Mint 8 review: Raiden’s Realm

Samuel Wang wrote a detailed review of Linux Mint 8 Helena for Raiden’s Realm.

Link to the article:

Happy reading everyone!


Samuel wrote: “Linux Mint has really broken the tradition of poorly made custom respins and has nearly became a whole complete distro of its own.

–> One of the most heated discussions in the Linux community is whether it is good or bad to have so many distributions available. I personally think it’s good and if the maintainers behind them continue to maintain them it’s simply because their work pleases a part of that community. More options means more choice, some distributions aim at being themselves while others have for purpose to bring specific changes to their base. As tiny as these changes can be, if they bring something to people and make them happy, no matter how numerous these people are, then we shouldn’t try to discourage their efforts. The purpose of the Linux Mint project isn’t to improve Ubuntu or to bring specific changes to it, in fact it’s got nothing to do with Ubuntu, it’s to develop its own vision of what a desktop operating system should be. The same way it uses Gnome, Firefox, Open Office, it considers Ubuntu as one upstream component that it uses to achieve its own goals. Now, from a technical point of view, I won’t debate the fact that Linux Mint “is” an Ubuntu derivative, but from a project point of view there’s a radical difference between bringing changes to an upstream project and developing something by reusing upstream components and I guess it’s unfair to compare other Ubuntu derivatives with Linux Mint if their purpose is specifically to modify aspects of Ubuntu.

Samuel wrote: “Well, Linux Mint shares a few key items that it inherits from its parent.  The installer, Ubiquity, is still employed in the installation process.  Thumbs down to Ubiquity.  Ubiquity takes so much system resources ( okay not that much but a minimum of 512 mb ram is required to install) that it makes it unsuitable to run Mint on older Computers…( what a pity…).

–> That’s true, you need more RAM to install Linux Mint than to actually run it, and it is a pity. But I think it also has to do with the fact that there’s about 2.5GB of data on the CD, compressed with squashfs to a total of only 700MB. Decompressing all this and having it available live takes a lot of resources. I’m not sure the Ubiquity installer is to blame here.

Samuel wrote: “I don’t seem to fancy those self-advertisements that come with the installer…( reminds me too much of MS ) but I do appreciate the part where they said almost finish copying.

–> We can’t ignore good ideas just because Microsoft used them as well. Ubuntu came with these new slides in the installer and I personally think they did a fantastic job. From a technical point of view also, as a developer, I was impressed with how they implemented it.

Samuel wrote: “Another thing that amazed me was the boot time. It is really fast (about slightly less than 20 seconds on my old rig)“.

–> Again, credits go to Canonical for the work done on the boot sequence. They’re dedicated to making it faster and faster and we can appreciate this a bit with every new release of Ubuntu.

Samuel wrote: “The new Gdm is a thing to look out for. Sure it doesn’t allow you to use all the old themes available at gnome looks, but it does give an overall nice and coherent theme to the system.

–> I was disappointed by the fact that they broke backward compatibility with the themes and also by the new configuration of GDM. You need to use Gconf as “gdm” to change it and this is really awkward as users tend to do interact with configuration only as themselves, or as root.

Samuel wrote: “Finally at last, the desktop.  I love it when they give a welcome pop up.

–> Wasn’t that idea used by Microsoft as well? 😉

Samuel wrote: “Finally, this is the fancy and shiny app that you should look out for: The MintInstall software manager.  Things to look out for: Applications can be and are ranked according to users liking.  Applications are well-placed into each category  making search for apps rather convenient.

–> mintInstall got some drastic improvements in Linux Mint 8, but we’re only half-way there. We’d like users to be able to vote and review applications straight from the Software Manager and I also think there isn’t enough choice within the current selection, packages in particular should be visible in this tool so that users don’t need to switch back and forth between mintInstall and Synaptic. We’ll continue to bring improvements to this tool in the upcoming releases.

Samuel wrote: “Linux Mint and Linux Mint does really work great with older computers. They just need to do something about Ubiquity.

–> We’re happy with Ubiquity (it is, after all, among the best installers in the Linux world) and we don’t have plans to replace it. We’re working however on a Debian edition and in the scope of this project we’re developing our own installer. I don’t expect it to be as mature as Ubiquity anytime soon and especially not for Linux Mint 9, but it will catch up eventually and so when the time comes we’ll have yet another option to choose from, between keeping Ubiquity in the main edition or replacing it with our own installer.

Samuel wrote: “The MintInstall software manager is really great, making installing applications really a breeze.  IMHO, Mintinstall is what we need to break those biased opinions that installing software is difficult for Linux.

–> It’s one of our most popular tools and we’re really proud of it. I personally think it’s the best application for the job at the moment, and yet I don’t find it good enough yet. Software Management is going to improve in most distributions, we’re not the only ones innovating in this regard but we’ll work really hard to improve it even further for the next release.

Samuel wrote: “I personally would recommend it to any one who just came out of the windowed world or any one who is looking for a light and simple system.  Linux Mint 8 is really on the right track on making Linux user friendly..

–> Many Linux distributions are now user-friendly enough to please Windows users and to convince them to make the transition and it’s nice to think that we’re contributing to making this happen. Launchpad’s number #1 bug is “Microsoft has a majority market share“. At the moment, its status is at “Confirmed” and we’re all working really hard to move it to “Fix released”. With every new release we’re bringing people more and more good reasons to make the switch, whether it’s in Linux Mint, upstream projects or other distributions.


  1. To be honest, Linux mint feels like the only distribution I have used (and I have used many) that doesn’t feel like it was “designed by geeks for geeks”.

    That is the absolute greatest endorsement I can give this OS.


  2. intresting review thank you and keep up the good work with mint fellas ;p

    should we expect other releases or patches though ?

  3. intresting review thank you and keep up the good work with mint fellas ;p

    should we expect other releases or patches though ?

  4. it’s a great work of the Linux Mint team; i’m so impressed by your distro; I just downloaded it and installed it as soon as possible; Salute for you all.

  5. Ubuntu 9.10 and its Pulse Audio implementation broke my sound. Had to fix it to work (kinda, the microphone never worked at all on Linux) by following this extremely guide helpful (some button was turned to minimum, but that button was available only after installing some ALSA stuff).

    Also a couple of times the / partition got completely filled up, due to the fact that /var/log file suddenly grew in size up to 6 Gb (and left me completely puzzled as to why it did so).

    I downloaded the Mint live cd, and seemingly when I’ll install it I’ll have to go again through all the fuss to fix audio problems.

    All these aside, I’ve been impressed both by Felicia and Gloria, and I doubt that Helena will give me problems that are not Karmic-related. Keep on the good work, gain more and more users, with ’em more fixes too, and just maybe bug #1 will be finally closed one day.

  6. There are two main areas that beginners and not only beginners find difficult: installation and setting up/using a firewall.

    As more MS Windows users are coming onboard, we should produce good applications that aren’t unnecessarily complex. Having had experience of installing, often with difficulty, various operating systems in the past, I would say that the Linux Mint installer is the best one around: the step-by-step process has clear guidance and is flexible – if the user selects a wrong option, he/she can always use the back button and start again, which is great. Also the Ubiquity installation is very fast! Congratulations on a great installer, Linux Mint.

    For the firewall, let’s have one with a GUI and with the ability to instantly stop a connection if undesirable activity is seen … a Zone Alarm for Mint is needed so that as one is working online, an eye can be kept on security.

    Good work, Linux team, on a fast and friendly distro.

  7. @ gee7

    you can find the firewall -with- GUI btw. under Menu System Firewall configuration. And its easy to configure: enable/disable.

    To stop the connection to the net hit the net sign in the panel with a right click and stop it.

    Have joy.


  8. Very nice working here with Mint 8. Tiny bugs: Sofware manager and synaptic not ‘rockstable’. In the Gnome menu there are a few entrees wich often give notification that there is something with the mouse. And then the entree does not work. On another time it works (Hover is 50 here.) I have them switched off now for the time being, and by the way I like the small menu-applet better. That’s working a 100% and corresponds fine with the menu-editor.
    Streamtuner had only Xiph, but I use an old one now. That works fine.
    I suspect Ubuntu made a lot of changes and so the Mint-team ánd the Remastersys-guys did a great job.
    It is beautifull and ‘dances like a queen for you’.
    But… I can’t use on a ext3 multiboot system ext 4 and use now ext3.
    Grub 2 also breaks my system. After install I do a redo MBR for correcting the bootloader. A sort of Grub 1 overlay. Then all is okay.

  9. The fantastic gui, and the extensive features are currently converting many a windower these days. I might have just converted a classmate of mine who always said, “linux sux!” But low and behold as soon as I showed him linux mint in all its glory, it was a complete turnaround. At first windows was what people wanted but they just took it too far in the wrong direction. I say go ahead mint-people and all linux developers alike, take what you can thats good from windows and leave the bad. I would love to see linux really take market-share and fulfill the gnu-linux destiny. VIVA MINT!

  10. honestly speaking, Mint is the only Linux I’d recommend to non-techie people
    (i’ve deployed 3 PCs already… only praise I’ve heard)

  11. Did I read it right? A Debian based spin. I will definitely be using it. Is it going to be based on Sid or Lenny?

  12. I’ve tried very hard for many many years to find a distribution that I can really use. Yes, I’m a”new” to LINUX (my first distro was slackware around 1996). Though I’ve written a lot of embedded software (that’s “hardware oriented embedded” to some of you) I really don’t think I should have to do a lot of work just to get the OS working. I really like having my “tools” work without having to work on THEM. For this reason, I’m very happy about Mint, the sound works, the DVD player works. It has been this reason that I’ve been so hesitant about switching to LINUX.

    Thanks to the Mint team! You’ve done a great job!

  13. Is the Debian edition actually still a project that’s active? I didn’t realize that was the case, since it seemed to have stopped a couple releases ago.

    I’d be very interesting in more news on that. I’ve been tempted to try Debian a few times, but turned away from it when I figured that it would be a waste of my time, with Mint being such a big step on top of it. Still, the rolling release of Testing or even Sid is intriguing to me, and it’d be great to see something developed by the Mint team to get a version closer to Debian in that respect but still very user-friendly.

    Not that it’s the technical side of Debian that makes me worry. I’ve tried out other distributions much less user-friendly than Mint. It’s just that it seems hard to justify using something which is literally a less user-friendly version of the same system, when I have a perfectly capable computer.

  14. If it “takes more ram to install than run”, and that causes a problem.. it’s solved by installing Mint-8 in a newer high-ram tower, then transferring the loaded-hd to the low ram tower…

    Mint is obviously a labor of love, dignity, purity, and honesty, a gift to the brotherhood of man… We truly have the best of the best when we run Mint…

    Plus, the “Windows Storm e-virus” is set to exterminate all Windows OS’s connected to the net when it hits the Net upon the Storm creator’s death.. Storm will destroy the global economy when it hits humanity, by erasing the world’s small business records… once Storm is in a Windows OS, everything in that OS irretrievably dead… Mint could prevent that if everybody installed Mint on their Windows hd’s, as a backup-OS for when the Storm “hits our fan”.. Yay Mint.. Yay Clem, a true brother to all 6-billion of us.. I wish you were running the world… You have my vote…

  15. The thing I quickly noted that’s missing from the Mint menu is a link to Help, the 1st thing a newbie will need. Also, Search is missing or is that what Filter does? That’s a question Help could answer. Otherwise, this looks like the distro I’m seeking.

  16. My experiences in upgrading mint 7 to Helena mint 8. I went down the road of upgrading through the internet installer (I did not do a fresh install) and it took bloody hours, not that Im upset about it and I did have the time, well 9 hours to be exact, it seemed to me that mint 8 downloaded all the software twice. After the actual upgrade that went quite well UNTIL I decided to implement the grub 2 (bang disaster) couldnt boot my machine now I am experienced installing linux systems and didnt see the notification for setting the hard drive (take note there should have been a big red warning sign steeping you through the process) I ended with an error 15, thank god I had a mint 8 disk handy and could reinstall the original grub program, but afraid newbies might not have got this far and gave in. the only other problem I had was the system kept freezing up solid and I thought that the problem was with firefox or evolution both of which I would usually have open at the time, so I used opera instead and had the same problem. BUT its now fixed, to me the problem seemed to be firefox (still dont know why opera frooze as well and there was no log record to tell me) I uninstalled firefox 3.5 (my original firefox 3.0 disappeared altogether and when I did re-install it, it went through the process and still didnt install, go figure) I re installed firefox 3.5 through synaptic and now I dont have any freezing problems, still not sure why I had this problem. My third problem was that virtualbox vanished completly from off my system, this was important to me as I run MYOB in windows xp for my business accounts. has a newer edition and I installed that and was relieved to see my xp container file still there and accessible. My biggest tip for anyone with problems installing ANY linux system is that GOOGLE is your friend,(and so is your boot disk) and if you cant find what you need re write your sentance to what your trying to find, for example if you cant find the problem such as “freezing”, then look for “locking up” I am now a happy Vegemite.

  17. cant wait for wubi i hope that doesnt slow down windows but i need both and to be clear does this come with ext4

  18. I thought about the RAM problem. Wouldn’t it be possible to install a minimum system so that the installation requires just 250 MB and to make a link on the desktop of the fresh installed linux to install the rest of the software (office, thunderbird, firefox, gimp,…) afterwards? This probably would mean to make two parts of the cd: First part: minimum system. If the user hase more than 512 MB RAM, the second part of the cd is automatically used in the installation process. If not that second part is used later.

  19. Really cool Idea Jon! Choices are always wonderful!!

    We could have a timed autoselect of default option (based on memory available.. as suggested by jon) or we can manually select a quick-minimum install. somethink like we have while mint boots up… 3 options.

    It would be amazing to have a blazing fast install and I am sure the second part (once we are loaded in the installed mint) .. would be fast as well!


    Seriously cool idea. thanks Jon.. Lets hope, this is implemented in coming releases.

  20. Can we also have GUI based hardware tool?
    1. To see newly plugged in / installed hardware, check what drivers are used as default,
    3. to check in (various) repositories and even other/personal/corporate websites for the drivers,
    4. check if windows version of the driver is available
    5. and if any one has used it and succeeded.
    6. then install the drivers temporarily (to test it)
    7. and then permanently install it.
    8. ask for the feedback for that installation and share it
    9. post a need for driver
    10. update the requester with newly available driver or version.

    Forgive me if I have overlooked any tool which already does this.
    I havent come across it as yet. I am newbie and I hope its okay to put new ideas in here.

    (I was inspired by Jon.. thanks Jon )


    A BIG BIG hug for all of you Mint team.. including the users for being a wonderful community of makers and users of one of the fantastic creations of mankind.


  21. I don’t know if this is the place, but, is too hard for a distro to have an installer that let you choice which applications DON’T get installed? I’ve used Mint since Linux Mint 5, and almost always I do uninstall Thunderbird and Rythmbox among many other apps.

    Anyway, I keep using Linux Mint. Is a great OS (not the best, but a great one. And it’s free!).


  22. im new to linux and i really like mint. the only problem ive had so far is making dvds out of mpeg downloads. i still have to switch back to windows to do this otherwise mint would be my only operating system.

  23. Oh my, no need to get rid of the Ubiquity installer. Another easy way to make a disk that will install on most any old computer is to just make a NON-LIVE DVD(install only mode), so its not compressed with squashfs, and 2.5 gig would easily fit on a DVD. I would think that would significantly reduce the resources required for installation.

    Thanks for a SUPER distro 🙂

  24. I am a Redhat > SUsE > Opensuse > Ubuntu > Mint convert. I switched over to Ubuntu 8.10 and then to 9.10 because I got a new PC with ATI Radeon graphics, which never worked fully with Opensuse. After using Opensuse for many years, I could never be quite happy with Ubuntu. Splash never worked and when I tried to fix it Grub 2 , it went awry. Desktop was quite staid. I needed a lot of work to spruce it up. I had to reinstall the system. Then after a stability of 2 weeks I applied all those updates mindlessly and after reboot I lost graphics and whatever I did could not revive it. Instead of installing Ubuntu the third time, I decided to give Mint a try. Now I have a desktop which is almost as good as Opensuse. The Mint menu needs some more improvement. Yast will be missed. However having all the debian repositories will balance that. Great distro, keep it up.

  25. I am very grateful to all the people who have contributed to Ubuntu, and from there to Mint . . . especially MINT !. Years ago I was a Mac ( old world ) user. Then aclient paid me, not in cash but with a Windows desktop. 98Se was okay as long as you ran “defrag” every day and updated virus definitions hourly . . . Pro2000 . . . XP . . . OSX . . . Redhat . . . long story . . . eventually I started using Ubuntu PPC, Mandrake, PC Linux, Fedora . . .
    Then one day a friend suggested Linux Mint. And it has changed my life. Not only have my unsightly blackheads disappeared, but also at last I can rely on my computer to do what I tell it to do ! ! !
    Okay, I was lying about the blackheads, but I definitely don’t bite my nails or yell at the kids 10% as much as I used to. Thankyou so much.

  26. A Debian edition?? AWESOME. Keep up the great work. My current mission is to convert as many people as possible. The last person was a complete linux newbie with hardly any computer knowledge and who hates change and loves microsoft. Well used to… Now he loves Mint

  27. I’m impressed. I used mint 7 and really liked it except for the problem with full screen flash. Mint 8 has fixed that problem and I’m a happy camper. Great job to everyone who worked on this distro.

  28. Great Linux distro. My wife uses it every day and it is faster and more stable than windows. She is not a computer tech and it is easy to use. I use it as well, great ideas and I hope to continue to see improvements. This is the best free OS, an OS needs to be able to be used by all to be effective. Thanks to the Mint team

  29. I’ve been playing with the idea of using Linux for nearly 5 years, installed a great many distro’s including suse, mandrake, redhat & fedora, Ubuntu, and finally linux mint. A few times I’ve said to myself “hooray I finally have a replacement for windows!!” only to find something 2 days later that either seems to break my install or forces me to swap back to windows. Finally it seems as though i just dont need that windows install anymore. I havent had a reason to boot windows for nearly a month now and I truly hope linux mint will stay my #1 distro for a good time to come 🙂
    Way to go LinuxMint Team for a job truly well done!

  30. I am a new user in the linux world and I know that one of the most important things for people who just use the pc for fun and Internet is to find an os can play all types of media.
    many people don’t mind of saving $$$ by switching to linux ,but they would like ( a ready installed fully media support )
    I used to do a few steps when I install any linux distro ( in my case ubuntu + mint )
    1-installing none free codecs like w32
    2- Microsoft fonts for a better websites support ( the once who use ms fonts )
    3-the popular msn program , emesene ( since it support my Arabic language and have the same (Windows live plus )futures .
    4- point the distro to medubuntu resources ( for the none free codecs )

    I don’t know if it’s alredy in mint but i do it with ubuntu ,and know do it with mint .
    mint is my favorit system and it earn my trust as well as many people .
    hopefully to see those things already in mint ,so it became a system that once you install it , you won’t have to install any thing else 🙂

  31. I tried Ubuntu sometime ago,then I installed Mint 7 on a USB pendrive from and tried it on a few computers just running Mint 7 from the USB drive.I took the plunge and did a full install on my my MSI Wind replacing XP,now I find I am using Mint more now than my other computers.

  32. Mint is great except for pulse audio. Countless hours have been wasted trying to get that beast of a thing working but it’s always hit or miss. If anybody attempted to sift through the endless blogs on Pulse they would realize immediately just how great a mess it really is. the good news is that if you don’t use Audacity or other similar tools, Mint will perform reasonably well, but the combination of Skype, audacity and Virtualbox is nearly always fatal in my experience. As a result I have had to return to dual-booting XP and Mint. I think the Linux community shot itself in the foot with Pulse. I remember Clem condemned the premature release of KDE4 but Pulse is far far more buggy than KDE4 ever was. Sorry to rain on the parade but I feel depressed everytime I log into MS to work on audio files.

  33. After using Mint 8 for few days I found a problem. When I suspended Mint8, it would not restore by either pressing the keyboard or moving the mouse unlike Mint7.

    Futhermore on the Mint 7 the power management icon on the taskbar provided an option to suspend by left clicking the mouse. This option is now not available on Mint8.

  34. About Ubiquity, can I run the installation on my current Quad core rig and move the hard drive over to my older (P2 256Mb ram) computer?

  35. I was delighted to read that Clem wrote (in response to Samuel’s dislike of the installer): “We’re happy with Ubiquity (it is, after all, among the best installers in the Linux world) and we don’t have plans to replace it.” As someone who has tried, and continues to try, a great variety of distros – and as someone who places a very high value on the greatest ease of installing multi-boot systems – I would have to say that the Ubuntu family, using Ubiquity, has always made multi-boot partitioning easy for newbies. The importance of this can’t be overestimated, since a big part of my job as a FOSS disciple and proselytizer is demonstrating to fearful newbs how easy (and versatile) it is to install and try it in a variety of situations and configurations – including, most especially, with other operating systems. A simple, friendly, GUI installer which makes multiple multi-boot (e.g. quad-boot) easy for a total newb is a premium selling point; damn the torpedoes if it takes a whole 512 MB!

    Frankly, I’m shocked there are users out there who are looking at Mint, which is probably the first FOSS EVER IN HISTORY to at least start to give BOTH Windoze and Mac OS a run for their money in terms of out of the box newbie user friendliness, and are actually complaining “Waah, it won’t run on my 233MHz Pentium II with 128 MB”. Excuse my language, but what the f*#k do you think Xubuntu and #! are for? In case you haven’t noticed, Clem et al are engaged in the clash of the titans – this is the match being fought in the big ring. The big ring is about everyday users – who do not know one, single command. They don’t even know “cd”. There’s about a zillion distros for people who want to jerk off the CLI all day. Plenty of others for low-resource/older rigs. I would have thought 5 or 10 minutes spent on a Mint desktop would have made it clear to any ordinary user: Mint’s not concentrating on those fights. Mint’s in the big fight. The world market fight. The grandma and grandpa, and girl next door users. The total newbs who are scared of CLI. Who don’t ever want to see a CLI ever in their lives. They want point and click GUI. That’s why they buy Windoze and Mac.

    And now, that’s why all the mom and pop users I know are letting me put at least one Mint Linux machine in their house.

    I thought the day would never come when my clients would let me set them up with linux machines. Now, thanks to Mint it has. I’m sitting here in my lab at my office watching the very beginning of FOSS market revolution. And you goofballs are crying about an installer needing a measly 512 MB?
    You guys should be ashamed.

  36. DonaldJ said very well some of my thinking. I have used Mint since several years, and Mint have saved ALL of my sinking mswindows systems.
    Mint is indeed ‘a labor of love, dignity, purity, and honesty, a gift to the brotherhood of man…’ as DonaldJ said.
    Mint shines when executing mswindows software (both via wine and via a virtual processor like wmware // linux version of course). Some apps execute FASTER than in native mswindows systems!!
    This version is very well conceived. I stay with Mint since I have meet it, and I will stay with this superb version.
    I could also repeat the thinkings of Cindy (in spite I use various Linux systems, since 1996).

  37. I am a Nongeek and have installed Mint 7 as the sole OS on three of my Nongeek friends computers. One of the machines was an old Toshiba Satellite with an installed and troubled Win 98 on it. All three installations work perfectly. My Nongeek friends love it. The only trouble I found was with getting Pulse to work and Audacity to record on my own desktop! For me, Pulse, Audacity and Network Manager need a fix and getting help for them is tedious and complex.

  38. I tried so many distributions during so many years, but some significant shortcomings always pushes me quickly back to XP. Well, a good thing with Mint 8, it solved the digital audio output and codecs problems I had with Ubuntu and OpenSuse 11.2. That’s something!

    The only problem left over now with Mint 8 and other Linux distro’s, is slow video. 1080i I can forget it, even 720p hesitates so now and than. Under XP this all is no problem. I downloaded and activated the by the OS suggested NVIDIA driver, but still.

    Is there something I have overseen or is it just a shortcoming of Linux that can’t be avoided without a hardware upgrade? System specs: Intel dual core E4600, 4 Gig memory (PC6400), an Asus EN8600GT for video and an Xonar D2X for sound.

  39. As for CD/DVD burning I would recommend “K3b” which is tmho handsdown the best burner for Linux. No Mpeg or ISO problems. As a bonus you’ll get a few ‘spareparts’ of KDE4 to it, which makes adding KDE4 desktop manager (kwin) and Plasma a breeze, so you could switch sessions between Xfce, KDE4 and Gnome, all under a MINT-8 supervision…, no need for a Mint 8 KDE special.
    I agree fully to the opinion to make a smaller sized, basic LiveCD, without OpenOffice for example. Then to update that in the now regular way (f.ex. new kernels etc.) and leaving the software expansion to the Software Manager and its clever “Recommended” department. That would overcome small system RAM and Ubiquity problems. I undressed a not-updated Mint 8 install and produced a ‘remastersys’ LiveCD for my wife’s smaller system. From there I then upgraded everything to a full blown version. Works perfectly!

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