Isadora KDE Development Report

Clem found a couple of bugs in the last dev-ISO. One was a plymouth text theme bug and another was a mint4win (Wubi) bug. The mint4win bug is the one causing issues. Do we leave it for now, fix it now or remove it? Clem is working on mint4win to find a fix. I have build a new ISO but it includes the broken mint4win, but I will wait for direction from Clem before uploading it or another version for developer testing.
With the amount of testing growing due to more Linux Mint versions and more pre-defined tests, Clem is talking about including 10 more testers in the developer team to speed up testing and reliability. This will not happen until the next Linux Mint release and the details of how or who will be chosen has not been decided yet. I am sure Clem will post more details about this in the not too distant future.

49 comments

  1. funny, I was playing around with new RSS feed readers and this popped up.

    Anyway, I’d say focus on the plymouth bug, the mint4win bug would take a while to stomp out. I personally don’t use it, but I can see benefits for keeping it, however if I were to choose, mint4win isn’t really going to make or break any numbers significantly.

    How about a set timer for trying to fix it, like if you don’t have an idea on what is causing it in 2 days, then drop it.
    Or the cause was found but a fix wasn’t found by a week, it would probably not be worth all the trouble to include.
    And push for a release with it (or at least in the RC, and if it fixed before final release, include it), to those anticipating it so much.

    Of course, You would need to refer back to Clem about the principles of Mint on that, since this would be in the grey area of keeping a good quality distro over release time.
    And I’m not too sure about your policies about changing RC build from Final that much, since this would end up a non-beta tested feature.

  2. I don’t need Wubi at all. Perhaps a RC without Wubi would be nice until the final version is finished, if it’s going to take a long time.

    Hang on: We can wait. We have already gotten Isadora main!

  3. Really hope the mint4win bug is fixed for the final release, as that’s currently my preferred method of installation :-/

  4. I appreciate the great care Clem takes in testing. Even though I am anxious to try out the distro, I agree with the philosophy that something worth doing is something worth doing right. I think it is best to have have a complete, hopefully bug free product. (It is not that big a deal for me to check your site 50 times a day for a bit longer…) πŸ˜‰

  5. Personally, I don’t think we should even bother with Mint4win, it shouldn’t be a necessity. Personally I consider it an annoyance. I don’t use windows, I don’t plan on using such a crappy piece of software, plus it hinders giving users the full experience of linux’s true speed. (so it’s like a demo running at 1/2 speed).

    I think the distro is complete without Mint4Win, it’s just an add-on for windows users, has nothing to do with the Linux community.

    The installer can shrink partitions with they want a dual boot. Focus on plymouth then just release it, I and many others could care less about mint4win.

  6. Personally, I don’t think we should even bother with Mint4win, it shouldn’t be a necessity. Personally I consider it an annoyance. I don’t use windows, I don’t plan on using such a crappy piece of software, plus it hinders giving users the full experience of linux’s true speed. (so it’s like a demo running at 1/2 speed).

    I think the distro is complete without Mint4Win, it’s just an add-on for windows users, has nothing to do with the Linux community.

    The installer can shrink partitions with they want a dual boot. Focus on plymouth then just release it, I and many others could care less about mint4win.

  7. Are other distros using Wubi or some version of it? How crucial is it’s inclusion to the goals of Mint at this particular time?

    If the Wubi bugs are taking this long to resolve, remove Wubi and fix it in Mint 10. I think overall it may be better to get Mint 9 KDE out the door and have people using it and responding to its features. I loved Mint 8. If I’m really concerned about getting Windows users to appreciate a great version of Linux, dual booting has always worked well for me.

    Let’s get at Mint 9 KDE as soon as feasible. My 2 cents. Good wishes for success. John

  8. I do use a dual boot with Win 7, but Mint4Win is not really a necessity for me…I would say just fix the Plymouth and worry about the other later. I’ve been a Windows user for a long time, but I’ve also been using Mint more often than not….I’m kinda getting tired of Windows, it runs so slow and take forever to load something. Fix Plymouth for now and release RC, we’ll worry about Mint4Win later….cheers

  9. I say release it now as is. A RC is a RC.

    Windows-related sh!t should be the LAST thing keeping kmint fans waiting.

    Enough is enough.

    Please let it go.

  10. You guys are heroes for taking the time to find and iron out these bugs. It’s like Ubuntu with a better layout and software selection plus all the remaining bugs ironed out!

    Anyhow, while mint4win is important to many new users, I do wonder how many new users would be using the KDE version. I hope not many. Still, it seems like it would be worth fixing if it’s not going to take *too* long.

  11. I think that mint4win is a useful tool tough not required for the RC. It’s totally worth it to spend time on it but don’t push back the release date of the RC.

    Awesome job!
    Axel

  12. Thanks for the commitment to quality guys. Helena KDE gets me by fine while checking the blog 10 times a day, eagerly awaiting the Isadora KDE RC.

  13. I personally don’t care about mint4win because I have totally skipped Microsoft 6-7 years ago. Plymouth is a troublemaker I think. I think Plymouth also causes all the serious start-up problems I have with Mint9 Gnome on my Acer Aspire One. A fix for KDE perhaps could help the Gnome edition also?

  14. Firstly, I admire the commitment to thorough testing and release quality.

    However, this is to be a release candidate is it not?

    Are either the “plymouth text theme” or “mint4win”, critical show stoppers?

    Honestly do these two bugs justify the delay in putting out a release candidate?

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  16. Drop Mint4win if needed, is it really needed that bad? Easier I would think to try out a LiveCD than install it with Wubi. Or simply install it to the drive itself. Although I did find Wubi easier to delete if I didn’t go with Linux, still not worth having.

    Also I have noticed these KDE blog updates don’t seem to be appearing on the front page for me, do I have do anything special or what? I am a registered user here in the forums.

    Thanks

  17. “Schalken Says:
    Anyhow, while mint4win is important to many new users, I do wonder how many new users would be using the KDE version. I hope not many. Still, it seems like it would be worth fixing if it’s not going to take *too* long.”

    Is there something wrong with KDE for new users (serious question, I have no idea)?

  18. I think it’s definatly worth fixing, mint4win is a really good way to gain new users, who don’t want to struggle with partitioning their hard drive. A LiveCD simply can’t compete with a fully installed system.
    But it shouldn’t stall the RC release any further.

  19. i don’t think mint4win is at all important, i can see why it would be really useful, if it didnt make the distro run SO SLOW! it’s basically completely useless for that one reason, who wants an OS that is running slower than it normally can. i would just release the RC and MAYBE fix the plymouth bug unless all it is doing is making something look weird. just my opinion though πŸ˜‰

  20. I almost was turned off to linux because I used wubi and Ubuntu was almost as slow as Windows…it didn’t seem worth the effort to me. Wubi/Mint4Win don’t show newer users how fast Linux really is. It’s a hindrance to the distro. If they want to have it for the main release, I can see Clem wanting to do that, but please leave it out of the community editions…It takes up room on the ISO anyways. Make Mint4win KDE a separate thing.

  21. I agree, wubi/mint4win just gives new users a bad first impression. It certainly runs much better when installed properly.
    I’d say it does more harm than good there and better shouldn’t be included.
    If there’s even some nasty bug in it that keeps you from releasing, all the more reason to leave it out.

  22. I think that there should be two separate KDE editions. One with Wubi, one without it. That way I wouldn’t have to download the extra space.

  23. I currently use Wubi in my desktop and runs perfectly. It lets me try new releases and or delete if necessary and rather easily. Very important for new users.

  24. @ Keljaden

    You are missing the point with mint4win although I don’t use it myself.

    mint4win (as is Wubi) intended for encouraging the those curious about Linux Mint to install the distro. without physically partitioning their Hard Drive therefore making it easily removable within the Windows control panel using Add/Remove.

    Whether you choose to work with with Windows or not is beside the point.

    On to things more pressing.Can we please have an official fix for the Plymouth/Nvidia resolution bug. I work with Linx Mint 9 GNOME and although Plymouth only appears momentarily I do find it a little irritating. I know there are unofficial workarounds but can we have a proper fix PLEASE that offers wide screen resolutions (in my case 1440×900)

    Otherwise as is usual Mint keeps going from strength to strengh πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  25. Interesting. The Wubi caused problems all the time, and almost every releases of Ubuntu, etc. came out with problems with Wubi. I think, the developers of Wubi must be rewrite the whole program from the basis. It causes problems all the time.

  26. On to things more pressing.Can we please have an official fix for the Plymouth/Nvidia resolution bug. I work with Linx Mint 9 GNOME and although Plymouth only appears momentarily I do find it a little irritating. I know there are unofficial workarounds but can we have a proper fix PLEASE that offers wide screen resolutions (in my case 1440Γ—900)

    Agreed, This was very annoying in kubuntu 10.04. In fact it is why I decided to try kmint 8.
    Looking forward to 9!!

  27. Wubi is a must, Its the only reason why i use linux mint9.. I no if i break it(Which iv done 3 times), its a simple as Remove app from windows…

    Besides, i wouldnt wanna compromise my already solid windows 7 installation…

    If anything… 1080p vids play better in linux vlc than it does on win7 vlc haha

    Long live wubi! every distro should include it.

  28. Ok, here is a pro for mint4win: HP-Notebooks can’t be used without (or only if you are doing hard and dangerous tricks on the system). I think even though you want to use mint only as a second system (does anybody?), you could be in the need of mint4win. As Mint is also going to be more and more part of Windowdsusersystems, there is no reason to stop on it. You are doing a great work, please keep on doing so. That is the only way to challenge MS and Apple.

  29. Counterpoint: I rather run Win 7 64 through Virtual Box because I want Linux RAID capability and I don’t know if I can/ want to do RAID in a dual-boot scenario.
    Consider the long-term goals of Linux/Windows compatibility/usability.
    If its going to be a problem in future releases maybe better to fork it once and for all. Let the Windows wannabe’s wait for their own “special” distro!

  30. Well, I’ve tried dozens of “Live CD”. They all seem to have had problems in one way or another. I finally gave Mint 9 a try and I’ve never looked back. I have a complete install on my desktop and also installed it on my Acer Aspire One Netbook. They both are running fantastic. I want to say Thanks to the Mint Team for producing such a great Linux Distro and PlEASE…. Keep up the great work. I’m no longer a prisoner of the “Windows” Compound.

    Registered Linux User #511702

  31. Given that a Release Candidate is intended to be the final version in its public review, I say drop this version as-is in the Testing directory with a Beta label, not Release Candidate. This will allow the community to test all the other aspects of the distro while Boo & Clem iron out the Mint4Win. Once accomplished, then we get the Release Candidate out the door.

    “Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.”
    — Linus’ Law

  32. I never like Wubi… it just gives a bad first impression of Linux as it does show its full potential.
    I would personally concentrate on more important bugs…

  33. Mint4Win should be place lower down on the priority list, Linux specific issues should come first.

    Why anyone would want to run Linux within Win7 is beyond me, we’re Linux here, if you want to run Win7 (applications) it should be under a Linux host environment.

  34. While I run Gnome waiting for KDE, there is wailing and gnashing of teeth, due to Gnome pain. I can not take much more pain, please hurry KDE. Oh the humanity of it all. (/sarcasm). Can you guess which version I like better?

  35. Man, it’s so difficult to be patient, certainly when the expectations are so high … πŸ™‚
    But don’t get me wrong. I want to give Boo, Clem and the others all the time they need to deliver the necessary quality. And I admire their them for all the hard work they do. So I certainly don’t want to put unnecessary pressure on them.
    But that doesn’t make it any easier for us to wait for this release …
    πŸ˜‰

  36. What’s with all the Mint4Win bashing? It’s an invaluable tool, and used by a lot of people. Just because many of you don’t use it, and look as it as a shortcut to a “real” installation of Mint, there are several circumstances that really do justify its use. Installing Linux on a borrowed or shared computer is one such instance.

    Another legitmate reason is the inability to free up enough usable space for more partitions. Although I have Mint installed on all my PC’s, on one laptop I needed to use Mint4Win because the Windows Vista partition couldn’t be shrunk down far enough to free up enough room. Most PC’s with Windows pre-installed come with one large Windows partition (plus the recovery partition). Windows Vista (and probably Windows 7) puts unmovable system files like the MFT wherever it wants, often in the second half of the drive. Sometimes you can not reduce the Windows partition enough to create both a shared data partition and room for Linux. My laptop’s 70GB Windows partition (on an 80GB) drive couldn’t be reduced below 55GB because of the MFT placed at that point. Yes, there are ways to force it, but they run the risk of making the partition unusable. It’s easier, and safer, to simply install Mint within the Windows partition and use the freed area for data. I’ve encountered this same situation on the PC’s of several friends – actually, on every Vista PC I checked. Running a defrag program graphically displays the location of the system files.

  37. Before the release of mint KDE I took tour of the different distros per ranking list on distrowatch. I went through zorin os, fedora kde, PCLos gnome, opensuse, ultimate edition. But everywhere I felt something was missing. None of them were as complete as mint. Now back on mint again.

    Just a small doubt which version of KDE will be implemented in mint 9

  38. seriously where is the release of all these how is this a long term release if you wait a year

  39. Hey Boo,
    can we please have an update on what’s happening at the moment? Your last update is more than a week old and lots of exciting things can happen in a week πŸ˜‰

  40. QUOTE:
    # Travelinroz Says:
    June 17th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    I appreciate the great care Clem takes in testing. Even though I am anxious to try out the distro, I agree with the philosophy that something worth doing is something worth doing right.END QUOTE

    Amen to this. If I wanted bugs, I’d be using Kubuntu.

  41. Hi,

    I’ve never used the wubi installer, so may not understand what it is fully, or how it works. But if this is just an alternate installer that allows mint to be installed in an image on a windows system, could it not be separated into a standalone download? That way, there is more space on the cd/dvd for other programs, it can be updated/developed independently from mint, and won’t hold up the release of mint 9. Would it not be possible to then share the wubi installer with other distros, even if only mint gnome?

  42. @ joe

    Even if there were an extended wait for the release it will be worth the wait.

    It is in my opinion Ubuntu 10.04 LTS was released too soon however most bugs have now been fixed (apart from the annoying Plymouth/Nvidia one) which has been passed on to Linux Mint 9 GNOME at least. I can overlook it but for the new user the initial appearance is poor, albeit brief.

    To all those that dis mint4win/Wubi for many it is the perfect introduction to Linux as not everyone like me likes running from a LiveCD/DVD

    In the meantime check out Fedora Remix on LiveDVD which has elements of Mint and is frankly awesome
    http://fcoremix.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/lucky-13/
    http://iso.linux.hr/community-fedora-remix/

    In the meantime excersise some patience and give the developers a break

  43. Hi Clem,I think you should leave Wubi (Mint4Win)if someone wants to try Linux they can do that by using a live CD. mint4win is a pain anyways it takes hours to install and it gives linux a bad name because it pretty slow and if someone wants to have linux with Windows they should dualboot or go with jolicloud (on netbbbok) at least.
    My suggestion is please do away with mint4win for now

    thank you

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