not simple to get it running like Ubuntu based distros are. Additionally, I hope you are able to make the installer much easier to use than the one use by Debian.

    (Sad But True)

    Temporary Saint Says:

    I’ve been watching the progress of these discussions for a while now and can’t wait to try out a stable version. I think it’s a great idea. Rolling distros are a great idea too – no need to “upgrade” to a new release.

    (Try PCLinuxOS 2010)

  90. Ezequiel Says:

    # Verix Says:
    July 3rd, 2010 at 1:48 am

    It seems Mint is suffering from the same problem as the entire Linux ecosystem, as if it’s become contagious or something. I’m talking here about fragmentation, and I don’t think anyone needs an explanation on how much Linux is currently fragmented. But with the numerous editions of Mint, and now the addition of a Debian base, I’m worried this distro is heading in that path. Now the efforts will be divided across all these editions, instead of being concentrated it on one solid edition. I’m sorry if this come out a little rude, that’s not meant at all, I’m just trying to be critical of this project from a wide perspective.

    (Totally Agree With You Man)

  91. privatehuff Says:

    AWESOME!

    Rolling distro is much nicer for new users (and more like what they are used to from mac/windows these days) and ubuntu’s direction is clearly not the same as mint’s, so this seems like an encouraging move! thanks guys!

  92. Baerius Says:

    I personally have some problem with debian and a component of my netbook.. but i still think that debian is the way!(and also a distribution from scratch is very cool!)

  93. JesperK Says:

    It would be very cool to see a Mint distro based on Debian. Looking forward to it!

  94. Idiotein30 Says:

    Hello, I have been using Debian Testing along with cherry picking from Sid since Etch was Testing. It’s the way to go for me BUT :
    There is no security support for Testing, only during the last stretch to a Stable release (aka “freeze”).
    It’s necessary to use Sid repositories (with careful apt[itude] preferences “pinning”) to work around upload breakages, decaying packages due to next version being stuck in Unstable, etc…
    Testing is not endorsed by Debian as a working distro, it’s supposed to be complete but not free of major breakages.

    This said it’s working OK here, but it requires a lot of careful maintenance work, probably more than running Sid derived distro like Sidux or even plain Debian Sid. If the Mint team is up to it with enough manpower it could be interesting.

    About the never ending Gnome/KDE argument, I use both and KDE went though an annoying phase lately, but is now working very nicely (thanks to the packaging work of the Debian KDE team) now, provides a lot of very nice apps (Digikam, K3B, KMail, Dolphin, pick yours…) and is fully tunable.
    Gnome in Debian Testing/Sid seems to be going through bumpy times, and still feels more “rigid” when it comes to configuration. Many apps have a simpler interface and are less frighting for newcomers.
    They are aimed at different users, I think any serious distro has to provide both, and let the users decide, like (K)ubuntu is trying to do, and Debian has been doing for a long time.

    Cheers.

  95. siduxuser Says:

    Awesome yeah!

    sidux is great, but it has kde/fxce-based versions only

  96. David Says:

    That would be great! Linux mint 9 was BETTER than 10. Because of ubuntu 10.04!

  97. asdacap Says:

    Doug:

    Obviously, you haven’t try Debian Lenny enough. Every package in Lenny felt like five year old program. Stable and fast of course. But very outdated.

    I think, Debian Mint is a very good idea. I really like the rolling distro thing. But if it is based on Debian testing… you have to be very careful. There’s a reason why Ubuntu is not based on it. And of course, not Lenny. How about based on Sidux? Just my opinion…

  98. Saphire Says:

    I love this idea if what I read about rolling releases is true that it is possible to get updated software (gimp, inkscape, scribus etc) when it’s released as opposed to waiting until it is placed into the current repositories as I do not like or know how to install using the alternative methods offered (compiling from source etc.) For some people its easy for me..not so much I waste hours and get headaches. Besides I’d rather be working. I use a lot of this software for my work and bug fixes and new features are essential. I hate the feeling of watching other people at the party trying the yummy cake and not being able to taste it until it’s stale…ok too dramatic but…I hope I’m not wrong about what I think a rolling release will offer because this sounds like a great project I would support. Keep up all the good work.

  99. tuxrider Says:

    Yeah, go for it! Certainly I’ll prefer a Debian-based system over Ubuntu. Man, I’m glad to hear about progress being made.

  100. Marius Says:

    Finally,something that will become real,not just only rumors,would be nice guys if in time you could become independent like PCLOS did with
    Mandriva(took the best of all distros and made the best one around,to bad it has no 64 edition);really would like to see the same,but with an emphasis on a Gnome desktop !For now,the debian testing base it’s something that many were talking about,but no one was really shure if it would happen !:)

  101. Ikey Doherty Says:

    @asdacap: Sidux is based on Debian Sid (unstable branch) which
    would pose more risks than the testing branch. I’m not sure
    how you feel Unstable would be better than Testing..
    As far as gnome and the underlying system is concerned, our
    present builds are just as modern as the existing Main edition
    of Linux Mint. However the LMDE builds so far have proven
    to be very fast and shockingly good on resources, our initial idea
    to use Testing in these builds has also proven fruitious :)

  102. Mithos Says:

    This is great. Mint has always been my favourite but I was recently considering switching to Debian because of the bugs brought on by Ubuntu. This would be perfect =D

  103. Rifester Says:

    Awesome! I will be following this development closely, and will switch all of my machines to Mint Debian. Thank you! I wish you success in your work!

  104. Becky Says:

    This sounds excellent!

    Can’t wait to see a good beta at some stage, because while Mandriva was a life-saver after the debacle of the problems with the last release of Mint, I’d like to come home…. and especialy not having to go through the re-install process to get an updated system every so often – that would be heaven!

    Keep us informed!

  105. Zoltan Toth Says:

    Waiting eagerly. Good luck!

  106. Daniel44 Says:

    This is really a new challenge. After the same errors with Ubuntu, I hope for a better system.

  107. Carlos Felipe Says:

    Being seduced is betrayal..
    Betraying to all users, donors and advisers,
    If I want a distro for old computers we have SliTaz, Puppy, Lubuntu,
    Now, I don’t understand this change of philosophy.
    If you explain to me saying that Canonical is complicating things, I understanded..
    And about: KDE, is very beautiful, I don’t deny, but is thorn in.., isn’t easy to use, heavy, and very problematic.

  108. Rob Says:

    Sounds good, I look forward to seeing it in action and receiving a disk when it’s ready. I’m still on a V slow broadband <512Kb so a disk would be welcome. All the best with the development.

  109. gizmodo Says:

    Carlos Felipe: read correctly. they aren’t moving away from ubuntu. there creating another version based on debian instead of ubuntu.

  110. F.Dionne Says:

    Hello
    For my part, I think for the future of LinuxMint is a wise decision. The last Ubuntu LTS came to me with some irritating problems. But above all I believe that Ubuntu will change direction and become increasingly turned to a more commercial aspect. At the same time they will lose the * community * Exchange. Well, orientation rolling release is an excellent option. That’s what I use for one year in dualboot. For that reason LinuxMint is not my first distro but I love Mint because is my first really system for my 2 years Lamba users.

    And the other think, I believe that currently there are too many distribution based on ubuntu. I think at this level overrides the bad side the good side ..

    Bonjour,
    Pour ma part, je crois que pour le futur de LinuxMint c’est une sage décision. La dernière d’Ubuntu LTS est arrivé selon moi avec quelques problèmes irritant. Mais surtout je crois qu’Ubuntu changera d’orientation et deviendra de plus en plus tourné vers un aspect plus commercial. Du même coup ils perdront au change * communauté* . Pour ma part, L’orientation rolling release est une excellente option. C’est d’ailleurs ce que j’utilise depuis une année en dualboot. Je crois que actuellement il y a trop de distribution basé sur ubuntu et cela a un bon côté mais aussi un mauvais. Je crois que à ce niveau le mauvais côté supplante le bon côté..

    that my simple opinion !

  111. Jack Halem Says:

    Dear Clem,

    Speaking for myself I have faith in your judgment.
    April 07, 2009 I installed Mint and life hasn’t been the same.
    Thank you.

  112. Ketanf Says:

    I have loved your distro for the last 3 years. The recent additions of the LXDE version has been great. A strictly debian version would be most welcome also. You have my full support and will provide feedback.

  113. lefty.crupps Says:

    Very excellent news, as I’ve always preferred Debian proper over the *buntu releases, especially for upgrade stability.

    Since so many distros are based on Ubuntu these days, usually including the GNOME desktop, maybe this would be a good candidate to focus its primary releases on KDE? Debian’s KDE is always much better than the Kubuntu desktops, IMHO.

    Keep up the good work!

  114. mintnoob Says:

    Exciting news! I’d LOVE to see a rolling release Mint distro!

  115. David Woronka Says:

    A great idea!this can be very good for Linux Mint, I can not wait for the Release Candidate! keep it up!

  116. jk Says:

    so it will be time to switch from ubuntu!

  117. merlwiz79 Says:

    I see a lot of people might not understand this correctly.
    The Main editions will still be based on Ubuntu.
    This is just a new edition based on debian.
    It is a separate project.
    Please don’t jump ship!

  118. Devlin Says:

    I see nothing wrong with having a side project for Linux Mint based on Debian, so long as Clem and The others at Linux Mint Keep Ubuntu as the Main Versions Mint named after Women who’s name ends in an [A] Another thing that concerns me is I have a strange feeling some of you who want Linux Mint to go full Debian want more than That. I’m afraid that you Want Clem to turn Linux Mint in To Slack Ware Jr, Doing T

  119. Mich Says:

    Seems like all the good things have been said by all the others above.

    My main OS is Debian TESTING with KDE all these while and Linux Mint is the only Gnome based distro that I can feel at ease with.

    Mint is the distro that I install for friends that wanted to give Linux a try due to its user friendly setup.

    If Mint is based on Debian and needed testers, will be glad to give a partition (not VM) on a brand new machine for testing :D

  120. Victor Says:

    I think it’s a great idea to pursue Debian base. Debian is a very reputable distro, my only regret is I haven’t looked into Mint sooner and found out about it from distrowatch.

    Regarding R&D, it’s an interesting issue. I am studying computer science at university and possibly considering doing masters or Phd down the road. Is there any material for Masters/PhD research in the area you are working on? What challenges are you faced with in switching to a different base? I am very much interested in Operating Systems subject.

  121. Yodeling Scanner Says:

    So this will be Spearmint then. I like it. A faster distro for us with a limited budget would be very nice. It would help us activists leverage it into schools etc who usually have semi-old hardware and zero budget (a pet project of mine, to destabilize the Gates monopoly).

  122. Eli Ednie Says:

    GO MINT GO! From the little I think I know about distro bases Debian has been described as “a tough nut to crack!” I had the mis-fortune of trying to install Gentoo earlier this year and, in defeat, I turned to Sabayon. Not as fast or robust as Mint or any …Buntu!
    If anyone can bring usability and stability to a new Linux user like me, you good people at Linux Mint can.
    Puppy LInux is doing some very interesting things with the Woof package management system or whatever. Also Slax has sort of a Apt on CD drag/drop OS builder.
    I picture a future where anyone can build their very own Linux OS from a graphical interface or text, if so inclined.
    Or you could just make with the Mint 9 KDE 64 and I’d never look back!

  123. nomadewolf Says:

    I think that more options, and different perspectives, is always good.
    That said, i think that changing from ubuntu to Debian is just wasting time, cause it’s having to do the some work that’s already done. And well lose the benefits of ubuntu (fast booting), which i like A LOT.

    About changing to RPM, that’s changing to the packaging system that had to copy DEBs features in order to achieve almost the same level of stability. Needless to say i don’t see myself using RPM anytime soon. It’s an inferior packaging system. I’ve used it, so i know. My distro was SuSE, a very stable, powerfull Distro with two major flaws: it was slow, and it used RPM. That’s why i changed. No more of that nightmare, please.
    RPM works fine, as long as you don’t need to uninstall anything, otherwise, your system is doomed…

  124. nomadewolf Says:

    By the way… A roling release would be fricking sweet!!!

  125. paoloschi Says:

    the genius has preceded me: this was exactly the desire that I wanted to express!
    but I was afraid to ask too much! and instead …;-)

  126. Bas Says:

    We from the dutch community ( http://forum.linuxmint-nl.org/ ) cant wait till it be here.
    We are hoping working on it wil be going as smooth as it can, and that we soon can work whit Mint based on Debian.

  127. Just an idiot would change it for something as common as 1,000,000 dollars Says:

    It’s so exciting watching people dream. But it’s more exciting watching people make their dreams come true. Congratulations for making your/our dreams always true. looking forward to you!!!!

  128. manny Says:

    The positive reaction of the community to this news is awsome. I know it will require the hard work of the brilliant minds of the Mint team to deliver a distro that would be the admiration of all. Go for it Clem, the community is excited about this project.

  129. Don Glenn Says:

    I have Mint 8, Mint 7, and Debian stable on my computer. Mint 7 is my goto for dependable internet communication. Debian is my “playwith” installation. Mint 8 I don’t use much. There are things I can’t get it to do. I think Debian is a great distro, but it is a little hard to use for novices like me.

  130. Charles Says:

    I think this is a great idea. Lately I’ve been having problems with Mint that I’ve confirmed are coming from Ubuntu. I’d love to see a Mint based on Debian.

  131. InfamousEric Says:

    I would give my left kidney for a MINT rolling release

  132. Alex Moldovan Says:

    Excellent! It would be nice to have a stable desktop that does updates along the years rather than update and/or reinstall at each 6 months and having issues with each release.Good work! I’m looking forward for the KDE edition. I think .deb is the way to go, and synaptic is a great tool. I can’t say the same for rpm’s of other mixes.

  133. Chris Beaudry Says:

    Based on Debian would be the best thing for Linux Mint. I would definitely welcome the opportunity to test that. I have nothing but good things to say about Ubuntu, but Debian is the highly stable mother distribution. Go Clem Go!

  134. Aggar Says:

    I can’t wait, this will be amazing!!!! A real Debian Mint, a dream cometh true…

  135. Charlie Says:

    Im all for this,Crunchbang recently went from Ubuntu based to Debian
    and i can say from that experience its just as easy to use,All the knowledge ive learned threw the years using Ubuntu based distros still work in Debian.For the most part.I took the time to learn the Debian text installer,And i must say i like it.When its available ill definitely be getting it.

  136. Chomp Says:

    Hi folks. I’m from the PCLOS community and came across this blog through our forums. I must say it’s very nice to see other distro’s users talk positively about our distro and a change from the comments I usually encounter outside our community, so I’d like to thank you. I’ve heard great things about Mint and you all seem like a really nice bunch, so I wish you luck and must say that the rolling distribution model is really very nice and one that I enjoy greatly. When(if?) you move away from an Ubuntu base and make a stable release I will definitely give your distro a run.

    Cheers,

    Chomp

  137. jonas Says:

    awesome idea. just wish you’d make a KDE flavour.

    i never liked the idea of a sub-sub distro (debian -> ubuntu -> mint).

  138. Chris Says:

    Wow, this is great news.

    As to the Gnome vs KDE debate, I don’t think this is the spot for it especially since the team does a great job of giving us both and then some. Although I would love to see a netbook version.

    To those who think they are abandoning Ubuntu they never said they were going to for sure.

    To those who think Debian is too difficult, the Mint team has done a great job of making an easy distro even easier.

    To those who only want x64 and don’t think old computers need to be Mintified. I would be willing to bet you don’t even need x64. I would be willing to bet that only 1% of the computing population needs x64. Just look at all the 32 bit vs. 64 bit comparisons on the web(I think Clem even did one for Mint). Unless you run a lot of RAM heavy application or just a lot of applications at the same time you probably don’t need it.

    Lets just have faith that they will keep taking lemons and making lemonade out of them. Keep up the great work Clem and crew.

  139. gee7 Says:

    This is really interesting, and am looking forward to using Mint with a Debian base sometime in the future, Clem. It’s known for its stability and that’s why Ubuntu is based on it; we Mint users would then be underpinned by the best base, rather than through an Ubuntu development of it … also .deb files are surely more stable and secure than .rpm files as used by Mandriva and Fedora,so it would be better to stick with them, wouldn’t it? Thanks for exploring the Debian path, exciting days lie ahead :-)

  140. keljaden Says:

    I love the idea of Mint using this rolling release, but I think it will require a lot of work. Personally I really dislike Ubuntu and the turns it has been taking. Another thing I am not a fan of is Gnome. I think it would be great of Mint started to focus on KDE (for bling), XFCE because it’s lighter and looks the same, and then LXDE/Fluxbox for those who want a lightweight DE. Also, it puzzles me as to why LXDE and Fluxbox are used with LM8/9 as the distro isn’t exactly “light” and the performance gains from using those two DE’s seems rather minimal to me.

    I feel that having the rolling debian release should take equal priority or be considered higher than the lightweight DE’s as PeppermintOS has that covered…

  141. Zubin Parihar Says:

    I think this is a great idea as long as the Ubuntu base is kept as the main. A lot of 3rd party apps are made specifically for Ubuntu and is incompatible with Debian dependencies. I think its a very important factor for future Mint success.

    But a rolling release sounds like a magnificent idea. I’d also like a to see a KDE Debian Mint Version.

    Hope all this happens!

  142. Christian Says:

    About RPM’s

    I’ve tried RedHat 6 beta release. I got the small RPM Hell at the first update: “Can’t resolve dependences for Chinese language support”, or something like that. :)
    Is it a distro? The commercial solution of Linux Desktop?! ;)

  143. tacoz Says:

    This is good news! I look forward to using Mint with a Debian base as Debian has a good reputation… that even Ubuntu recognizes and exploits. Mint would probably have a better base into the future and avoiding any Ubuntu gotchas. Great idea team!

  144. Mustafa al-Hamdani Says:

    RPM has a great feature that is not available in DEB, deltaRPMs, which is used by default in current Fedora releases using YUM Presto plugin, it allows you to download only the difference between packages not the whole package thus reducing the download size to less than half(it actually depends on the package itself) so until DEB comes with this feature, it is inferior to me.

  145. Parames Says:

    Hey Clem, it was a really good move to try out with debian. I hope you can bring out the best out of debain. ;)

  146. EspritBerlin Says:

    A rollig distribution ‘d be nice and my favourite option;
    I’d also appreciate Debian as a basis iff all the media extras maintain within LM 9 (10).

  147. smallstone Says:

    Maybe just like improve Ubuntu, how about make Mint under MEPIS which is debian desktop.

  148. Albert Says:

    tease!

  149. David Brown Says:

    If you are looking towards making a rolling distribution (which I think is an excellent idea), one idea that would be a huge step forward would be to use btrfs as the file system and support rollbacks. Fedora is experimenting with this idea:

    http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemRollbackWithBtrfs

    This makes rolling updates safe – if it turns out that you have broken something, you can always go back to previous steps.

    Anyway, thanks for the great distribution. My thirteen year old enjoys showing off his Mint 9 laptop to his friends and showing them how much faster and cooler it is than their windows systems! I look forward to mixing the power of my old Debian installation with the ease-of-use and appearance of Mint.

  150. Bruce Says:

    I think it’s a great idea. As much as I’m an Ubu fan they’re progressively adding more and more annoying problems that would concern me when promoting Linux to newbies. Equally, it might prove to be more trouble than it’s worth but I’d love to try out Mint-on-Debian. (Mintian?)

  151. drazenb Says:

    I applaud to the idea. We have tested several desktops for work (Consultant) and now use/recommend:
    Mint Desktop
    Debian or Ubuntu server
    I personally prefer Vector (Slackware) or Salix (Slackware) desktop on low resources computers instead of Mint LXDEr fluxbox as they are MUCH faster! (The option being Antix (Debian stable-testing, coming from Mepis)).
    The problem with ALL Ubuntu-based distros (Applies to everything else, BUT Slackware and Debian) is high RAM requiremnt. Lubuntu or LXDE Mint would never work on 128 MB machine where Vector Light flies (45 MB RAM idle) and Salix (60 MB RAM idle) is pretty usable.
    Antix, based on Debian is OK as well (70+ MB RAM idle).
    Sidux (Based on Debian unstable is really fast BUT you are not supposed to compile from source on Sidux as Debian unstable is a “fast moving target”, and that makes it unusable for us.
    Slackware based distros are easy to compile from source and fast. Debian is good but packages in stable are often ancient. I believe, MINT would be great as a rolling distro based on Debian testing, especially covering wider base of existing machines.

  152. drazenb Says:

    BTW, I understand that you have considered Slackware. What about that? Kongoni had nice idea on using Slackware AND ports system making the distro base more flexible.
    Any thoughts, Clem?

  153. drazenb Says:

    TO ALL AFRAID OF LEAVING UBUNTU…
    It seems it is NOT an intention of MINT. I see the reasons for staying on that base and it is OK. However, Ubuntu often has quirks and problems, especially after release and it does not have a reputation for swiftly dealing with all of them. Often it means waiting, even for the following release. Rolling Debian would, I presume be more stable IF DONE PROPERLY. IF you have people and resources for that. I do not see anything lost there. As far as I know, Ubuntu is recompiled from Debian testing/unstable for every release anyway!

  154. drazenb Says:

    TO SMALLSTONE
    Why go Mepis path? It is a debian based distro done by Mr. Woodford mainly, and it potentially can be a problem. (What if he decides not to do it any more). AND it has had wlan setup problems release after release. AND non-english users were not catered well for the same reason.

  155. drazenb Says:

    FEDORA?
    Fedora has certainly done A LOT for the quality and usability. User base confirms it indeed. However, I have often had problems with releases and I test EVERY release (internally) on at least 2 or 3 machines. And it is a RPM distro with all the related issues.
    We consider Scientific Linux and CentOS the most usable RPM distros. However, the packages are usu. older and you must not start playing with install/uninstall!

  156. Ginsu Says:

    This is great news, and something that I definitely want to try. My preference for a rolling release has recently led me to move away from Ubuntu and Mint which I had used almost exclusively for several years. Tried PCLOS for a while, but while it’s a great distro it somehow just didn’t quite do it for me. I’ve been using Arch on my two main machines lately, and loving it, though it takes a certain amount of, er, attention to detail. I have always been a fan of Mint’s interface enhancements, in fact I am using the Mint menu in place of the standard gnome menu in Arch. A rolling release, fast and efficient, Debian-based distro with Mint polish sounds like it could really be a beautiful thing.

  157. Rambo Tribble Says:

    This is an intriguing and exciting proposition. I think much will ride on the strength of the repositories, though.

  158. george Says:

    this is so great! finally mint grows up!

  159. Radimir Says:

    Wise decision, Monsieur Lefevre.

    While I do not like Ubuntu I recognize its unquestionable value and importance in the world of GNU / Linux.

    However the complaints against the bugs of the last three versions of Ubuntu have increased as never before seen, even in the field of his most faithful followers.

    I agree with the opinion of those who have decided to return to LinuxMint 7: Ubuntu defects persist in LinuxMint 8 and 9. There’s something not right in Canonical and contagion spreads in the distros that are based on their development.

    Therefore, I am delighted your decision to experiment with the old and familiar.

    Debian is not perfect, but its developers are constantly worried about the stability and security of the system trying to make things work very well before releasing their distro.

    I think the great contribution that LinuxMint could do for Debian is humanize it and give it the Mint charm which all of us love so much.

  160. Daniel Says:

    Great idea! I think it’s awesome that mint team thinks on Linux Mint based on debian. I used ubuntu and differents systems, and i think mint is just great, clean, elegant and stable. Besides gnome is really friendly. This new idea could be a way to make mint a much better distro.

  161. ginjabunny Says:

    I like the thinking, I did YES in the forum a while back on having a rolling release based on Debian.

    I recently tried installing Debian Testing and found it a bit of a chore having to track down how to install drivers and all the programs I normally use in Mint, so if you could Mintify it that would be perfect.

    Good luck with the project, keep up the good work ^.^

  162. adnana Says:

    “Debian is still the best distro out there as far as stability and quality”
    I agree with Doug.

    I have tried most of the popular distributions.
    Debian is the most stable & quality distribution that I have ever seen.

    Wise decision (Debian+Mint).

  163. Reader Says:

    I’d advise to keep with the CD distro release model for a possible Linux Mint Debian Edition. Quicker to download, reduces app clutter, takes up less disk space.

  164. Reader Says:

    I think a Debian Edition is a good idea but that it would be better in the long run to choose either a Ubuntu base or Debian base as the “standard Linux Mint”.

  165. Marcus0263 Says:

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

    A Debian based Mint I have championd for some time now, RPM hell no. but a Debian based Mint would be outstanding, the 6 month cycle of Ubuntu not to mention it’s quality issues are very problematic.

    Clem you’ve done an outstanding job with Mint, you have a great nose to know how to come up with a very usable and polished Linux distro. Cutting the Umbilical cord to Ubuntu is IMO the next giant leap in the Evolution of Mint.

    My two bit’s, make sure you have a 64bit release and along with a Gnome Desktop I vote for an XFCE also. Again I stress having a 64 Bit release, 32 Bit is a dead end, it’s time to move on.

    I run Mint on all my box’s other than currently testing Win7 on my Netbook (which will soon be back to Mint shortly). But at work I had to revert back to Mint 8 64Bit due to stability issues (upstream Ubuntu problems).

    Can wait for a Debian release!

  166. leodelacruz Says:

    Great idea! i like

  167. Bill Parker Says:

    Please do make a Mintified Debian system. I used Debian for years and was very pleased with it. It was always narley for a desktop system, though.

    Then,came Ubuntu and, in its early days, it was very nice, No more. Now, Ubuntu makes me appreciate Debian all over again. But, Debian is still too narley on the desktop.

    Ubuntu has really earned its growing bad reputation for outrageous bugs and I start to wonder how it will survive the long term if this keeps up. On the other hand, Canonical derives profits by selling technical support for Ubuntu. Is there a connection between bugs and service contracts? :>)

    A Mint distribution untethered from Ubuntu and based on a stable Debian release would be just Ideal. It is an almost perfect combination.

  168. John Says:

    I can’t wait to use it! I’m gonna have fun with it.

  169. poltiser Says:

    What I always liked about Mint is its polished ease of use – anything installed (almost) worked, to the contrary of Ubuntu. No nonsense software choices and installers. Using today U64-10.04LST I can compare how close to Mint Ubuntu came.
    The idea of “polishing” Debian for an end user is not new, but in your hands it is like a promise of a better os.
    I am afraid of too much freedom in software, which kills a cow giving milk – most of us, regular users just do not know what to do with such a wonderful gift!
    What about parallel development? To minimize risk? Modular rolling updates without dominating desktop? So I can avoid ever-buggy Evolution?
    I wish you find the solution, I trust you know better than us what to do with software – that why we need you!
    Best regards

  170. Graeme Says:

    Great idea. I was actually thinking of switching to Mepis (or even Antix) to get a Debian base. I like their approach of using Debian stable but providing recent versions of end user apps.

    I am rather put of Mepis by their attitude to criticism.

    I just installed Ubuntu Lucid on a new VPS web server, so I might end up with Debian (based) on the desktop and Ubuntu on the server!

    I am also looking at Unity Linux based distros and PCLOS to keep the Mandriva Control Centre (the main reason I use Mandriva at the moment), but they do not have the big repos Debian does.

    ANyway, good luck. As others have said there is definitely room for another Debian based desktop oriented distro – although I would prefer to see it based on stable (+ backports).

  171. @rchie Says:

    Goooooo! Mint based on debian

  172. hauser Says:

    A stable rolling release? It would be the best distro ever.
    Maybe you should take a more conservative approach for base system, making it stable and for the rest of the software like Firefox, OO, vlc… more frequent version updates.

  173. tomtom Says:

    Well, everybody talks about KDE vs. Gnome. On my laptop XFCE works the best… KDE did not work well from the start and Gnome from LM5. Since I just use XFCE. I tried fluxbox (too basic) and even with LXDE I got problems. So I have to stick with XFCE!

  174. sleep`walker Says:

    BRAVO!!!

    I use testing branch of Debian on my desktops for years, and I think it’s a perfect choice for desktop system. It’s a rolling release, packages are tested in a way (not just dropped in repository – like in SID), system is stable and fast…
    A minor problem is freezing – when testing branch is frozen there’s no rolling release, ad this can last for a long time. Also, after being unfrozen, in time when testing branch is heavily populated with SID’s packages, the system is unstable.

    All in all, bringing Debian’s testing branch to desktop users is a way to go! I think this will be my first choice for desktop system, once it’s finished.

    Great idea! Good luck with realization!

  175. yk Says:

    It is great to hear you are researching in this direction.

    I have been a Mint user since version 7, and have the 64bit version installed on all home pcs (personal, kids’, wife’s laptop).

    The idea of a rolling distro is excellent if executed properly, which I am confident you can managed based on prior performance :) . I have looked into PClinuxOS just for this reason, but am staying with Mint for now.

    I do hope you retain the deb package format and use Gnome for primary GUI. I would also like to see the 64bit version become the focus as I believe its time has come.

    Keep up the good work!

  176. Zwopper Says:

    Great news!
    The ability to chose DE during install would make this the “Be all, end all” of Linux distributions.
    *Keeping my fingers crossed!*

  177. Ricky Says:

    OMG, please do this!

  178. Zboj Says:

    I must say, I really, really like this idea. Anticipatly looking forward to see very first, stable release.

  179. Mike Says:

    I would like to try it and see if it solves the problems my laptop has with Ubuntu and Mint. Touch pad buttons are unusable, while an external mouse is fine. Trivial problems make an O.S. unusable sometimes. (oh and solving the run away scroll bar…) Can’t wait.—-mike

  180. Michael Z. Says:

    As someone who switched from Mint to PCLOS after a bad upgrade I have to say I think a rolling release version is a great idea. Perhaps there could be an LTS based on Debian/Ubuntu LTS and a rolling version for ‘non enterprise’ use? After finding out how easy it was to get new desktops and PAE/64 bit kernels in PCLOS via synaptic, (with meta packages for the desktops), I don’t even care if there isn’t a KDE version so long as different DEs can be easily installed.

    Good luck with the new edition, I’ll be waiting to try a stable version!

  181. Linus Says:

    Perhaps it would be a good idea for Linux Mint to develop a system on Slackware/Gentoo instead of/concurrently to Debian. These have a reputation of being faster, but perhaps a system built on these distros would be difficult to maintain.

  182. Stef_ph Says:

    +1, it would be great!

  183. Bruce R Says:

    I think that simply working on an alternative basis is a great idea, as Ubuntu seems to be getting out of control, trying to achieve too much and ‘fixing what ain’t broke’, rather than fixing what’s actually broken. Jaunty was the release that Hardy should have been, complete with a great burn and automatically verify Brasero for burning distro image files. LinuxMint’s greater attention to really important detail was great with Gloria, then hamstrung by Karmic and is beginning to look like having some continuing limitations courtesy of Lucid and the emerging Maverick, so ‘rock on’ with an alternative foundation. I’m not sure whether a rolling approach will further help configuration control, but it’s all well worth a try in my opinion. As ever, I trust your judgement, so fingers crossed, for another ‘release when ready’ endeavour.

  184. byte Says:

    isadora= Fat+Slowed
    mint on debian is great!!!!

  185. marty510 Says:

    Although I’m mostly a non-techie, Linux Mint has been very good to me………….since 2007….YEAH, LOVIN’ IT!
    I love the idea of a Mint project using Debian! And a Gnome desktop, LOVE IT, SOUNDS GREAT folks!
    If you can keep it all afloat and keep up with all the future progress in the ever growing tech world…………….as they say “The World IS Your Oyster”
    I have a feeling that this will lead to great advancements in the future!
    To Clem & team, I wish all the best

  186. Anonymous Says:

    I’m looking forward for this! Finally, a Linux distribution that is stable, fast, and great.

  187. Manuel Estrada Says:

    If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.Bad idea guys.LinuxMint 8 and 9 are both
    great OS why change now?

  188. Mustaf Says:

    Archlinux as base will be awesome I think even better than Debian

    Arch is almost bug free,please consider it @Clem

  189. linuxfan Says:

    “Great news!
    The ability to chose DE during install would make this the “Be all, end all” of Linux distributions.
    *Keeping my fingers crossed!*”

    Let’s hope not. Linux distros have spent too long in the no-man’s land of “offering the user everything”. It just confuses things and leads to an unelegant package. Linux Mint and others made a decisive break away from this model and the proof IMO is in the pudding that this model is better.

    As few options as necessary during install is best and a single desktop environment for the “main, standard” edition is best.

  190. linuxfan Says:

    A concern I might have about a rolling-release model is that there might be less opportunity to refine and improve the user interface.

    For example, if Mint were implementing significant changes to a core UI component such as the Mint Menu, how would that work?

  191. linuxfan Says:

    “And if possible, KDE desktop by default, because KDE have a development cicle constant and innovative, just like you.”

    Definitely a vote against. KDE is unelegant and ugly. GNOME is a much better choice; more credible, more professional.

    I don’t know much about KDE’s development model but perhaps it contributes to the lack of polish in the final product.

    As an aside comparing Qt vs. GTK+ apps – leaving out desktop environments – the GTK+ apps tend to look and feel better.

  192. linuxfan Says:

    http://www.google.com/&q=kde+sucks

  193. marty510 Says:

    YES!Definately

  194. distrohopper Says:

    Yes! I’ve been hoping that Mint would start a Debian branch. Can’t wait to see how this develops in the future! I’m very excited and hope you guys continue to push this forward.

  195. elcaset Says:

    I loved the Mint Debian livecd alpha from a few years ago. Please continue to make a version of Mint based on Debian. I would especially prefer a Mint Debian with KDE4, as KDE is by far my favourite desktop environment. Thanks very much.

  196. hinto Says:

    FWIW, I just installed the mint 9 tools,etc on top of sidux. To me, testing doesn’t really offer that much over ubuntu, except rolling releases. And the lack of rolling releases can be mitigated by a /home partition. I’d like to see a mint based on sidux. That would be bleeding edge, which would mean faster turn around on fixes/patches.

  197. drazenb Says:

    HINTO
    Hinto, I have tested sidux using it for couple of months. It was fast, low on resources and fully functional – on my rig at least! However, I need to use some business apps I need to compile from source and Stefan L-H strongly advised against that in Sidux, release being created on the basis of “stabilised” Unstable Debian. I believe he is right. It does give the edge to Sidux, but it makes it more difficult to use for some purposes. MINT is supposed to be stable enough for business and basing it on Sidux would be risky.BESIDES, Sidux has probably smaller developer base (I might be wrong on that) compared to MINT and is already based on Debian. So, what would be the purpose?

  198. Grok Says:

    A debian mint would be really great

  199. Marek Says:

    GREAT! Ubuntu and their new style really annoys me. New tray behavior just sucks. Less things working as it should with every release. I tried Debian squeeze and Fedora 13 lately, and they both were great. Only thing that wasn’t really well was nVidia drivers. I got used to have everything automatic in Mint, and in fedora i had to change something in xorg conf, grub, or wherever and in Debian there wasn’t drivers for default (trunk) kernel. So now I’m waiting for Debian-based Mint, cause even flash worked there great (I had amd64 version).

  200. knsridhar Says:

    sir
    linux mint is great and looks good as a desktop.but one problem is not recognizing wireless modems like tata and reliance and unable to surf the net using these wireless modems . Now a days these devices are common and mint should recognize these devices and automatically configure and ready to be used to surf the net without installing any extra softwares.
    thanks
    knsridhar

  201. hooya27 Says:

    Great! Variety is the spice of life (and live cds) – having more flavors will broaden LMs user base, search hits, and happy end-users.

    I personally try each desktop of each new version, and then give away the ones that aren’t my favorite. When a new LM stable comes out, I upgrade, and then give away my previous version disc. This way, I promulgate GNU/Linux with (imho) the best out-of-the-box distro, and can offer support to my friends and co-workers to whom I’ve given the media. Thus, I advocate FOSS, promote Mint, and recycle my older burns.

    Keep up the good work(s), and thanks for all your efforts there at LinuxMint!

    hooya27 (somewhere near) google (dot) com

  202. Giacomo Says:

    Awesome news!
    If this project became real i immediately swich from ubuntu to mint.
    In my opinion this is the only linux mint to maintain people need a fast rolling distro with an easy installer and easy pkg manager.
    The first distro that take this goal will be very used from all type of users expecially users that are bored to install a system from scratch every 6 months like me.

    Thank you!(sorry for english i’m italian)

  203. ubuntu Says:

    Ubuntu sucks! been using it for 5 years, I am sick of that OS… we need a rolling release! Debian based system.

    you might just blow ubuntu out of the water with this project…

  204. Norberto Feliberty Says:

    I think this is great. To me Debian has always outperformed Ubuntu and is more stable than Ubuntu. I believe any distribution based on Debian would be good.

  205. UbuntuSucksandMintisGay Says:

    Or just use pure Debian.
    Stable, or Testing (which is frozen and going to release soon, v6.0 and become stable)
    Testing installs are available at debian.org.
    Ubuntu this, Mint that… gay this gay that. Quit making Linux and Debian look stupid. Spin offs are just fine if they serve some purpose other than branding this sh*t out of it and worrying too much about it being user friendly. Go use Windows then.

  206. mOjO Says:

    you had me at faster & less resources…

  207. holyguyver Says:

    I cannot wait to run the Debian based version! :) I love the idea of a rolling Mint :D

  208. Anthony Says:

    Sounds good on the face of it. But we need to consider what or rather, who we lose if we dump Ubuntu: That is all the Ubuntu users who come over to Mint not necessarily because they are disgruntled but because they want the extra usability of Mint. In that, the familiar name of Ubuntu and being based on it is a very big plus.

  209. Ikey Doherty Says:

    @Anthony: Please read the post again. We are not switching from
    Ubuntu nor are we dropping it. This is an *extra* edition.

  210. Frank Says:

    Transform Linux Mint into a rolling distribution would be great.

    When I can dowload it ;-) )

  211. tux-sven Says:

    It must be something very VERY frightening about switching to Debian for this man “Ikey Doherty” He insists all time that “we will continue the Ubuntu track”. It’s something really strange about it!
    1. What has this man to do with Linux Mint? Isn’t his area the little Peppermint OS??
    2. Clem uses to listen the opinion of his Mint-users. If this thing about Debian-base is so wanted by so many, why should he totally ignore it?
    3. If i hear the “No Debian-base” statement from Clem himself however, I am ready to believe it. (And be sad)
    Due to my Ubuntu-crap-problems I will use PCLOS until Debian comes to Mint. I really hope it will!

  212. Clem Says:

    @tux-sven: Ikey is among the most active developers within the dev team. He’s also the only developer, with myself, currently working on the Debian-based edition.

  213. magrocontomate Says:

    … It’s So Sweet to Return Again to Mather…

  214. Sapa2ler Says:

    This is my 1st time using Linux Mint. Just install using mint4win.

  215. Chris Says:

    Hi all,

    I am new to Mint 9, I have used Ubuntu for a few years migrated from win-doze.

    My question: How soon will mint be independent and not rely on Ubuntu for Packages??
    I Really Like Mint so far.
    Keep up the Great work.

  216. lownslow Says:

    This is good news.

    I have been a linux users both at home and work for a decade or so, RHEL/Debian Stable at work and Debian Testing (xamd64) at home. I’ve installed and played with Mint for the last couple of versions but one thing keeps me from using it full time and that’s the *buntu base.

    I like that Mint has a lot of the end user stuff already done as it saves me setup time. I just never got the attraction to the *buntu’s, it seems like it offers nothing Debian doesnt already have. Mint based on Deb/Testing would be a good thing for me, hope it works out for you and it makes its way into steady production.

    I’m actually downloading Deb/Testing x64 right now for my new desktop at home, I came here to check out the latest Mint as well and saw this article.

  217. uncletom Says:

    Debian + Mint + LXDE + 64-bit = The best linux disto.

  218. Mark McC Says:

    This is exciting news. There’s definitely room for a user-friendly Debian-based distro, and based on my experiences with Mint you guys are the ones to do it. Ubuntu managed to build a decent system on top of Debian for many years, but I feel they’ve lost focus with their last few releases.

    Mint already distinguishes itself from Ubuntu by not adopting things like the Me menu, indicator applets and Empathy, whereas Ubuntu throws these new half-developed features into each release without ever seeming to go back to fix the bugs (who needs PPAs full of unstable beta software when Ubuntu provides LTS releases full of it? :P ).

    Debian seems more focussed on fixing existing issues in their current software base and IMO would make a good alternative base for a distro. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for more news on this project!

  219. 8BIT Says:

    Do this!

    It’d be awesome if you started doing rolling releases at version 10, that way it could be called Linux Mint X.

  220. joe Says:

    wubi with debian would kick all ass and debian rules i cant use it because i cant figure it out

  221. Ikey Doherty Says:

    @tux-sven: I wasn’t aware I’d ever been affiliated with Peppermint
    at any stage. In terms of “who’s known”, I’m pretty much unknown
    on the Internet, so I’ve no idea where this claim comes from..
    Clem has already stated we are not switching base, I kindly
    ask you to read the blog post thoroughly. I’m also unaware
    as to where you got that quote from.
    As for me I’m a developer with Linux Mint and I have been for
    quite a while now. If you look at mintDesktop and mintBackup
    you’ll see my name on the About buttons (Credits)
    Clem and myself are the only ones working on this edition, as
    previously stated in the blog post and by Clem’s last comment.

  222. Rudolf Says:

    I’ve used Ubuntu, Debian and Mint (in that order) as desktops and I far prefer Mint.

    I really like Debian’s rolling update system – plus it’s cleaner and faster so major bonuses there. However as a desktop it has many rough edges, after using it I gained respect for the work Ubuntu does.

    Ubuntu is not without it’s problems though. That’s what I like about Mint -> it’s Ubuntu + polish. What I do like about Ubuntu is it’s repositories, it has packages that Debian does not.

    So if there was a Debian based Mint that had the same degree of polish as Mint currently has and access to Ubuntu’s or similar repositories it would easily become my default desktop.

  223. Linux4life Says:

    Interesting to see !
    But I don’t think Mint would ever be so far as it is today without Ubuntu…

  224. drazenb Says:

    TUX-SVEN please read the post before making remarks. Besides, there is a reason and a cause for MINT to be based on UBUNTU to keep the user base growing. UBUNTU has never been perfect, almost every release has had glitches and bugs have often not been worked out promptly as desired. MINT has usually been a “better” UBUNTU. We use MINT as a standard desktop in our work simply because it takes very little tweaking for us and serves desktop purpose. We also use UBUNTU (JEOS) and Debian for servers, but those serve different purpose and are measured by different criteria. Not one distro is perfect for everything; some take less work than others. But the base is important. Debian is different from UBUNTU and is being developed form a different perspective. It does take more work and knowledge to make a fully functional desktop based on Debian. It is an excellent server distro, being stable and well tested and – on the other hand – a good way to learn about Linux. (As is Gentoo and Slackware.) I therefore respect and praise the new Debian initiative. Thank you, Clem, thank you, Ikey and the rest of the development team for all the efforts and good work…

  225. Craig Says:

    One more big “yes” vote for the debian based Mint with a Rolling Release…i think it is fantastic idea…especially done with your usually polish and great added features (over ubuntu)…

    As previously mentioned…if things work out well, please do a 64 bit version as well..I have used Mint 8 (64 bit) and now run Mint (64 bit) and it is great..also most newer desktop and laptops have the 64 bit chips these days…

  226. Craig Says:

    I meant i run Mint 9 now with 64 bit…LOL
    I “salute” you Clem and Ikey….keep up the great work…

  227. Ivanhoe1024 Says:

    I think it will be a very good idea!! I’m looking for a easy-to-use rolling release distro, and maybe this will be the end of my quest!

  228. tux-sven Says:

    @ drazenb ans others
    I think you are perfectly right. My thought was more like: Base=Debian, add those things from Ubuntu that works good, add Mint specific things…
    This should give a possibility to not adopt Ubuntu-software that is not reliable.
    Perhaps that will also include too much work? I don’t really know. I also have all respect to all developers that work hard with this. And I also want to thank you all for making a Linux-dist that I can easy install to former Win-users and they can use it directly, with almost no questions after the change from Win. :)
    I just want to get rid of the increasing (accumulated?) number of bugs coming from Ubuntu.

    Keep on your good work for Mint! :D

  229. Daschmi Says:

    I’m really looking forward to seeing what you guys do with Debian. I have not tried Debian itself, but if it is as fast as people say, I will be looking forward to the day that Linux Mint Debian CE comes out.

  230. Ikem Says:

    If you consider to make a Linux Mint LXDE version based on Debian, check out these links:

    Installing LXDE in 10 “Statler” (Debian-based)
    http://wiki.lxde.org/en/CrunchBang

    Easy LXDE
    http://wiki.debian.org/EasyLXDE

  231. Frits Says:

    Just one short question: When will the ISO be there?

    Best regards from The Netherlands!

  232. Xavier Sythe Says:

    I’m looking forward to the KDE Edition!

  233. tux-sven Says:

    @ Ikey Doherty
    I am sorry about Peppermint OS. I got it from a blog in quite another forum. I apologize! Please keep on designing the good Mint, I will be your tester. :)
    You know, the real big things done are not visible.. Often not WHO is doing them either. :)
    If i write a little strange it could depend on that English is not my native language.

  234. Jeff Says:

    @Frits: Reading the post would have answered your question.

    “Whether you’ll be able to try this out in a few weeks, in a few months or even next year is really hard to say at this stage.”

  235. samuel Says:

    You could make linux mint out of anything apart from windows. What’s important is that it remains linux mint, simple for those who want to use the computer but less interested in what is behind the desktop.

  236. Jurney to the life Says:

    That’s a good idea, and the test Korean version of screen looks very goooooood.

    Can I test the debian based mint? I’m a Korean.

  237. Francisco Says:

    Excellent news. Thank you for taking a free operating system that has helped me a lot because I do not have the money to buy windows possible. Thanks guys, greetings from Chile.

  238. ysNoi Says:

    Really awesome..! Thanks for the efforts Mint Team. I really love it now.

  239. gadgetboi Says:

    As like you guys hear my thought :lol:

    will be waiting :mrgreen:

  240. ronald Says:

    This is the next step that Mint needs to break away from Ubuntu. By doing this it can get out from under Ubuntu…..

    Im so ready to help let me know when its ready for RC….

    Good luck Debian Mint Team

  241. wels Says:

    It´s a great research project. The result could be more efficient and slicker than Ubuntu, which feels increasingly bloated. Debian is – imho – the ideal basis in terms of package management, available software, and stability.
    In terms of hardware support, I liked Debian-based Kanotix very much, especially for old hardware like my Thinkpad T21. Looking over there might spare you guys some work.
    Keep up your great job – thanks for a smooth, easy and powerful distro.

  242. SajukkTheEternal Says:

    I was dreaming for long, that I would one day see an announcement like this

  243. hamilton Says:

    Really good idea. For too long we have all been tied to one Distro or another, with Mints team you could create a really open OS. This will encourage all the open community to feel involved personally. If you can pull this one off…that is simple but thoughtful, you may go down in Linux history!

  244. lefto Says:

    awesome! i have been suporting this idea for a long time and its good to see it finally get going. i will do whatever i can to help testing in the free time i have from my kiddo’s. ubuntu has pissed me off with the newest release and im not a fan of mint 9 either due to the aggravating way the new notification applet shows up. it makes me thing that ubuntu is at the point where they are taking steps backwards, and i want to distance myself from that because mint 8 was close to perfection in my eyes. ive never been much of a fan of ubuntu but decided to test it before i found mint mainly due to the size of the user community andpackage base. the day i found mint and didnt have to deal with that aggravating ubuntu eyesore and saw the customizable python mint menu i knew this was where i wanted to be.

  245. David Says:

    YES!!! Please do this, and Fedora Mint would be awesome to =D

  246. Mik Says:

    I think that you have to be careful that your not seen as a jack of all trades and a master on none.

  247. handheldcar Says:

    I like this idea because I like Debian testing and Mint is one of the best distributions for beginners.

  248. runbei Says:

    Further thoughts to a reply posted early, above. Stability is a huge priority for me, as I use Mint 24/7 in my work. Thus, I’m not keen on Mint being continually vulnerable to trickle-down bugs from Ubuntu with its mad-rush (hype) six-month delivery schedule. I used Virtualbox very effectively with Mint 7, but on my system it simply would not work right in Mint 8 – in my mind, there is no doubt this was due to Ubuntu bugs inherited by Mint 8.

    So I’m always very interested in looking for a distro with a long-term release cycle and known stability. For me as a non-techie, that boils down to either Debian or Scientific Linux (which, despite its name, is a superbly stable, user-friendly distro based on RedHat. Because Mint is ultimately based on Debian, I chose to tinker with Debian 5 Lenny. Big mistake!

    I mean, Debian installed nicely on two of my systems, but the problem was, EVERYTHING from that point on required tinkering under the hood, with the associated frustrating searches for information. To get Debian to access my external Western Digital USB hard drive, for example, required finding out, after long research, that I needed to install the ntfs-3g application. And so on and on and on. I’m sure that Debian IS extremely solid and stable, once you’ve got it tuned to your hardware. But it’s just not for me. When I reinstalled Mint, it was like a breath of fresh air. No other distro comes close.

    My concern is that a Debian-based Mint might inherit some of the hardware install problems of Debian. I certainly hope not. Perhaps the Mint devs could pry under the hood of established Debian-based distros (SimplyMepis 8.5, e.g.) to ensure that all the bases are covered.

    Also, I would be extremely happy if Mint-based Debian were based on Debian Stable. I would laugh maniacally with delight. IMHO, there’s some very wrong thinking in the Linux world today, that the glamor and pizzazz and hype of an OS should come from tarting-up the OS itself. For my money, that’s a very, very bad way to proceed. Give me a stable OS with a five-year release cycle and cautious tweaks along the way. Then, give me applications that do stuff in a really cool, efficient way that gives huge control to the user, without slavishly following in Windows’ and Apple’s misguided wakes. There’s very little creativity in software these days, alas. As a full-time writer, I grieve for the days of WordStar. Much potential here for Linux. Meanwhile, a big cheer for Mint/Debian.

  249. raj Says:

    Waiting for this one for long time.

  250. Tony Says:

    I currently use sidux and whilst it is a brilliant distro, a Linux Mint based on Debian testing would I feel be more user friendly to newbies like me and retain the speed and and small size, so may I say a hearty “Yes please” to this idea
    Many thanks
    Tony

  251. Lozu Says:

    I always hated my ubuntu after what i did to 2 ubuntus by installing a program and the destroys the system itself. Linux Mint saves my life. I hope the new one good, i would vote 10/10 for this whole idea.

    Well, what do I say. We are basically leaving in a Linux Would I think… My chipped Xbox, PC have linux. I believe that some other items such as PDA, watches etc are made by Linux. Even mobile phones and camera, who knows? By the end of next 10 yrs we would see people using linux too.

  252. Grok Says:

    if u make a debian based, maybe included a mac window manager theme as default ;-)

  253. anrras Says:

    I think a linux mint based in debian is too much better than ubuntu; but archlinux IMHO has more features than debian (pacman the package manager of Arch, is more elegant that the APT, aptitude, dpkg, etc. besides of AUR, archlinux is optimized for i686, much lighter and customizable than Ubuntu, without metapackages, etc …

  254. JBHoren Says:

    Grok: If you’re running Linux Mint 9, go here for instructions about how to install the NEW (read: modified for Ubuntu/10.04) Mac4Lin

    http://maketecheasier.com/turn-ubuntu-lucid-mac-os-x/2010/06/01

    I “upgraded” an earlier installation of Mac4Lin, and this new one ROCKS! (gnome-globalmenu is awesome!)

  255. Ikem Says:

    Hi folks! I’ve found some bugs in Linux Mint 9 LXDE. I thought about reporting them, but I’m kinda hesitant. The reason is, the bugtracker is made for Linux Mint overall, not for Linux Mint LXDE, so my bugreport maybe get kinda lost because of all the other bugreports made for Linux Mint.

    My suggestion is to setup another bugtracker, dedicated for the Linux Mint LXDE version*. And changing the link on the startpage to the different bugtracker.

    Maybe you consider that for the KDE/Fluxbox/whatever version too?

  256. shiloh Says:

    This is the best news ever!!!!!!!! Finally not working from the base of Ubuntu, I Love It!
    Thank you dev team, i have been a user since 1.0 Ada and have never turned back!
    In re to environments: Fellow Mint Users, although I see several posts requesting versions of different environments, I would like to implore that Gnome be continued as the “default” environment. If others are needed by users because they “don’t like Gnome” then I think the users should take it upon themselves to install a different environment themselves. With years of proven following, use and success I don’t feel a change is at all a good idea.

  257. joe Says:

    i have linux mint lxde running on pentium 3 192 ram shows as 180 it ran very slow but heres what i did

    1 install gedit
    2 change swap to 90 or 95 depends on preference
    3 used remastersys to make updated live cd

    i would suggest this for a linux lxde light because i am running damn good here

  258. joe Says:

    just so you know i forgot to say im on a laptop with 2 mb vga card 440bx motherboard so really might want to check out

  259. Ikey Doherty Says:

    Regarding comment 239 (tux-sven):
    Hey no problem, we all make mistakes from time to time :)
    I can see now where you heard that misinformation, and I read
    it with a lot of interest.
    You mean http://www.linuxportalen.se/blogs/kylling/2010/07/05/bloggen-som-jag-inte-hittar-som-ber-r-rykten-om-linux-mintdebian right?

  260. tux-sven Says:

    @ Ikey Doherty
    Wow now I’m really REALLY impressed! You found it! Can you read/understand Swedish? I hope you like my “signature” in the blog posts also? ;)

  261. matt Says:

    I’m just wondering what the basis is for saying that debian is faster than ubuntu? Are there benchmarks to prove this or is that just common knowledge?

  262. jurugu Says:

    This ist great news.

    Going with debian will put your next to ubuntu. It brings a lot of benefits.

    Do it! It could become your main release!

  263. Greg Magnusson Says:

    I have just downloaded and installed Linux Mint 8 Helena and I have to say that this is the nicest distro departure moment that I have experienced so far. I am very impressed with Linux Mint 8. Keep up the good work.

  264. Martin Dosch Says:

    I like the idea of a rolling release system. :)
    I don’t care wether Debian or Ubuntu is the base.

  265. ChrisR Says:

    I find that ubuntu not as stable as it use to be. I think this will be a good step and if it takes off, i hope one day it will replace your ubuntu base OS

  266. joe Says:

    is there any way to have a secondary os kde mint without a dvd

  267. Murali Says:

    Any idea when Debian based Mint will be ready for testing/use?

  268. Danny Says:

    This would be epic.

  269. Boba Says:

    A BIG BIG SECOND for looking to Anaconda for inspiration on the installer. None other even comes close to it’s intuitiveness. Fedora is the only distro I’ve tried that gracefully handles my fakeRAID (which is a big deal for us dual-booting Windows gamers, I know you’re out there!). Ubuntu (and Mint by inheritance) has consistently neglected this quarter, while promising improvement. Prematurely adopting Grub2 was only the latest slap in the face. And yes, I know you can hack around all these issues, but why should we have to when other distros can manage it completely transparently?

  270. Rodislav Moldovan Says:

    Go Minty, Go!!

  271. Dragonfly Says:

    Perfect this will be just perfect if it will be user Friendly like every other Mint Release i can’t wait to get a Final version

  272. Steffo Says:

    This sounds great! I use Debian for several years now and Linux Mint has become my second favorite I’d say. I tried Ubuntu and other distros too but it always ended the same.. Debian! :)
    Just on thing, did you consider using the unstable branch (Sid) instead of the testing branch? There are a lot less problems with broken dependencies and testing is frozen when it is about to become the next stable release. And unstable is not as bad as the name suggests after all. I can’t remember having any major problems during the past 2 years.
    Well whether it’s based on testing or unstable I’m sure it’s going to be very interesting.


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