Monthly Stats – September 2011

Written by Clem on Monday, October 10th, 2011 @ 10:23 am | Main Topics

Donations & Sponsorships:

Many thanks to the following donors and sponsors for financially supporting Linux Mint:

Donors:

  • $100 (6th donation), Andreas S. aka “Unforgiving67
  • $100 (5th donation), Gregor M.
  • $100 (3rd donation), J.-Yves Lortie aka “amadeus128″
  • $100 (3rd donation), Roland Stohler aka “ro@st”
  • $100 (2nd donation), Robert Pilgrim aka “robfuscate”
  • $100, Warren A.
  • $100, Mohee J.
  • $100, David B.
  • $100, Jeff S.
  • $100, Stephan T.
  • $81.8 (8th donation), Laurent P.
  • $75, David G.
  • $70, Martin O.
  • $69.4 (2nd donation), Vincent V.
  • $69.4, Alan H.
  • $68.17, Robert S. aka “Franzisskuss”
  • $55.5 (6th donation), Pasi K.
  • $50 (5th donation), Tsuguo S.
  • $50 (4th donation), Tsuguo S.
  • $50 (3rd donation), Tsuguo S.
  • $50 (3rd donation), Carlos H. G.
  • $50 (3rd donation), G. Sheffield
  • $50 (2nd donation), Lockert P.
  • $50 (2nd donation), Tsuguo S.
  • $50, Arend Rietkerk aka “fliteshare”
  • $50, Robert F. C.
  • $50, Gary B.
  • $40.9, Giuseppe Ficara
  • $40, Rich H.
  • $35 (24th donation), Slavoljub aka “slw”
  • $34.7, Daniel H.
  • $34.7, Andreas S. aka “Schoni”
  • $32.38, Ron D.
  • $30 (2nd donation), Alex Dolhescu aka “alex894″
  • $30, Shaun I.
  • $30, Gregory C.
  • $27.8 (19th donation), Olli K.
  • $27.27, Jean-Yves Z.
  • $26.75, Jeroen F.
  • $26.75, Neil O.
  • $26.51 (24th donation), Manuel F.
  • $26.16, Alfredo V. V.
  • $25.9, Marcus L.
  • $25 (9th donation), John M.
  • $25 (4th donation), Happy Nerds Workshop aka “linuxdevman (scotts)
  • $25 (3rd donation), Peter T.
  • $25 (3rd donation), Joshua B.
  • $25 (2nd donation), Adam D.
  • $25 (2nd donation), Gene C.
  • $25 (2nd donation), Kent K.
  • $25, Marinko Tarlac
  • $25, Pierre G.
  • $25, rjdsc
  • $25, Daniel S.
  • $25, Axel H. A.
  • $25, Rodney S.
  • $22, Galen T.
  • $21.21 (2nd donation), Tobias A.
  • $20.93 (2nd donation), Ashley S.
  • $20.82, Magnus K.
  • $20.45, Sven A. aka “Sven”
  • $20 (15th donation), Antonio M. aka “Rob Brill’s book-keeper”
  • $20 (6th donation), Anders B.
  • $20 (6th donation), Ian M.
  • $20 (2nd donation), Frank J.
  • $20 (2nd donation), Vincent P.
  • $20, Samue I.
  • $20, Константин Д.
  • $20, Drew Salmons. aka “Geronimo”
  • $20, Guilherme R.
  • $20, John F.
  • $20, Geoffrey G.
  • $20, Perry B. aka “uga_boy”
  • $20, Mitchell C.
  • $20, Mark S.
  • $20, Pedro E.
  • $20, Brian S.
  • $20, Brian B.
  • $20, Jon D.
  • $20, Michael M.
  • $19.62, Detlef K.
  • $17, William C.
  • $16.36, Ashley S.
  • $15 (4th donation), Sinisa Majstorovic
  • $15 (3rd donation), Andras Porga aka “GodmaNZ”
  • $15 (2nd donation), Stefan W. aka “querwurzelt”
  • $15, Laurence G. aka “The_Gooze!”
  • $15, Thomas E.
  • $15, Pat C.
  • $15, Caboodle C.
  • $15, Miki K.
  • $14.7 (3rd donation), D. Manoj Prabhu aka “Munna”
  • $14 (2nd donation), Matt R. aka “kiswa”
  • $13.9, Esben M.
  • $13.9, Eric B. aka “ProudPaw
  • $13.9, Moritz K.
  • $13.63 (15th donation), Paco C.C. aka “kannabix”
  • $13.63, Patrick S. aka “pAt”
  • $13.63, Bryan T.
  • $13.63, Mario G. B.
  • $13.37, Daniel F.
  • $13.37, LIXC Software
  • $13.37, Are J.
  • $13.37, Michael S.
  • $13.37, Armin K.
  • $13.25, Antonio H. O. aka “Azkanel”
  • $12.95 (4th donation), Peter Portin
  • $12.95, Eneko M. E.
  • $12.95, Daragh Moriarty aka “dazmoriarty@rocketmail.com
  • $12, Keith W.
  • $11.11, Amy W.
  • $10 (7th donation), Tony C. aka “S. LaRocca”
  • $10 (5th donation), Geschenkideen
  • $10 (4th donation), Astap A.
  • $10 (3rd donation), Jarkko K.
  • $10 (3rd donation), Robert T.
  • $10 (3rd donation), Costas Krallis aka “sv1xv
  • $10 (2nd donation), Piermario R.
  • $10 (2nd donation), Andrew Simpson
  • $10, Joseph E.
  • $10, Peter Larson
  • $10, Marcin W.
  • $10, Suleyman Y.
  • $10, Tim W.
  • $10, George B.
  • $10, Anze S.
  • $10, Sergey N.
  • $10, HawkinzWeb Designs
  • $10, David E.
  • $10, Ricardo P.
  • $10, Zetay Lee aka “zetay
  • $10, Milosav P.
  • $10, Sattam Alharbi aka “SattamJH”
  • $10, Robert J. H.
  • $10, Jan P.
  • $10, Paul G.
  • $10, Mehmet B. Y.
  • $10, Nikolas K.
  • $9.68, Martin P.
  • $7.77, Balasi B.
  • $7 (2nd donation), Antonina K. aka “Tonya”
  • $7, Arnold Bechtoldt aka “arnoldB
  • $6.82 (6th donation), Ronald T.
  • $6.82, Albert J. P.
  • $6.8 (10th donation), Ulf S. aka “MonteDrago”
  • $6.7 (2nd donation), Jurek W.
  • $6.48, Jan V. P.
  • $5 (7th donation), Michael Gstettenbauer
  • $5 (3rd donation), Leon
  • $5 (2nd donation), Ruben C. M.
  • $5, Stephen P. C.
  • $5, Joel P.
  • $5, My Caring Connection
  • $5, Jerry M.
  • $5, Robert K. aka “Hamm
  • $5, Steven P.
  • $5, Kristian B.
  • $5, Pawan Kumar aka “PK”
  • $5, David E. aka “DubiousAlliance”
  • $5, John F.
  • $5, Andrew K.
  • $4, Edoardo G.
  • $3.88, Csilla F.
  • $3.5 (2nd donation), Ron Panduwana
  • $3.33, Pradini P.
  • $3, David Y.
  • $2.8, Jose M. M. aka “Vacceo”
  • $2 (6th donation), mold test kits
  • $2 (2nd donation), Luca M. B.
  • $2 (2nd donation), Philip Patrick Butkiewicz aka “bagnz0r
  • $2, Jithin J.
  • $2, Samuel L.
  • $1.94, Ilja Lebedev
  • $1.4, Anton W.
  • $1.34, Christiaan L.
  • $1.11, Rain C.
  • $1 (4th donation), Gonzalo C. aka “gcosta
  • $1 (3rd donation), Snoring Solutions
  • $1, Justin V.
  • $1, Vladimir D.
  • $1, Kyle Nokes aka “Nokes”
  • $1, Rye Printing Inc.
  • $1, Sam J.
  • $1, Cuneyt Hayrullah aka “Linux Mint Turkey
  • $1, Jonathan C. C.
  • $0.5, Philip Patrick Butkiewicz aka “bagnz0r

Sponsors:

Money raised in September:

* Donations: $4185.33 (186 donors)
* Sponsors: $1414.03 (130 sponsors)

http://www.linuxmint.com/donors.php
http://www.linuxmint.com/sponsors.php

Rankings:

  • Distrowatch (popularity ranking): 2079 (2nd)
  • Alexa (website ranking): 11,784th

Events:

News and summary:

  • This is the busiest period of the year, and with no advertising income generated this month we’re relying solely on your donations and sponsorships. With that in mind, I’d like to express my deepest gratitude to the 186 donors and the 130 sponsors who supported us financially. We’ve been lucky and successful since the start of this project, and this is probably the most difficult time since then, but you’ve been here for us, a fantastic community and a great network of partners, which meant we could carry on and afford to continue even without our main sources of income.
  • Although we’re in a difficult situation financially, the future looks extremely bright. Our last recorded growth was a staggering 40%. With millions of Internet users Linux Mint is the 4th most popular operating system in the world, and we’re growing much faster than our competitors. Our business model consists in applying all our focus on the product itself, on distributing it for free and on monetizing the traffic and activity you generate on the Web. It’s the same business model used by TV channels and Radio stations, the wider the audience, the more successful it is. We’re currently in the process of choosing our business partners for the search market. Which browser and search engine will be the default in Linux Mint, how much funding will they generate for us and our partners? What default experience will you get out of it? This is all being decided at the moment. The solution we previously had in place needed to evolve, both from a user and business point of view. Going forward we’ll hopefully provide you with a better experience while generating additional funding in the process.
  • Linux Mint 12 “Lisa” will be released in November this year with continued support for Gnome 2 but also with the introduction of Gnome 3. The radical changes introduced by the Gnome project split the community. At the time of releasing Linux Mint 11 we decided it was too early to adopt Gnome 3. This time around, the decision isn’t as simple. Gnome 3.2 is more mature and we can see the potential of this new desktop and use it to implement something that can look and behave better than anything based on Gnome 2. Of course, we’re starting from scratch and this process will take time and span across multiple releases. Until then, it’s important we continue to support the traditional Gnome 2 desktop. We’re likely to release two separate editions, one for Gnome 2.32 and one for Gnome 3.2. We’re also working in cooperation with the MATE project (which is a fork of Gnome 2) at the moment to see if we can make both desktops compatible in an effort to let you run both Gnome 2 (or MATE) and Gnome 3 on the same system, either in Linux Mint 12, or for the future. 

    110 Responses to “Monthly Stats – September 2011”

    1. DrTeeth Says:

      Sadly no mention of an updated KDE version of Mint :-( (.

      DrT

    2. Linux4life Says:

      I don’t understand why no advertising income has been generated. Did I miss something?

      I’m very interested in gnome 3 in 12 =D

    3. PragTob Says:

      Sounds great Clem! I am excited to see Gnome 3.2 in action but am also interested in MATE – keep up the good work guys.

      I’m just a bit worried about the search engine talk… I want to support Mint, but I also want to use Google and not bing or some other search engine (in case they offer more money).

      Anyhow congrats on being number 4 :-) You deserved it!

    4. Jeff Shepherd Says:

      I would have liked an update on the KDE version but we know announcements have already been made so I am taking this as meaning there is news on its way when its ready.

    5. Clem Says:

      @Linux4life: I can’t really comment on it as it’s ongoing at the moment and it’s not resolved yet. There’s multiple aspects to it, the websites themselves, and the search market. There’s been some confusion between the two and a misunderstanding which meant we lost two months of advertising income. This is behind us now, and what matters now is what we do for the future. Donations and sponsorships helped us cope with the loss and there’s a lot of potential on the search market for us to grow and for partners to take an interest. We’re in talks with some of them at the moment.

    6. GR Says:

      Keep up the excellent work. The recent release of Mint LMDE is the best yet! I can’t imagine having to use another OS :) Good luck on managing the Gnome transition…..your plan sounds prudent to me…

    7. Otavio Says:

      What about Mint Debian KDE/Fluxbox?

    8. Shaun Hills Says:

      Great to see the contributions are making a difference to the project. I do hope that whatever search partners you come up with aren’t too intrusive though. I donate to Mint because you guys do a great job and you deserve the support. But also because I turn off your customised search and I’d feel bad not giving anything back.

      I’d probably be less happy if I donated but still had Bing or something shoved front-and-centre in Firefox with no easy way to get rid of it. Just saying.

      Keep it up! :-D

    9. bob Says:

      What about LMDE-KDE-edition?

    10. bonefly Says:

      Once again no single word about LMDE-KDE…

    11. john Says:

      While this isn’t the proper forum, I’d like to add my voice to the chorus asking for an update on what’s up with a KDE release?

    12. Mauricio Camara Says:

      Glad to see new horizons spotting up!

      Congratulations to Clem & The Team for developing such a REMARKABLE distro!

      Gnome 3/Mate? Hmmm, looks interesting. I’ll keep an eye to it.

      Wishing you good luck and keep up the excellent work!

    13. Midas Says:

      Yeah, I am eagerly waiting what Clem and team will be making of Mint 12 and Gnome 3. Keep up the same intuïtive and troublefree userface and LinuxMint will be on the same winning side as the last years. Come on…keep going strong!!

    14. Imhoteps Says:

      Wuts with Fluxbox? Wuts with KDE?

    15. Clem Says:

      @All: About KDE/Fluxbox, the release of the new LMDE ISOs and recently of Update Pack 3 give a stable base for Boo and Kendall to work on but don’t underestimate the work they need to produce. Similar to Gnome and Xfce, these editions will be easier to maintain in the future, but migrating them can be complicated. Personally I’ll be focused on Linux Mint 12 until its release, after that I can help push these editions or even take over their maintenance as I did with Xfce, depending on Boo’s and Kendall’s availabilities.

    16. Imhoteps Says:

      P.S. Gnome2-Gnome3, Mate-Shmate… Anyhows – some day Clem WILL HAVE TO choose between `em. Sittin` on two chairs simultaneously isn`t easy enough (“can`t serve two masters”).

    17. Guy Says:

      Clem

      Great to see you are bucking the trend and sticking with GNOME 2 :) whilst at the same time supporting GNOME 3

      It is high time developers of other distros. took a note from your book, most notably Ubuntu with Canonical losing interest in what the user wants and going ahead with what they feel is best without due consideration.

      I am currently working with LMDE, Mint 9 LTS and Mint 11 (all GNOME 2) which is a hearty line up if there was any.

      I have also as a seperate project pointed LMDE to the stable repository and I am pleased to report all is working well.

      Is it possible to have a testing and stable release of LMDE ? Perhaps this is asking too much but for me it was an evenings work.

      Many thanks to you as always

    18. Rodoljub Says:

      Clem and Mint team, I suggest you work primarily on Gnome 3. Gnome 3 is the direction which should move all together.This is an opportunity to MINT to take the initiative and become even better and more popular world information operating system.

      Ubuntu makes mistakes with Unity and Mint have to lead with Gnome 3.

      This is just my humble opinion, maybe others Mint users feel the same way?

      Good luck!

    19. manny Says:

      Talking about distrowatch, Linux Mint has been loosing ground during the last 6 months, for the last week Fedora went ahead to second position and LM 3rd. Hard to say why.

      Clem, thanks for the transparency on the income aspect from the community and for maintening such a nice distro. There is one thing in my opinion neeeds improvement and this is better communication involving KDE. KDE forum is almost dead and I might suspect lots of KDE users have abandoned ship with frustration and that may have been the reason for going down on distrowatch alltogether.

      About LM12 I prefer to keep it simple for now. Better having one shell that works fine and is solid than 2 that may be problematic to create.

      Thanks again for a job well done!

    20. TomG Says:

      I agree with those who suggest that Mint’s focus be on GNOME 3. I think it will be difficult enough to give GNOME 3.2 the Mint touches that are a big reason why we love this distribution, while maintaining the quality we count on. Trying to support GNOME 2 while fewer distributions include it just seems like fighting a losing battle.

      I know there are many who are sad to see GNOME 2 be deprecated, but GNOME has decided to move forward and it’s time that the distributions do as well. There are other choices for Mint – Xfce, LXDE, and Fluxbox, and yes, KDE (which itself is much improved since 4.0).

      I wasn’t nearly as annoyed with GNOME3 as I was with Unity, and I think Linux Mint could really shine with it. Whatever the final decision, I’m sure it will be all right in the end.

      Thanks again, Clem, for keeping us informed about income and other aspects of the future direction of Linux Mint.

    21. TomG Says:

      To clarify part of my statement – there are other desktop choices Linux Mint offers for people who just don’t want to use GNOME 3.

      Mint’s main edition has a slight edge for me over the Debian Edition. Not a huge difference, but enough that I’ll stay on 12, then 13, for my main home laptop when I’m not trying other distros out.

    22. Imhoteps Says:

      @ #18
      In my opinion the most rational decision of Clem and team would be complete dropping of Ubuntu base. In the case they still develop *buntu edition though, it should be based on Gnome 3 with no doubts – time goes on, and Gnome 3 (don`t confuse it with Gnome 3 SHELL) has been chosen as Canonical`s main base, so – the choise for Mint Main base is obvious. But as I said – I don`t see the necessity of *buntu-ed Mint nomore (humble opinion).

    23. Rodoljub Says:

      Dear all, I think we all agree. We want that the main Mint edition will be current LinuxMint Debian edition and core Mint team should be focus on:

      - Mint customized Gnome 3,
      - strong hardware support (wireless drivers should be installed by default),
      - efficient update system

      The sooner we have this system Linux Mint will be world linux system No. 1.

    24. Rovanion Says:

      Please consider DuckDuckGo when selecting search partner.

      Their search engine presents the results a bit differently than google. For example if you google for an animal like duck for example, it realises that duck neccicerily isn’t a website but an animal or a cartoon figure:

      http://duckduckgo.com/?q=duck

      If you search for a company name like Swedbank, the first thing to show up is a short description of the company and the first hit is the company website along with an “Official” logo on the side.

      http://duckduckgo.com/?q=swedbank

      Also, and this may be the best selling point for some, duckduckgo does not track you. Nothing, none, nada. Unlike Google it does not create a unique profile of who you are and what you like tracking every step you take on the internet. If you want to you can also encrypt all your communication with DDG over https.

      Overall it brings very relevant results and helps the user filter through the massive amount of information that’s out there.

    25. Guy Says:

      To all who are pushing for GNOME 3. Remember this is Mint and NOT Ubuntu. Please do not try to make it go that way when the two can coexist.

      What about those like myself who are not interested in GNOME 3 and prefer the stability GNOME 2

    26. vikoadi Says:

      I see that Gnome 3.2 is awesome and much better than Gnome 3.0 and even Ubuntu’s Unity. But I think Linuxmint should stay with what desktop style its currently have (Gnome 2.X or MATE or maybe GNOME 3 modified script that looks like Gnome 2), cause that one is the strong selling point of Linuxmint.
      Keep up the good work Clem

    27. Craig10x Says:

      Gnome 2 will no longer be supported, Guy…
      Clem’s best bet i feel would be to concentrate on a “minitized” gnome 3…that means a gnome 3 base but with the mint desktop…

      A lot of people confuse gnome 3 with the gnome 3 shell…you can have gnome 3 and NOT have the shell too…and that would be the best way for mint to do for Mint 12 i think…really no point in trying to hang on to gnome 2 which won’t last much longer anyway…

      Also, as far as the comments about not having an ubuntu based main edition…no…not really a good idea as he would have to replace that version with debian stable and ubuntu editions are far more current then debian stable is…so i think that would be a “bad move”….

    28. Shelley Says:

      Gnome 3 shell should be avoided at all costs….The interface should be mintified… Interfaces drive people away from distros and unfortunately the developers are missing that important fact…

      I love Mint due to its excellent interface and support for hardware…Wireless support was great (Broadcom) and installing Katya 64 bit went smoothly on my laptop. Most of the distros including Fedora 15 does not include support for Broadcom wireless drivers…

      I have created a launcher (smb) in my desktop for accessing files stored on my home server (Scientific Linux 6.1) and it works fine. But if I disconnect my network connection and reconnect it, the launcher will not work, unless I logout and login again….Seems like a bug to me….Hope you will rectify it….

      Thanks again for a wonderful product and keep the interface point in the mind of your developers…;). Hoping to make a donation to this wonderful project….

      Shelley
      CEO
      http://www.learnerstv.com

    29. Guy Says:

      @ Craig10x

      Supported or not you cannot deny he stabilty of GNOME 2 which is good enough reason to have a specific release with the GNOME 2 Desktop Environment.’CHOICE’ afterall that is what Linux is about is it not ?

      Clem and the team are striking a good balance with Mint 12 proposing seperate releases of GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 therefore not making GNOME 3 a forced issue such as Ubuntu and Unity. The Desktop Environment on Windows XP is well outdated but many people still ‘PREFER’ to use it.

      This is the one major advantage of LMDE where the user has more ‘CONTROL’

    30. Prativasic Says:

      Its really a good decision, Clem. What I afraid is that the stability of the desktop whichever you chose finally (between gnome2 and 3). “Katya” is already non-popular than “Julia”. And I just don’t want to see “Lisa” to be the same like “Katya”. Please pay attention to the fact that people likes Mint and uses it for its “functionality” and “stability”.

      Now, its true that, with the advancement of time, Gnome 2 will flush away and Gnome3 will rise, despite of the fact that we, Mint users, are, in general, a great fan of gnome 2. So its better to start playing with gnome 3 as early as possible for the mint developers’ team. Those who love gnome 2, like me, should be happy with their “Julia” or “Isadora”. You should rather look forward and think about M13, which is (supposed to) gonna be a LTS release.

    31. Clem Says:

      @Craig: Gnome 2 + GTK+ is not being developped anymore, so you won’t see it get any new features, but it’s amongst the most stable desktop environments out there. As such, it’s not going anywhere. GTK3 and Gnome 3 are more promising technologies of course, but they’re far from reaching the same level of maturity Gnome 2 has. “Gnome 3 without Gnome-Shell” is called “Gnome Fallback Mode” and it’s nothing to do with Gnome 2.

      Gnome 2 is a stable GTK+ desktop which no longer evolves in terms of features.
      Gnome Fallback Mode is basically an adaptation of gnome-panel, which looks like Gnome 2 but is based on GTK3 and is incompatible with Bonobo and panel applets.

      So the first thing to consider is this: Panel applets need a rewrite to work in Gnome Fallback Mode. MintMenu for instance works in Gnome 2, but it doesn’t work in Gnome Fallback or in Gnome Shell. We can make it work in Gnome Fallback and we can make it work in Gnome Shell, but we then need a rewrite.
      The second thing to consider is that Gnome Fallback isn’t here to stay. The Gnome devs don’t want it there and people who like Gnome 2 don’t like it anyway. Eventually you’ll see Gnome Shell gain compatibility with less powerful graphics card and Shell will be the only way to run Gnome 3. It’s not a bad thing, since Gnome Fallback Mode, from a usability point of view, really isn’t an interesting desktop. So going forward, we’ve got Gnome3/GTK3 being actively developed and improved, we’ve got Gnome2/GTK still there for us to use but not gaining new features, and we’ve got something called Gnome Fallback Mode which is just that, a 2D fallback mode, and which is going to disappear.

    32. Imhoteps Says:

      @ Clem
      Then how Canonical`s Unity lives together and with what? GTK3? Gnome 3? Gnome 3 Fallback? How do they plan to develop symbiosis of Unity with Gnome 3? And much more important question: what the Debian`s opinion of all third-gnome stuff? I`m asking just because y`re pro and I`m afraid I don`t get some things clearly though.
      P.S. In current situation wouldn`t it be easier to migrate to KDE as main base like Suse does? Just a thought.

    33. manny Says:

      Clem, for this release do what would be the less complicated for you. You will have another 6 month to figure out for LM13 and future editions. We understand time is needed to adjust to the new tecnologies.
      Agreed with Imhoteps to develop a strong KDE edition.

    34. Craig10x Says:

      @Clem Thanks for the full explanation of the current status of both gnome 2 and 3, the fallback mode and all the other factors involved here…that does clarify things quite a bit for me and i am sure others here as well….

      I thought it would be possible to have the traditional mint style desktop even with gnome 3 for the long run but it sounds from what you are saying that gnome 3 ultimately means “shell” no matter what and that is why you are also looking to be able to keep the option of gnome 2 in some form in order to provide it…

      At least when KDE went from 3 to 4 they didn’t re-design the basic desktop format that everyone was familiar and comfortable with…it’s a shame that the gnome developers apparently don’t have that same philosophy and really aren’t giving the user much choice in the matter (in the long run, that is)…

    35. Konstigt Says:

      Moved from Ubuntu to Linux Mint 11 a few weeks ago. Been using Ubuntu since 7.04. Didn’t like Ubuntus design time which forced users to move buttons to the left, use Unity etc.

      Really hope that Linux Mint 12 will look pretty much the same as LM11 even if using Gnome 3! :)

    36. skin27 Says:

      The decision made and explained above seems sound to me. This leaves the choice open for each user. Here is once again shown that the various points of view in the community are taken seriously into consideration and that Mint takes its own course (as opposite to the radical course Ubuntu and Fedora are taking).

      We’ll see that if resources and time are still lacking in the future, that more focus is needed to keep the same quality and hard choices needs to be made (for example between base distro and supported desktop environments).

      Personally I would like a LMDE DVD edition where at login several mintified desktop enviroments can chosen (for example terminal, gnome2/mate, gnome3, kde3, kde4, unity, xfce, lxde, fluxbox to name a few). For now waiting (un)patiently for KDE version to arive…

    37. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      Clem,

      It is not clear to me…

      If GNOME 3.2 is sporting GNOME Shell….
      or will have its Linux MInt implementation of the default 2 panels…

      Please

      Clarify this for us.

    38. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      To be honest, this time of the year, I don’t know which distro to use. I’ve been on Ubuntu 11.04, but after tomorrow, it’s really time to let go of it. Definitely.

      Fedora and its lack of vision as in having a stable long term stack has been a haunting path for me to continue to use it, even more with the adoption of GNOME Shell.

      Debian, well… is “too universal” to me.

      Scientific Linux & CentOS which are all based Red Hat releases will sport all stagnant GNOME2 bugs which will never be fixed ever. They will eventually use GNOME Shell too.

      What is really remaining here is Linux Mint and its “Windows XP” vision, which many people love it.

      Arch Linux, well… maybe… but then why not Windows 7.

    39. Bryan Quigley Says:

      I strongly second Rovanion in supporting Duck Duck Go for the search provider.

      From the FAQ – Is DDG open source?
      Some of it. It’s also largely built with “FOSS”. We also give 10% of our income to FOSS. Check out this years donations.
      http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2009/03/duck-duck-go-architecture.html
      http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2010/11/help-me-start-a-foss-tithing-moveme nt.html

      Also discussions about including it in Mozilla and Ubuntu respectively (not as the default).
      http://getsatisfaction.com/mozilla/topics/include_duck_duck_go_as_option_by_default_in_search_box

      http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/28078/

    40. Guy Says:

      @ LordOfKnowledge

      I was not in any way likening Mint to XP I was merely pointing out that the new Desktop environments are not everyones choice. Therefore denying the Linux User of that choice would go against the grain of everything the Linux Community as a whole stands for !

    41. bruno Says:

      It’s great to hear that Mint will available with Gnome 2 or MATE.
      Gnome 3 doesn’t work on old computers, and I don’t understand why people want to make the desktop look like a smartphone anyway.
      I also always notice that the Debian enthusiasts are always dominating the comments here, while they are actually a small minority of the users.
      Most people want to have the ease of use of the ubuntu based edition, it would be a great mistake for Mint’s future to neglect them.

    42. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      @Guy

      I know you were not comparing XP to Mint. However, my 2 cents on this was about being that the overall feeling is the same as XP. Windows XP users will be familiar to Mint. The menu is in the same place, behaves a bit like it. That is a good thing because it is the distro who got more convertees in its lifetime on its own.

      The GNOME 2.32 and GNOME 3 Versions of Mint-next sounds good.

      But on what will the system be based on?

      And is it the Shell featuring GNOME 3 ?

      This is just not clear…. to me yet.

    43. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      Tell you what…
      Why not make a Windows-7 super bar Mint stile inside GNOME Shell. Of course, removing all panels and re-writing the notification system.
      No trolling intended.

    44. Sharrukin Says:

      I’m looking more and more at XFCE. I may just go with Xubuntu in the near future.
      What I really wonder about is Red Hat. I mean, I can’t imagine them actually using Gnome shell when version 7 is released. They are a business, they contract to a lot of big companies and much of the US government, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters. That would be awesome if redhat were to fork gnome or fund mate or something.

    45. Guy Says:

      @ bruno
      I do not consider myself to be a Debian enthusiast. I have recently converted from the Ubuntu based edition as I do not like the direction Ubuntu is taking. Aside from the installer the Debian based edition is identical but without the constraints of Ubuntu.

      It is puzzling I used to think Debian enthusiasts to be a strange breed but now I discover it was they who were right all along. Its just that since the release of LMDE regular Debian has now become usable and a viable option. The big plus is one will not be forced to run GNOME 3/Gnome Shell or anything else the user does not want

    46. ljacmi Says:

      Hoping my money went on right place as I don’t see my name on the list of donors :)

      Info, 2 days ago, for the 1st time I had to reinstall my Mint (64) because that bug with panel (http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=73643&f=55), which is annoying and makes problem if you make mistake and delete some applications and not just ignore it. Same problem is in ubuntu also, so hoping it will not happen in new (12) version because it really annoying.

      anyway just wanna give shout for good work and plz keep on like that!

    47. alex Says:

      @ Guy

      The Debian and Ubuntu editions are not identical. LMDE doesen’t support PPAs for example which I heavily depend on. Also some people prefer fixed releases instead of a rolling distribution.

      By the way, since Gnome2 is not being maintained anymore it will eventually disappear in Debian. It may just take a little longer than with other distros.

    48. rijnsma Says:

      You’re talking about ‘a bright future’. That is fantastic!!
      But don’t you think Secure Boot (UEFI/EFI) could be a problem for Linux?

    49. Guy Says:

      @ alex

      PPAs although at times useful have the potential to create instability or perhaps even system breakage particularly when their use involves facilitating major changes and multiple package upgrades.

      I am aware GNOME 2 is no longer being maintained however with LMDE the choice would be there to continue to use it by marking any related packages as ignored in the Mint Debian Update Manager which is straightforward.

      Doing this in Ubuntu would cause all sorts of problems not to mention dependency issues. If the user wanted to work with GNOME 2 in Ubuntu they would be stuck with Ubuntu 11.04

    50. Guy Says:

      Clem

      Can it be put to the vote so to see which Desktop Environment the user wants please (ie GNOME 2 or GNOME 3)

      This could go some way clarifying the situation a bit whilst at the same knowing how to tailor Mint in future releases. For me it is not an issue as I am happy with LMDE but for users of the Ubuntu based edition they could at least have a say in the matter.

    51. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      Ubuntu was released today completely based on GNOME 3 libraries, so I suspect that Clem will release 2 versions of the distro: GNOME 2.32 with updated applications. And GNOME 3.2 with Gnome Shell, having the fall-back mode as the classic Mint Menu style.

    52. joseph Says:

      thanks install lxde on a fast computer for better performance now

    53. joseph Says:

      i cant wait to upgrade memory on my moms machine it does it all

    54. Clem Says:

      Guy: Not necessarily. In fact we’ve run a test with Gnome 2.32 and Ubuntu 11.10 by upgrading Mint 11 to the new base while holding all Gnome packages. It works well and though not ideal, it’s definitely a viable solution for Mint 12. We’re also working on Mate and we’re encountering some level of success (I’m running Mate and Gnome 3 on the same 11.10 desktop right this minute for instance). Whether we ship with Mate or Gnome 2.32 itself, we’re not sure yet. We’ll pick the implementation which works best for us and offer both desktops to the users.

    55. Clem Says:

      LordOfKnowledge: mintMenu works with Gnome 2 and it will also work with Mate. In the future it could also gain compatibility with Gnome Shell. The fall-back mode is not here to stay and we’re not interested in developing anything for it. It’s possible, by making mintMenu compatible with Gnome Shell it might also become compatible with Gnome fallback, but by then it’s likely Gnome Fallback would have disappeared altogether and the only way to run Gnome 3 would by via Shell.

    56. David Says:

      What I recommend is a GNOME 3 Shell designed for Mint only. Canonical didn’t like GNOME Shell, so they made Unity. I suggest Mint makes their own shell (and make the appearance of it similar to GNOME 2).

      However, making a shell is hard and time-consuming.

    57. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      @Clem

      Oh I see, I agree on that. Let’s forget about fall-back mode. I’m not sure why MATE comes into play if GNOME 2.32 is going to be supported? Could you explain why? MATE would need the interest of the big fish out there to become more relevant than GNOME 2.32.

    58. Clem Says:

      LordOfKnowledge: Gnome 2.32 uses the same package names, paths, filenames, API names..etc.. as Gnome 3. So it creates all kinds of complications for us to provide both from the same repositories (Gnome 2 would need to be re-packaged from scratch) and it’s simply not possible for users to have both versions of Gnome installed on the same system. Mate on the other hand can be packaged easily (we’ve already taken care of it for the core desktop) and it can be run either on its own or alongside Gnome 3.

    59. Nick Says:

      Clem, some suggestions:

      1. Find a way to tweak gnome sell for better usabulity – much like how you have done with gnome 2. This is the chief complaint of gnome 3 and the chief benefit of Mint. Also, allow the user to switch to the classic gnome desktop On the gnome 3 system. This resolves alot of issues for people like myself. Gome 3.2 in classic mode is good enough for me. The old 2.x gnome isn’t much different.

      2. Don’t bundle cutomized google search. I will donate monthly if you end this practice. Lots of people find the customized search lacking and just plain annoying. Remove this and plea for more donations. They will come. Maybe add a welcome screen and allow users to opt-into the custom search and also show a donation link.

      3. Mint needs a killer theme. Somehing universal and is pretty.. Something that is moden and highly useable (functional). Something that is widely supported and most of all highly desired. Something that dosen’t require a lot of tweaking out of the box.

    60. Kc aka Dekaband Says:

      Interesting. Thank you for the update, it will be cool to see how the next few releases turn out :)

    61. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      @Clem

      Ok, Cleam. So releasing a CD with GNOME 2.32 and another CD with Shell and MATE is a bit redundant. Put the efforts on MATE & Shell on a Single desktop experience. It will be easier. You’re right about conflicts. I tried it on ArchLinux, the two of them don’t conflict.

      And if Mint comes with MATE it could be a possible great huge mega kick-start for it to become relevant among the orphaned ones (Linus).

      Perhaps you may want to bring up a “First Start” config to make the user choose:

      - GNOME Shell
      - MATE (GNOME Classic Vanilla – panels at the top & bottom)
      - MATE Mint Tea (Standard Mint Menu Layout)

    62. joshua p Says:

      would like to learn how to program and basically learn the basics in linux any suggetions or tips ?

    63. Niki Says:

      Request to remove the irritating “Applet Panel Crash” Bug…..in Mint 11…At times it is logging me out too as is happening to lot of other people too and still unresolved…

    64. Positive Thinking Says:

      Hi Clem!

      This is my 1st contribuition for that site. 1st of all I am not a computer expert, nor a regular Mint user. I am a Portuguese Market Risk Analyst interested in new technologies, in Open Source Software (which is much more than Linux!), and a guy who love to experiment new things here or there… So, excuse me my intervention here, but it is just intended in the spirit of what a community should be, to give some help, at least with a different point view from a manager.

      First of all: Business model. I think that you should be interested, if you aren’t now, in becoming a non profit organization. Of course with your business based on donations or sponsorship (including search engine market) you aren’t probably interested in being a professional enterprise giving support for the market. You just want to provide a good quality product to the community, so your business model should be directed to that focus, and nenefit from the larger benefits that states offer for that organizations. You should inclusive benefit from agreements with Universities that grant access to their knowledge and support… To not mention that as a non gouvernmental and non profit organization you’ll be likely much more safe against patent lawsuits that other commercial organizations are involved in…

      Second: Platform, Desktop environment & company: New technology is something about… Evolution! The ones who don’t evolve stagnate… Canonical’s Ubuntu and their allies understood it, and Gnome guys too!… They need to be innovative to make money to take their projects alive as well as you! Of course transitional times are difficult for many… Quite confusing… And as you really may know, they are lovely times for trolls to do their most favorite task: Trolling! All done and all said, I just think you should do your best to adapt Mint to the new era. Keep good quality and simple desktops… With the technologies of the future!… Go ahead with Gnome 3, KDE 4, and so on!… Otherwise you will certainly stagnate somewhere else, just because Gnome 3 Shell or even Ubuntu’s Unity will become stable, usable and robust… And people go with the trends!… It’s just a question of time!… Perharps few months!…

      UEFI/EFI/Windows 8 case: Apart from a Red Hat guy, it seems that no one in Linux community pays sufficient attention to the potential large and huge implications for their projects. Why are they strangely so silent?

      Accessibility: Unfortunatly, as a near blind guy, it is sad that nearly all the current Operational Systems, including Linux ones, aren’t made with those users who need full screen magnification in, at least, minimal mind. Lots of transparencies, lots of notifications and other reminders, lots of animations in screen, very small fonts, inproper contrasts between fonts and backgrounds in title bars and anywhere else, lots of things to tweak before to stay confortable to work. This is why, even on say, Windows 7, my favorite scheme is Windows XP like. I expect that your Mint should be a modern, eyecandy system… Full of new features and technologies, meanwhile respectful for the ones that have some spetial needs, make them do not have to do lots of tweaks before to start working!… With imagination it’s not impossible!

      Excuse me to be so long and have a good weekend!…

    65. tdockery97 Says:

      @Clem: So my understanding is that the relationship of MATE to Gnome 2 is equivalent to the Trinity Project in KDE? If so, then I think you should definitely focus on Gnome 3 and MATE, as MATE will continue to be supported into the future. If MATE looks good to you, then maybe it’s time to just drop Gnome 2 altogether. It would be a killer distribution if you had the choice to log in to either MATE or Gnome 3 Shell. Everyone is happy and you only have to deal with the one iso.

    66. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      @tdockery97

      That’s what I meant. Excellent.
      You can give the user 3 choices of desktop as a “First Start” configuration tool (like Fedora has). Using just one ISO.

    67. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      MATE Mint :-)

      http://www.tddistribuidora.com.br/imgproduto/CHA-PRENDA-MATE.jpg

    68. Craig Says:

      I’m wondering why future mints couldn’t have gnome 3 with extensions that allow it to be configured to the standard “mint desktop”….

      Clem mentioned Fallback mode will disappear eventually, but i would have to assume that extensions will always be around and in fact continuing to become more flexible…

    69. Bruce R Says:

      @Clem – thank you for keeping us all informed, that alone is very much appreciated.
      Although ‘support’ runs out soon, I’m sticking with Mint10, Gnome 2.32, FF3.6.23 and Scroogle Scraper for as long as possible simply because they work so well together.
      Whilst Ubuntu 11.10 seems to at last be making Unity work with more obvious access to System Settings, it still has some glitches and suffers from S L O W, ‘pregnant pause’ operation. However, their Mint-like Software Center now works well, offering easy access to the real reason for Ubuntu’s continuing popularity, their vast repository, which is used very well by othger OSs, PinguyOS, which is also worth a look for their side-stepping of Unity.
      As a safety-net I am now using Mint-11 and Pinguy on Dual-Function USBkeys, created with Mint-7′s unique Gparted and Mint-11′s almost unique StartUp Disk Creator.
      However, I look forward to finding out if the new LinuxMint-12 strategy works, so good luck !

    70. Clem Says:

      @ Positive Thinking: UEFI is dangerous if OEMs decide not to let users disable the feature, or if particular hardware/drivers require the secure boot feature to be activated. Note how this is already the case on devices like the iPhone or the Playstation… At the moment a PC is still a PC. If tomorrow there are two sorts of computers… PCs and WindowsBoxes, then users will have to be aware they’re buying dumbed-down/locked-in hardware, and those who do will be Googling the Web for tutorials on how to jailbreak their computer.

    71. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      @Craig

      My experience with extensions is that they make GNOME 3 crash as hell, or operate abnormally.

    72. tintti Says:

      Any plans of a stable Debian based Mint that is rock solid and wouldnt need tweaking with every update now and then?

    73. David Sugar Says:

      In regard to mintified gnome 3 on an ubuntu base, my short answer is yes!

      With the right existing extensions gnome 3 can already almost become usable again. Putting together a mintified gnome 3 which offers features lost from gnome 2 perhaps through extensions, and/or maybe also including mate or perhaps extending the existing g3 fallback mode with a real panel that supports applets again, would I think offer a far better and far more usable vision for Mint users of the current main releases than unity ever could be. Certainly it matches far more clearly what much of the community actually wants to have; a debian that certainly does remain friendly, even easy, for new users, but that is not also watered down or otherwise broken for those doing complex work. Much of this should also work well for lmde as Debian eventually migrates to gnome 3 also.

    74. tdockery97 Says:

      Since my post above from a couple of days ago, I’ve installed Ubuntu 11.10. With the help of gnome-tweak-tool and a few extensions I’ve been able to construct a Gnome desktop environment almost identical in look and function to the old Gnome 2. Close enough that there is nothing that I normally use missing or non-functional. So I can say that I have complete confidence that Clem will be able to build Mint 12 in a way that will keep the Gnome users satisfied. Nearly everything can be done with settings except building Mint Menu and Mint Update for GTK3. So stick around, I think we’re going to be very happy with Mint 12.

    75. Craig Says:

      BIG +1 for tdockery97 (comment 74)….I’ve seen his screenshots….looks great!

      As far as the other comment mentioned about producing a debian stable version of mint…is that really needed? If you want debian stable you can make lmde that way anyway…and debian stable is not as up to date as ubuntu base versions anyway…definitely keep the ubuntu base…

      If Clem wants to offer a seperate iso just for the debian stable every 2 years, that would ok if he wants to do that option…but i really don’t think “chucking” the ubuntu base is a wise move…

      But ubuntu base for mint main should stay permanently i feel….

    76. Jerry Says:

      Unity-Gnome 3 (shell)- 2D – Debian-Ubuntu-not Ubuntu aaagghhh! I’m fed up with all that. I tried LMDE & it’s a lot of hassle (compared to Parsix which I still run) – for a simple dude like me that is. I’m running Kubuntu 11.10 & you know what – it’s nice, it works, it’s simple, I smile when I use it. If you can make Debian as easy to use then good luck, but I doubt it, it’s for clever dudes who like fixing things. If not stick with Ubuntu (if there’s nothing better that is) & do what Mint does best – improve it, make it even nicer. I don’t think I will go back to Gnome for a long while. Bring out a KDE Ubuntu based again. Anyway that’s what I think. I like you Mint but I can’t use you at the moment (Mint 11 crashes on me), but I will certainly keep hoping. I’m sure Mint will get there.

    77. Doc Says:

      UbuntuStudio has avoided all this nonsense by simply dropping both Gnome and Unity and going Xfce. I think theirs is the more sensible solution.

    78. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      How about a pre-release of several ISOs, so the community can feel what’s the best choice for Mint 12 default. Make 3 or 4 ISOs, one with GNOME 3, other with GNOME 2, other with KDE and so on. It would be interesting to see this feedback.

    79. Alejandro Says:

      oh no!! What is ging to happen to us with 3 or more monitors?
      Gnome 3.2 can barely handle two.
      Gnome 2.3 can do it no problem!

    80. Pedro Azevedo Says:

      If at all possible, please activate the broadway backend on the GTK+ 3 binaries when you release Mint 12.

    81. McVoiceX Says:

      What I now Gnome is almost no matter, the main thing Gnome! and no Unity.

    82. afanen01 Says:

      It’s nice to see people slowly start opening up to GNOME 3 after the initial resistance.

      I tried it from day one and liked it. I usually prefer Debian based distros, but had to basically switch to Fedora because it is the only distro I find usable which includes decent Gnome 3 support (this includes gnome-shell). I Look forward to seeing Mint do good things with gnome 3.

    83. ZAP Says:

      Looking forward to November! I just tried Fedora 16 beta and GNOME 3.2 is a significant improvement. I’m going to wait for a Mint (ideally LMDE) version of GS before making the switch, but it’s now at the stage where I’d be happy to put it on my main machine.

    84. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      I assume “Lisa” will be named after the name of an Apple computer, but I think it’s too common place. Apple would never do propaganda for Linux Mint.

    85. art Says:

      I installed Mint just to get rid of Unity and Gnome 3 shell.

      And will refuse to use anything that forces some “topmenubars” “sidebars” “nowindowbuttons” and other sh*t like that on its users.

    86. Rosen Tihomirov Says:

      My opinion about Mint 12:

      Gnome 3.x is not mature enough…even simple things there are hard to accomplish. It feels more like DE for clickers and not good for advanced users (just like Unity).

      Gnome 2 is complete and clean. Please keep it around till GNOME 3 or KDE gets stable and mature enough.

      P.S. Gnome3 and Unity makes me turn around to Mint. Please keep gnome 2 around :)

    87. Positive Thinking Says:

      I agree with you on UEFI case, Clem, I know that, thank you!

      Regarding new Mint: Keep the trends of technology and find a way to not let the ones who like the old style alone. Try to do something in the middle should work! And good luck!…

    88. Chris Says:

      Thank you for your continued dedication to supporting GNOME 2. I’m posting right now from a system running GNOME 3, and the experience is actually physically painful.

      I look forward to the day when I can get some work done on GNOME 3, but today is not that day.

    89. Sayan Says:

      That’s a great decision!
      I personally don’t like GNOME Shell and share the same view as Bruno, I don’t understand why people want to make the desktop look like a smartphone or tablet pc -___-

      As GNOME 2.3x won’t be supported anymore, I don’t think we are left with other choices except get habituated with GNOME 3. So, I’ll try GNOME 3 again with Lisa though I am pretty much sure its not my cup of tea. If it can make good impression than its better otherwise I’ll switch back to GNOME 2.3x again. And as soon as it’ll vanish, I’ll switch to KDE may be. :/
      But as of now, Going with GNOME 2.3x and GNOME 3 sounds like a great idea and I think it’ll help me to make the most suitable choice.

      Thanks for everything Clem and team. :)

    90. promotional gifts Says:

      Keep up the good Mint work I am moving forward with my Linux programming

    91. Craig Says:

      If mate will allow you to do one version and have both gnome 3 and gnome 2 (in the form of mate) it probably would be the best way to go…this way, the user would have the choice to log in to one or the other…and could experiment to see if he can get use to gnome 3 environment…

      just a shame that at the present time you can just go straight gnome 3 but have it with the conventional mint desktop….this way you get the advantage of the new gnome but without the unity/gnome3 shell style of doing things…

      Ideally, i guess would be straight gnome 3 but with the user’s option to log in to standard mint desktop OR gnome 3 shell…

      That way, mint would be attractive to both “shell fans” (lol) and “mint desk top” fans as well…

      It’s a confusing time isn’t it! (lol)….

    92. Craig Says:

      Although, let me just say (final comment…lol) is i think the ideal for me and probably the majority of mint users would be simply this:

      Gnome 3 underneath with: Classic Mint Desktop

      That would be the true IDEAL going forward!!!

    93. TomANJ Says:

      Regarding Gnome 3. Mint is in a great position right now to continue to distinguish itself as one of the best, if not the best Linux distributions. I have been using Linux for over a year now and have stuck with LMDE, usually with one of the “box” desktops. Unity is too restricted and confining. Forcing someone to use something goes against the choices Linux makes available to a computer user. After using some other distros versions of Gnome 3, it’s obvious that this combination of a mouse/keyboard, and or smartphone/touchscreen style interface, is the area where development should be concentrated. A Gnome 3 LMDE version would be not only a modern, fast, and cutting edge system, but would also advance the development of Gnome 3 and Mint, because of the growing user base, and knowledgeable community.

    94. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      Craig,

      Unless FALLBACK MODE is compiz’ed and have mint menu, it will be useless. Otherwise it could be the solution!

    95. Craig Says:

      @LordOfKnowledge: yep!
      It does sound (from Clem) that with gnome 3.2 and the new extensions that will be offered through them that such customization will be possible with the mint desktop in mind…that would be great…

    96. Robert Says:

      If you’re looking for a default search engine I suggest Startpage.
      https://www.startpage.com
      Startpage is powered by Ixquick.
      The only search engine that does not record your IP address.

      Details: https://www.startpage.com/eng/protect-privacy.html

    97. x2 Says:

      Gnome 3 and Unity are no go.
      E.g. X220 with external monitor or output to telly.. not working.

    98. Clem Says:

      LordOfKnowledge: Our codenames follow 3 rules, they follow each others alphabetically (L is the 12th letter in the alphabet), they’re female first names and they end with an “a”. If anything, the reference to Apple would be an argument against, but to be honest it’s irrelevant. There’s a particular Lisa this release is dedicated to and it was named after her.

    99. Craig Says:

      Interesting note: already there’s a new remix of ubuntu 11.10 with gnome shell instead of unity with option for classic gnome desktop (which i would imagine could probably be customized to mint desktop as well?)….
      Might find it interesting reading, Clem…

      Just came out a few days ago…and source code is also available for it…
      works on top of gnome 3.2….I guess Clem was right… Gnome 3.2 opens itself up for lots of customization!

      http://news.softpedia.com/news/Introducing-Ubuntu-11-10-Without-Unity-228425.shtml

    100. BatterUp Says:

      Very sorry to hear you are going to eventually move to Gnome 3.

      Today I am replacing Ubuntu with Mint as my main OS, because I installed Ubuntu 11.10 a few days ago (and gnome-shell) and finally understand what everyone is complaining about…
      Gnome 3 is A TABLET OS! It’s not suitable for desktops – functionality is drastically reduced.

      I will stay with Mint until it forces me to use Gnome 3, then I’ll have to find something else.

    101. Craig Says:

      @BatterUp….Gnome 3 doesn’t automatically have to mean either shell or unity…in fact, Clem had just mentioned to a poster in the newer blog announcement on this website that he is actively working on extensions for Gnome 3.2 for Mint 12 which means he will be customizing Gnome 3.2 for the traditional Linux Mint menu…so you can relax now…

    102. Craig Says:

      As with many, you confuse gnome 3 with shell and unity…what many are not aware of is that flexible extensions have become available that allow developer to make his desktop environtment whatever he chooses…they are not confined to shell or unity exclusively in order to run gnome 3….

      In Ubuntu’s case…Unity was their choice…even though i think they know many do not like it…This is mint…it does not operate like ubuntu…

    103. LordOfKnowledge Says:

      @Craig

      Well, thanks for the Lisa explanation. I didn’t know that. In the beginning it sounded as a tribute to Steve Jobs.

      Let GNOME 3 Fall Back Mode Compiz-sized with Mint Menu on top of it, and the addition of MATE as a secondary option in one single ISO will conquer many hearts, I am sure about this.

      MATE may even get its deserved audience and actually enlarge Linux Mint userbase. While others may try GNOME 3 Fall Back Mode Mintified or turn it off to use as GNOME Shell.

      No conflicts, same ISO, and heading for the stardom, and of course, #1 on distrowatch.com.

    104. Craig Says:

      Actually, it might be even better then that…the impression i am getting is that Clem is actually talking about “extensions” and that (i believe) is not referring to “mate gnome 2 fork project” but rather using “extensions” that are now available in this newest gnome 3.2 that Ubuntu 11.10 is featuring, which allows a developer to “customize” the desktop to whatever he would like…

      That would mean that you can make it into the mint desktop we are familiar with and no gnome shell or unity interface at all!

      If that is the case, then Mint 12 would then have Gnome 3.2 underneath it, with the actual desktop environment being the good old familiar MINT DESKTOP with just one panel on bottom and mint menu…as we have always known it…

      Just wanted to clarify (unless i am misreading his comments to that poster on the other announcement page)…but he did mention extensions…i do know that…and that isn’t referring to “mate”…

      That is why i said it would be the “best of both worlds”…

    105. David Sugar Says:

      On the one hand we should not be afraid to embrace the future. I think in that respect maintaining gnome 2, or forking it like mate, is to me actually wasted time. I would much rather rely on and use an active and continuing project like xfce4 that is still advancing and has a future than an abandoned one simply continuing. For those who liked compiz, xfce4 also does work well with compiz.

      That being said, and in respect to embracing the future, clearly in respect to gtk3 desktops, NEITHER unity, nor gnome 3 as presented, “are” the future. Some might argue KDE can be, and I do think it is an excellent project, but I never was personally happy with using KDE. It is entirely a matter of personal preference and the fact that most of the applications I use day to day are gtk based or otherwise gnome derived. Oddly enough I do far prefer writing qt apps to gtk ones. If KDE divides their framework into components that work more stand-alone with qt as they propose for KDE 5, I likely would write qt apps that use them, but I don’t see myself using KDE right now.

      One thing that is clear is that despite the very myopic vision of gnome, gnome 3 at least is extendable in ways that one can fix the clearly broken aspects. It has a future I feel specifically because the community can relatively easily fix it’s otherwise defective design, and there are many now interested in doing so. I think it is very possible with some time and effort Clem (and others) will be able to come up with a gtk3/gnome 3 based environment that both satisfies prior gnome 2 users, and also offers those new possibilities that gnome 3 does provide. Unity by contrast I think both has a thoroughly broken design and does not offer this essential flexibility, and that is why I think it will continue to remain a dead end. I look forward to seeing what Clem comes up with.

    106. Dude Says:

      If you’re going to try to tame Gnome 3 I wish you the best of luck. I know that if anyone can make it usable, the Linux Mint team can, but it will be no easy task by any means, and I guess now would be a good time to thank you in advance for sacrificing your sanity while you’re still able to read this.

      I think even Gnome 3 without the shell will bring its own set of challenges. For instance, although Unity doesn’t use Gnome shell, it is still slower on 11.10 than it is on 11.04, not just by my own experience, but reported by several others as well. And on my machine, whether I’m using Unity, Gnome 3 shell, or even Classic (no effects) the whole thing runs heavier than a herd of elephants and the login sound stutters so bad it triggers flashbacks of the TV show Max Headroom. Also, the ability to add a printer from the Gnome Control Center has been neutered thanks to a Gnome patch that added a Fedora specific dependency (FirewallD) and has yet to be fixed. And while this issue itself is easily worked around, it does leave one to question the level of quality control used and wonder what other “wonderful” surprises are waiting to be discovered at the least convenient moment.

      I have been relegated to using XFCE, a DE once considered something for low end machines because I don’t have the alien technology required to run the superbloat of Gnome 3 or even KDE, yet the same machine runs Windows 7 x64 flawlessly, even with all the eye candy turned on.

      So again, thank you for sacrificing your sanity. Hopefully when each of you are found rocking gently back and forth and babbling incoherently, you will receive the best care possible.

    107. Stefan Says:

      “oh no!! What is going to happen to us with 3 or more monitors?
      Gnome 3.2 can barely handle two.
      Gnome 2.3 can do it no problem!” Alejandro said

      I don’t think that more that 0.00001% of people using Mint actually have 3 monitors. That’s a HUGE minority. BTW, that 0.00001% is probably only you!

    108. Shabbir M. Says:

      Moving with Ubuntu is great challenge… I have been trying Ubuntu 11.04 ( also Katya ) and recently Ubuntu 11.10, both are just eye candy with very little stability. I want Linux mint to give more attention on LMDE which is also facing issues with upstream repos and errors in installation of lot many application…

      Please some time freeze the updates for LMDE and release them when they are stable enough.

      At This movement, I don’t even have one good option for my main linux OS, as all are having some or other stability or driver problems.

    109. Lux Says:

      Hi, I’m using LMDE (with KDE Plasma(standard), and are looking foreward to see the LM KDE switching back to the roots!) and got the question when a new update is about to be released? I’m a bit courious about the fakt that i didn’t find much information about LMDE development like a roadmap, news of the week or so… just some lines
      to get a bit of information how the project continous … then i can better decide on which cases i can use the lmde.
      (when i check for updates there arent any for some weeks, is that ok or is it a bug?).

      Lux

    110. Lux Says:

      P.S.

      … I’m planing to install LMDE with KDE on my mothers and aunts system,… and for that it would be helpfull for me to see a bit more further into the future of the distro…


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